 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@pam w, @davidof, all roads lead to...the Dolomites. I'm dedicated to exhausting all the alternatives first.
Hard to pack a picnic with 10 euro fresh tagliatelle and a Sacher torte chased with a doppio macchiato...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@altis, wow, thanks for that! Looks like a good bedtime read.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
| @crosbie, possibly but that's probably too much faff with an XC skier in the mix. |
From the website it says "In Plagne Montalbert you will find up to 20km of cross country skiing tracks divided into 3 levels." and that's fraction of the full La Plagne area which has "186 km of cross-country trails."
Incidentally, I noticed that the Adray hotel gives from 14% to 30% discount on lift passes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@crosbie, only if there's snow! But willing to investigate. I suffered over the col de longefoy this past summer riding the étape de tour. Looked nice up there.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
| @crosbie, only if there's snow! But willing to investigate. I suffered over the col de longefoy this past summer riding the étape de tour. Looked nice up there. |
Having done Col de Tourmalet (2nd col of the day) a couple of years ago I have a glimpse of your suffering. Just before I'd reached the summit, I imagined that if any car with an empty cycle rack offered me a lift I would be unable to refuse. 
And yes, I know experts do many, many cols in a single day.
As it happens, I have driven up to Longefoy via the 'scenic', windy ascent, that is probably where you cycled up.
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@crosbie, we climbed from the other side, after doing the cormet deRoselend from albertville. After Longefoy the étape descended to Moutiers then climbed to Val Thorens via the side road to St. Martin de Belleville. So 40k up, 20k down, 10k up 20k down then 35k up. I thought I was going to have a heart attack about 5k from St. M...
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@Pasigal, yup, we'd stopped in Moutiers briefly before going up the D88 to Longefoy for the night, so reverse direction. You broke no speed records on that wiggly descent I daresay. :-/
I trust your heart is still going strong if you yet have eyes on skiing La Grave.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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La Clusaz / Le Grand Bornand were listed already but I'll throw in another vote and be more specific. The village of La Clusaz has got quite expensive, but La Croix Fry on the outskirts is cheaper, and has excellent XC and downhill slope access. Worth a shot. Plus, the drive from Paris takes only 6 hours, so you save a bit on tolls and gas vs. places further along in Tarentaise or Aosta valleys.
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@balso, thanks for the tip. I have checked out the prices and noted that La Clusaz is pretty expensive but I like the look of piste map. And the Aravis is a beautiful area.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Of all the arguments I have heard for holidaying in French resorts rather than Italy the fact that food on the mountain is so expensive that you can save a lot of money by not eating it is the most convoluted. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@pam w the devil appears in many ways. 
In the Dolomites he comes bearing pasta and schnitzel.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Of all the arguments I have heard for holidaying in French resorts rather than Italy the fact that food on the mountain is so expensive that you can save a lot of money by not eating it is the most convoluted. |
overpriced... and poor quality
you could say the same for the accommodation and choose to stay in a tent and save even more money !
France is eye wateringly expensive in general, I'm always amazed to read of people here spending 5 or 6 grand on a week's ski holiday in France.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ski holidays are a misnomer. They're really eating, drinking, ski-lifting, and sleeping holidays. There's only about 2 hours of actual skiing involved per day (more if you're a beginner).
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Poster: A snowHead
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This is a little off topic, but as someone who now tends to go once to Italy and once to France each year... we've found there's very little difference in price. (This being for two adults, low season, self catering, flying from Scotland, hiring a car, and generally avoiding the most expensive resorts.)
Comparing like for like, Italy has tended to be cheaper for flights, car hire (by a significant amount) and food. France tends to be cheaper for be cheaper for lift passes (especially in smaller ski areas) and accommodation. Overall, these cancel each other out. Meanwhile, we find ourselves priced out of Switzerland and Austria.
It's possible that there is a bigger variance in prices between peak season and low season in France, compared to Italy, which would be a factor for @Pasigal.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Priced out of Austria - You are going to tne wrong resorts
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Isola 2000 lift pass is pretty cheap @ 145-170€. Plenty of XC skiing there too.
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Perhaps one of the French factors is the huge range of accommodation, from cheap and basic to ultra-luxury. Out of peak holiday times a small, ski-convenient, warm apartment can be had for very little money. But rental prices will at least double in the peak holiday weeks. Because there is so much self-catering in France resort shops are usually close by and pretty well stocked, wine, beer and Old Lady Gin is cheap enough. A couple of steaks, a fresh baguette, a bag of salad and an acceptable bottle of red wine won't break the bank. Even small places may well have a traiteur selling good quality ready cooked food if folk prefer not to cook for themselves. Nowadays I only have to pay for myself and lunch on the mountain is a super part of the day. But we never did it when there were five of us.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We're also priced out of Switzerland, just can't quite swing it. Austria cost adds up when you factor in flights to Innsbruck.
I agree that France and Italy are a wash on costs on a like for like basis, but we have to fly to Italy.
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@Pasigal, if you want a short 5 hour drive, then Lelex in the Jura must be worth consideration eh? Especially given La Vattay is an XC paradise.
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@Frosty the Snowman, yes, it is largely flights to Austria (from Scotland) which make it expensive. Though it's also quite difficult to find a week's accommodation for under €300 euros or so (which is our French / Italian budget.
@Pasigal, ah yes, forgot that you're coming from Paris!
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| crosbie wrote: |
| @Pasigal, if you want a short 5 hour drive, then Lelex in the Jura must be worth consideration eh? Especially given La Vattay is an XC paradise. |
unless he can book last minute I wouldn't go anywhere low lying from this winter onwards
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
We're also priced out of Switzerland, just can't quite swing it. Austria cost adds up when you factor in flights to Innsbruck.
I agree that France and Italy are a wash on costs on a like for like basis, but we have to fly to Italy. |
your problem is living in Paris, dreary expensive northern town on an endless plain in the middle of frickin' nowhere. You should move or take up another sport really.
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@Pasigal, really?
“ One reason to avoid Italy, and this is kind of weaselly, is that the food is so damn good that we eat lunch on the slopes every day. Even with good prices, that's still 60 euros or so a day with drinks etc. for three hungry people. But if we go to France the on mountain food is relatively more expensive and not as good, so I'll just pack a picnic for the salle hors sac. That right there saves 2-300 euros a week or more. ”
That’s not “weaselly”, that’s possibly the dumbest argument I’ve ever heard.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
We're also priced out of Switzerland, just can't quite swing it. Austria cost adds up when you factor in flights to Innsbruck.
I agree that France and Italy are a wash on costs on a like for like basis, but we have to fly to Italy. |
Switzerland is, frankly, eye-watering when it comes to lift passes, equipment hire, and all the "small things" such as coffee, glühwein,... It's a bit frustrating, and too bad, because otherwise accommodation tends to be good-value and restaurant prices aren't shocking compared to Paris.
And as far as I know there aren't any direct flights to Innsbruck or Salzburg from Paris.
I challenge that you have to fly to Italy, however : not only Aosta Valley, but the western Piemont (Bardonecchia, Sauze d'Oulx) are not that far by road. There's also the option of the Paris - Verona night train, where you could have your own 4-berth compartment for 500 euros RT or even a bit less.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Pasigal wrote: |
We're also priced out of Switzerland, just can't quite swing it. Austria cost adds up when you factor in flights to Innsbruck.
I agree that France and Italy are a wash on costs on a like for like basis, but we have to fly to Italy. |
your problem is living in Paris, dreary expensive northern town on an endless plain in the middle of frickin' nowhere. You should move or take up another sport really. |
we should all have such problems.
The French don't have the wealth of cheap package tours that you find in the UK. Bargain holidays here are thru friends/family and the comite d'entreprise. At my former workplace a 2br condo in various 2nd tier Alps resorts was 200 euros a week in school holiday season. IF you were friends of the guys who ran the CE you could even get a spot...
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| davidof wrote: |
| crosbie wrote: |
| @Pasigal, if you want a short 5 hour drive, then Lelex in the Jura must be worth consideration eh? Especially given La Vattay is an XC paradise. |
unless he can book last minute I wouldn't go anywhere low lying from this winter onwards
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That will save us money on lift passes.
I agree regarding low-lying areas. It's inevitable. If the skiing starts below 1500 m it's going to be nothing but a memory in a few decades.
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You know it makes sense.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Pasigal, really?
“ One reason to avoid Italy, and this is kind of weaselly, is that the food is so damn good that we eat lunch on the slopes every day. Even with good prices, that's still 60 euros or so a day with drinks etc. for three hungry people. But if we go to France the on mountain food is relatively more expensive and not as good, so I'll just pack a picnic for the salle hors sac. That right there saves 2-300 euros a week or more. ”
That’s not “weaselly”, that’s possibly the dumbest argument I’ve ever heard. |
It was also (mostly) facetious. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Pasigal, oh. Well, there you go. Seemed to have been taken at face value by a few, inc. me ...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| balso wrote: |
| Pasigal wrote: |
We're also priced out of Switzerland, just can't quite swing it. Austria cost adds up when you factor in flights to Innsbruck.
I agree that France and Italy are a wash on costs on a like for like basis, but we have to fly to Italy. |
Switzerland is, frankly, eye-watering when it comes to lift passes, equipment hire, and all the "small things" such as coffee, glühwein,... It's a bit frustrating, and too bad, because otherwise accommodation tends to be good-value and restaurant prices aren't shocking compared to Paris.
And as far as I know there aren't any direct flights to Innsbruck or Salzburg from Paris.
I challenge that you have to fly to Italy, however : not only Aosta Valley, but the western Piemont (Bardonecchia, Sauze d'Oulx) are not that far by road. There's also the option of the Paris - Verona night train, where you could have your own 4-berth compartment for 500 euros RT or even a bit less. |
You're right about western Piedmont. I need to do a bit of pre-navigation.
I think there are direct flights to Innsbruck from Paris, at least in winter. I've priced them the last few years and during the school holidays its around 275 euros pp. Whereas we've flown to Milan for 300 all in for 4 people with 2 checked bags via EJ.
But thanks everyone for the suggestions. I've got a list to work off of in France/Aosta.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Pasigal, oh. Well, there you go. Seemed to have been taken at face value by a few, inc. me ... |
I've used much dumber arguments to convince myself of much more important things. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| balso wrote: |
| There's also the option of the Paris - Verona night train, where you could have your own 4-berth compartment for 500 euros RT or even a bit less. |
Moreover, there's the option of the Paris/Briançon sleeper train to get you in one of the various villages in the Serre Chevalier. Seems like a no brainer.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| davidof wrote: |
| unless he can book last minute I wouldn't go anywhere low lying from this winter onwards |
This winter has been pretty naff so far, indeed, but next winter is going to snow everyone in 2m deep at the doors, down to 1300m. That's what I reckon. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Pasigal, Champoluc is 1hr30 further drive than Chamonix ... so totally doable ...
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Since we got shoved into the same holiday zone as Paris, we've either gone to the Pyrenees, specifically the Neiges Catalanes areas or the sunny side of the Lauteret. For some reason, Parisians don't venture in large numbers into the 04/05 départements, they may as well have stuck a huge mountain range in the way
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@Pasigal, Have you thought about staying in Champagny en Vanoise? a traditional village with easy access to La Plagne and Paradiski. It's a relatively easy journey from Paris even in the school holidays if you time it right.
You can rent a good quality 2 bedroom apartment in a converted old farmhouse for under 900 euros a week in peak season in a rustic part of the village (if you know where to look and book it soon). Just a 5 minute walk from the swimming pool and spa and maybe 10 minutes walk to the gondola.
The cross country skiing is in Champagny le haut, a beautiful valley at 1500 metres with easy access on the free shuttle bus or a 5 to 10 minute drive. The only ice climbing tower in Europe is up there as well if you are feeling brave. There is 25kms of cross country skiing but it is an easy 20 minute drive to Pralognan or maybe even Courchevel if you need more.
Three La Plagne 6 day passes and a XC pass would be around 850 euros so it would fit in with your budget.
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| crosbie wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| unless he can book last minute I wouldn't go anywhere low lying from this winter onwards |
This winter has been pretty naff so far, indeed, but next winter is going to snow everyone in 2m deep at the doors, down to 1300m. That's what I reckon. |
it may snow 2 meters next week for that matter
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| davidof wrote: |
| it may snow 2 meters next week for that matter |
Have 2m powder board - will travel! 
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| crosbie wrote: |
| balso wrote: |
| There's also the option of the Paris - Verona night train, where you could have your own 4-berth compartment for 500 euros RT or even a bit less. |
Moreover, there's the option of the Paris/Briançon sleeper train to get you in one of the various villages in the Serre Chevalier. Seems like a no brainer. |
I've done it. Have you taken it? the bunks are tiny and really uncomfortable, tbh, and if you have 6 people in the chamber with ski gear it's a complete bordel.
I've taken it to Gap several times for cycling, too. It's a hard-core experience. Not that I wouldn't do it again but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone over 200 pounds or 6 feet tall.
As I mentioned above, XC could be a bit iffy in the valley if there's no snow.
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