 Poster: A snowHead
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Italy reports 631 deaths out of 10,149 cases and possibly a further 800+ ICU cases.
Sounds rather serious for something that only kills people who have underlying conditions. Are we to believe around 10% of Italians have these underlying health conditions and out of these 10% they’ve all ended up dying or in ICU?
Of course we’ll never know, but it would be interesting to know they true numbers that have been infected. I suspect in Italy they are probably getting close to 7 figures. Again, only a guess.
I had a dry cough and some very very minor chest tightness/pain as part of a minor cold I had 2 weeks or so ago. Should I have gone to be tested? (I had no fever). In hindsight maybe I should? But if everyone with a cold turned up to be tested how would the health service cope with serious cases?
The whole thing is a bit of a nightmare and in this case in my opinion the cure is worse than the disease itself. The economic ramifications will be huge and no doubt cause many many deaths as a knock on effect.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Bunches, Oh it's on FB wow must be true then.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@queenie pretty please, the controls were not in place on Saturday. We were in arrivals with the Norwegian flight
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 10-03-20 21:00; edited 1 time in total
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| Bodeswell wrote: |
| @Bunches, is the NHS intensive care registrar prone to misspelling major international regions such as “Lumbardy”? Or was it a one off? |
Was that what shocked you most about that post? FFS! :/
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
was kept schtum by authorities.
Then the press get hold of it, label it and we are off.
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This is the daftest thing I've read yet. This all started in China where despite the famously authoritarian authorities wanting to keep schtum when the medics started to raise the alarm, it soon went viral (literally). |
I think there are times when lack of democracy and transparency can actually help a situation.
It's sometimes known as 'Grizzly Bear' management after an incident when a Grizzly Bear wandering into a school playground. The headteacher unlocked a cabinet, took out a gun and shot it dead. No meetings, no debate, no checking with policies and protocols......
I find the different attitudes on here quite interesting.. I trade at events, most cancelled and my business has pretty much folded. I did my last one in Dublin at the weekend. There was huge debate about whether St Patrick's day should been cancelled. It's worth 2 billion to the economy. It was cancelled not for the young, who go out and party but for the health service which would not cope with a spike in transmission in cases.
Sometimes we have to put others in front of our own needs.
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| dazman wrote: |
All I want to know is how long the bars are gonna be closed in Ischgl??
Priorities and all that. |
Good man glad to see you have your priorities right. A daily dose of stroh rum should keep all known bugs away.
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| Bodeswell wrote: |
| @Bunches, is the NHS intensive care registrar prone to misspelling major international regions such as “Lumbardy”? Or was it a one off? |
I thought he must have a back problem
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@cameronphillips2000, On behalf of the bear, I wish to protest at the lack of contingency planning and resultant alternative solution-focussed non-lethal outcomes.
In all seriousness, I hope that you can manage to ride this out and pick things up again. It has all collapsed so quickly for so many, business- and financially-wise 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bodeswell wrote: |
| @munich_irish, everything in the stats is since they gave it a name and started testing. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s just a hunch that I accept can’t be proved. People are ill here all the time with all sorts of sh** and life goes on. TB is a serious problem in some Boroughs. |
You may be posting on the wrong site Bodeswell, it's not conspiracy theorists central 
You're better heading for alt-right survivalist and moon landing denials as a start point. Probably be more valued there.
Or maybe, Hitler used to work in my local car wash.
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
was kept schtum by authorities.
Then the press get hold of it, label it and we are off.
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This is the daftest thing I've read yet. This all started in China where despite the famously authoritarian authorities wanting to keep schtum when the medics started to raise the alarm, it soon went viral (literally). |
I think there are times when lack of democracy and transparency can actually help a situation.
It's sometimes known as 'Grizzly Bear' management after an incident when a Grizzly Bear wandering into a school playground. The headteacher unlocked a cabinet, took out a gun and shot it dead. No meetings, no debate, no checking with policies and protocols......
I find the different attitudes on here quite interesting.. I trade at events, most cancelled and my business has pretty much folded. I did my last one in Dublin at the weekend. There was huge debate about whether St Patrick's day should been cancelled. It's worth 2 billion to the economy. It was cancelled not for the young, who go out and party but for the health service which would not cope with a spike in transmission in cases.
Sometimes we have to put others in front of our own needs. |
Damn! I’m really sorry to hear this. But I ‘get’ the decision taken. Won’t know the true impact of all of this until we come out the other side. I hope
It’s swift and all works out for the greater good in the end
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@ski3, I’ll keep that in mind mate, though judging by the amount of astroturfing and trolling in here, I’m not totally buying the being on the wrong site bit 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Bunches, I was just about to post the same excerpt that you did. This is my line of work. Believe me this is not what happens every year in our hospitals when we have deaths from seasonal flu. This is the onslaught that we are facing in the next few days/weeks.
Orthoplods looking after ventilated patients with crib sheet of what to do is not usual practice I can assure you.
Just to depress you further Italy has twice as many ICU beds per 100K population than we have in the UK!
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| jw83113 wrote: |
| dazman wrote: |
All I want to know is how long the bars are gonna be closed in Ischgl??
Priorities and all that. |
Good man glad to see you have your priorities right. A daily dose of stroh rum should keep all known bugs away. |
And for someone who’s been on the floor of Kitzloch I can attest to that....one mans Stroh 80% is another mans hand sanitiser.
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You know it makes sense.
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.[/quote]Exactly right. And for that reason I wouldn't seek to impose my decision-making on anyone else, and why I resent other people imposing their decision-making on me.[/quote]
EXACTLY WRONG.
Going to regions with a higher penetration of Corona virus (than your home region) poses a proportionately higher health risk (at a minimum) to yourself, your family, your colleagues and everybody you come into contact with (& who comes into contact with them) subsequently.
If you're coming back to a small uninfected town in the UK, from Italy, or a badly infected area of France say, even after a flight from near one of those regions, you're putting the whole town at risk through your actions.
If you're young & fit, you're unlikely to perish yourself, but everyone who is old or immuno suppressed, who subsequently contracts the disease because of your ignorant actions is in serious danger of death.......
The grim fact is that some people's decision making about their travel, say, is seriously impacting on other people's health risks. It's akin to passive smoking, except far more acute, accelerated, focused & deadly in the short term. So, it's not about 'imposing decision making on anyone else', it's actually about ensuring that their decision making & consequent actions don't impose actual damage to your or your loved one's health.... and perhaps cost them their life.....
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 10-03-20 23:01; edited 3 times in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Exactly right. And for that reason I wouldn't seek to impose my decision-making on anyone else, and why I resent other people imposing their decision-making on me.[/quote]
EXACTLY WRONG.
Hoing to regions with a higher penetration of Corona virus (than your home region) poses at a minimum a proportionately higher health risk to yourself and every body you come into contact with while you're in the infectious stage with the disease.
If you're coming back to a small uninfected town in the UK, you're putting the whole town at risk.
If you're young & fit, you're unlikely to perish yourself, but everyone who is old or immuno suppressed, who contracts the disease because of your ignorant actions is in serious danger...
The fact is that other's decision making is impacting on other's health risks. It's akin to passive smoking, except far more acute & deadly in the short term. So, it's not about 'imposing any decision making on anyone else', it's actually about ensuring, their decisions don't impose actual danger on your health....[/quote]
You could also argue that by simply leaving the house to do anything or go anywhere you are putting others at risk.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Germany has only reported 2 deaths from 1,458 cases, seems to be big differences in deaths in each country with Italy & China having a lot higher rates than others . Scandinavian countries not having any deaths yet at all but with quite high number of cases .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snowxxx wrote: |
| Germany has only reported 2 deaths from 1,458 cases, seems to be big differences in deaths in each country with Italy & China having a lot higher rates than others . Scandinavian countries not having any deaths yet at all but with quite high number of cases . |
It is a difficult comparison to make because we don't know if the testing/reporting of cases is uniform throughout Europe let alone comparing with the rest of the world.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Flew home on Monday. München airport and the Lufthansa lounge eerily quiet for 10am on a Monday. Plane half full.
A similar experience yesterday at Changi. The scheduled A380 had been replaced by a 777, and less than half full. Maybe 20 or 30 people in the lounge, which is normally very full.
Our taxi driver said he was going home after dropping us off - not enough work to stay out.
People and businesses are hurting badly.
I wonder what sort of crowd the Australian GP will draw this weekend? Did Ferrari have to be placed into quarantine before being allowed into Albert Park? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
People and businesses are hurting badly.
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Uber drivers in trouble. They need to connect with delivery companies.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| alasdair.graham wrote: |
You could also argue that by simply leaving the house to do anything or go anywhere you are putting others at risk. |
Could you!?
There will probably be a time in controlling the proliferation of this disease that (regions of) the UK will be put into shut down, just like regions of Italy are now, and China previously. And other countries will also have take similar action.
However, all we really know now is that there are clearly identifiable parts of Europe that are far more infected than the UK is currently, and that it is incumbent on us all not to unnecessarily imperil our own, or other's, health (I.e. people we come into contact with) by travelling to those regions (or via nearby airports) unnecessarily......
Later, imho, down the road with this, we'll all have to work from home for over a month or so.
By doing these minimally disruptive things, we can slow the proliferation of the disease among the general population, and better enable the health services to manage it over a longer period (I.e. flatten the (rate of infection) curve), so that critically ill patients can get better care, and hence less people die from this infectious disease....
P.s. with an infectious disease pandemic like this, it is incumbent on everyone to reduce their likelihood of getting infected. (e.g. washing hands, observing personal germ hygiene, limiting unnecessary travel to infected areas, and adhering to public health guidelines, at a minimum). This will save people's health and lives.....
So, what's the debate here!?!  
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 10-03-20 23:43; edited 2 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| snowxxx wrote: |
| Germany has only reported 2 deaths from 1,458 cases, seems to be big differences in deaths in each country with Italy & China having a lot higher rates than others . Scandinavian countries not having any deaths yet at all but with quite high number of cases . |
It takes people 2-3 weeks to die so deaths lag behind diagnoses, according to stage of outbreak a jurisdiction is at
Other factors
-The true denominator (ie total number including asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic patients) is unknown, but more aggressive testing policies like S Korea will identify more
-an older population (?) being proposed as one of reasons Italy has 6% death rate
-10% patients with this disease are very I'll and may need ICU. If health services overwhelmed, and there are not enough ICU beds to go round, more people will die
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@horgand, I fully agree with you, but then, to be fair, it's up to Public Health Authorities, not us, to tell people what they should do. But the retrospectoscope always gives the clearest view, it seems clear now Public Health Authorities didn't get the Italy issue 100% right. I think they are still lagging behind and not having the balls to recommend unpopular moves here, but hopefully at least we do things a week earlier than Italy
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They did cancel St Patrick's day parades, but I think there was overwhelming feeling that public wanted them cancelled, so hardly an unpopular decision!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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You couldn't make it up!! No mention of where she may have caught it..... Skier?? Holiday in Italy?
BBC News
"Health minister Nadine Dorries says she has tested positive for coronavirus.
She said in a statement that as soon as she was informed she took all the advised precautions and has been self-isolating at home.
"Public Health England has started detailed contact tracing and the department and my parliamentary office are closely following their advice."
She thanked the NHS staff who had provided her with advice and support"
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| dazman wrote: |
| jw83113 wrote: |
| dazman wrote: |
All I want to know is how long the bars are gonna be closed in Ischgl??
Priorities and all that. |
Good man glad to see you have your priorities right. A daily dose of stroh rum should keep all known bugs away. |
And for someone who’s been on the floor of Kitzloch I can attest to that....one mans Stroh 80% is another mans hand sanitiser. |
I have found memories of Stroh.
Needed a swig off the handy bottle, before I went down my first black slope.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nadine Dorries has coronavirus
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You know it makes sense.
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No, I hadn't; thanks for posting the link. Obviously when high profile figures become infected it makes it seem a little more scary.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So 4 of us have just returned from Ischgl on Friday and did all the usual partying including in Kitzloch. 2 of us have cold/cough but as no temperature 111 have refused to test for Covid. A third one of us is due to start chemo on Thursday (the trip was a final fling before a hideous few months ahead) and the hospital won’t test her or us to see if she’s been exposed - madness as obviously she was exposed in the Kitzloch seeing as there will have been several infected people in there with us. It’s maddening and worrying . We thought Austria was safer than UK as there were only 2 cases there versus 19 in the UK when we travelled!!! Is it true the resort is shutting down next weds???
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Poster: A snowHead
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Some people would say Nadine Dorries has always been scary
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| horgand wrote: |
EXACTLY WRONG.
Going to regions with a higher penetration of Corona virus (than your home region) poses a proportionately higher health risk (at a minimum) to yourself, your family, your colleagues and everybody you come into contact with (& who comes into contact with them) subsequently.
If you're coming back to a small uninfected town in the UK, from Italy, or a badly infected area of France say, even after a flight from near one of those regions, you're putting the whole town at risk through your actions.
If you're young & fit, you're unlikely to perish yourself, but everyone who is old or immuno suppressed, who subsequently contracts the disease because of your ignorant actions is in serious danger of death.......
The grim fact is that some people's decision making about their travel, say, is seriously impacting on other people's health risks. It's akin to passive smoking, except far more acute, accelerated, focused & deadly in the short term. So, it's not about 'imposing decision making on anyone else', it's actually about ensuring that their decision making & consequent actions don't impose actual damage to your or your loved one's health.... and perhaps cost them their life..... |
Sure, don’t disagree with that, but can you demonstrate to me that I’m going to a higher risk region than my home location. FYI, I live in London and my intended destination is in the Savoie region of France.
Over to you...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sure, don’t disagree with that, but can you demonstrate to me that I’m going to a higher risk region than my home location. FYI, I live in London and my intended destination is in the Savoie region of France.
Over to you...[/quote]
@ robrar, but It's not up to me to demonstrate this to you.
It's up to YOU to inform YOURSELF that the risk of staying in this region and travelling to and from there (thru airports, taxis, buses etc, etc possibly shared with highly infected regions) is worth the personal and public health risk that you are most probably taking.
For me, for the foreseeable future, there will be no unnecessary travel, more working from home, less going out, no big communal events, (e.g concerts), etc, etc. These are personal choices, my mum is elderly & immuno compromised, as are 2 others of my immediate family, so I'm not going to infect them through ignorant selfish actions, or inaction, (hygiene, disease prevention, etc) on my part hopefully...
Of course, it's a personal choice, but there's no real debate imho.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 11-03-20 1:00; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Rllsmith, where are you?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| horgand wrote: |
@ robrar, but It's not up to me to demonstrate this to you.
It's up to YOU to inform YOURSELF that the risk of staying in this region and travelling to and from there (thru airports, taxis, buses etc, etc possibly shared with highly infected regions) is worth the personal and public health risk that you are most probably taking.
For me, for the foreseeable future, no unnecessary travel, working from home, less going out, no big communal events, etc, etc. These are personal choices, my mum is elderly & immuno compromised as are 2 others of my immediate family, so I'm not going to infect them through my inaction hopefully...
It's a personal choice. |
Ah, so after the lecturing you’re now copping out.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@rob@rar, They usually do. It's all fine and dandy if you can isolate on a farm in the middle of nowhere. To me here, a week in the Alps is salvation.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| horgand wrote: |
@ robrar, but It's not up to me to demonstrate this to you.
It's up to YOU to inform YOURSELF that the risk of staying in this region and travelling to and from there (thru airports, taxis, buses etc, etc possibly shared with highly infected regions) is worth the personal and public health risk that you are most probably taking.
For me, for the foreseeable future, no unnecessary travel, working from home, less going out, no big communal events, etc, etc. These are personal choices, my mum is elderly & immuno compromised as are 2 others of my immediate family, so I'm not going to infect them through my inaction hopefully...
It's a personal choice. |
Ah, so after the lecturing you’re now copping out.
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Oh merciful jesus give me patience!!
I've told you what I'm doing, I've outlined the criteria I would apply if I were you. Now kindly shag off, and make up your own mind matey.
As for copping out: I think it's a cop out to try to get a stranger on a ski forum to inform you of the personal & public health risk you are most probably taking. I think it's a cop out not to make up your own mind and state, or at least being fully clear on, your reasons for doing so. And finally I think it's a total cop out to head off skiing to more infected areas through infectious airports ,planes,, taxis, etc, etc, etc while there is a European wide public health pandemic at large that will endanger up to 10% of the population. Now cop that!?!
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| horgand wrote: |
[Oh merciful jesus give me patience!!
I've told you what I'm doing, I've outlined the criteria I would apply if I were you. Now kindly shag off, and make up your own mind matey.
As for copping out: I think it's a cop out to try to get a stranger on a ski forum to inform you of the personal & public health risk you are most probably taking. I think it's a cop out not to make up your own mind and state, or at least being fully clear on, your reasons for doing so. And finally I think it's a total cop out to head off skiing to more infected areas through infectious airports ,planes,, taxis, etc, etc, etc while there is a European wide public health pandemic at large that will endanger up to 10% of the population. Now cop that!?!
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I have made up my own mind, matey. What makes you think that I haven't considered all the issues you raise and more, but because my circumstances are different to yours I have reached a different conclusion? What makes you think I am not informed? Is it your arrogance that your choice is the right choice, and that anyone who reaches a different decision must be wrong?
I appreciate that you are frightened and lashing out, but if you want to criticise other people specifically it might be respectful if you could read what they have already posted in this thread and the other Covid-19 threads and you'll discover that I have given a lot of thought to the issues you flag (all of which are reasonable) but because my situation is different from you there is a possibility I will reach a different decision, one which is equally valid as your decision.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@horgand, you're full of shi*t pal. You don't even live here so save your cowardice for the barn you've bolted into..It's the only place it will have any effect in.
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@horgand, firstly, please try to calm down and stop being rude to other posters (to be honest, that could be said to a lot of posts on this thread, from all parts of the spectrum).
You're entitled to your opinion of what the acceptable level of risk is. But @rob@rar is equally entitled to have his own thoughts, and there's no way of telling which is correct. Some people may be taking even more extreme steps than you, and think that what you are doing is reckless. And conversely some people will be carrying out activities that both you and @rob@rar would deem overly risky. There's no right or wrong answer.
There's also no requirement for anyone to justify their actions to strangers on a forum (though equally, they are welcome to if they want to).
The most extreme steps to limit the coronavirus outbreak would have grave economic and social costs, which in turn lead to further health costs. There is therefore a balance to be struck. We can decide where the balance lies in our own lives, but fortunately there are far better-informed experts making the big decisions and setting the boundaries.
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FAQ
