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How clean?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Excuse the fresh account, it's a bit "mumsnet" but I didn't want this tied back to my post history.

We are having a difference of opinion over what constitutes "immaculate" wrt a holiday rental Laughing

The kitchen floor hadn't been swept, there were crumbs on the worktop and once you started looking closer there was dust in the corners of the kitchen cupboards, on the blinds, on the stove etc. The leather sofa made a sticky noise if you lifted the cushions and there was loads of debris down the sides.

Am I being unreasonable? Is that acceptable? It wasn't cheap if that makes a difference.

Owner has basically washed his hands of the matter and said he doesn't think there's an issue. I couldn't face having a confrontation with the cleaner so didn't push for them to meet me while we were there, just did a lot of cleaning ourselves (facepalm)

I understand I'm not going to get any redress, just want to know if I'm being too sensitive snowHead
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Billy Bob wrote:
Excuse the fresh account, it's a bit "mumsnet" but I didn't want this tied back to my post history.

So this is a Guess The Snowhead thread then?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Billy Bob, completely unacceptable. Did you take photos?
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If it’s unacceptable to you then that’s all that matters, but are you dealing with a private air BnB type rental or an agency.? Not that it should matter either way, the client/customer are always right IMO.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Sounds minging, it just hasn't been properly cleaned. I'd complain like hell.

It's not on!
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Without trying to sound like a complete back bottom, " the client/customer are always right IMO" is an angle I'm always up for debating!
We get poor reviews on booking.com because people can't drive and then manage to clip their car on a mahoosive snow bank or a stationary wall etc... etc...

I would say that dusty blinds, corners of cupboards are something that is normally dealt with on a deeper clean rather than a change-over. I tend to get these things done as soon as I notice them (although I'm sure prevention is better than cure), mainly because there is so much to do in such a small space of time.

But... dirty floors, kitchen surfaces, bathrooms, sheets, crumby sofa (just going to check mine wink )are all things that should be on the change-over list!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Billy Bob, A suitable review online to let others know to bring their own Marigolds would seem in order
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

I would say that dusty blinds, corners of cupboards are something that is normally dealt with on a deeper clean rather than a change-over. I tend to get these things done as soon as I notice them (although I'm sure prevention is better than cure), mainly because there is so much to do in such a small space of time.

But... dirty floors, kitchen surfaces, bathrooms, sheets, crumby sofa (just going to check mine wink )are all things that should be on the change-over list!

I'd agree with this - having been on both sides. One English visitor, who arrived late to the apartment of my French friend, after the "cleaner/key" woman had had to leave, was very indignant that he'd been badly delayed by snow (driving to a piste side apartment at 1550m) and that the local shop was closed (it was about 2030) and he had no milk. He said the owner should have warned him that he might need snow chains. I gave him some milk, stupid sod.

Dust on blinds would be acceptable to me, an unswept floor or sticky surfaces wouldn't. As a sometimes cleaner, I also felt that leaving plastic bags of refuse in the apartment (because the hike to the bins was too much hassle) was unacceptable. As was baked-on tomato sauce splattered all over the inside of the microwave.
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@Billy Bob, Not commenting firmly on dusty blinds as we don't have any but I'd think a quick swiff with a duster would be a standard effort taking no time at all.

Dust in cupboards, well, we have a little in our own - and dusting properly would involve emptying them each changeover which I know we don't do. BUt dust has to come from somewhere and if the environment generally is dirty, more likely to get in the cupboards.

Otherwise, totally unacceptable. I'd have had the owner there on the spot and been quite firm that it wasn't acceptable. Whe our guests leave an apartment not much worse that that we charge them for extra cleaning!

Questions: 1. which country? as in France, any French renter will ask for an arrival inspection* and would be more than firm upon finding a state like that - as their expectation is that they'd be charged for the cleaning on departure : 2. who did you book through? (and did you take pictures or do you have email records?) as both booking.com and AirBnB are very keen to assist you with such a complaint).

* We don't usually do such an inspection as we don't think it's necessary - we do tell all guests that if they find something they aren't happy with to let us know immediately.
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so you basically created a new account just to cry here over nothing? Crap, humanity going downhill faster than I thought.
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kosmoz wrote:
so you basically created a new account just to cry here over nothing? Crap, humanity going downhill faster than I thought.


The OP has a good reason to have a new account, and has been sensitive and respectful with his post. He deserves the same back.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Agreed - and he has had some sensible replies which suggest he has a legitimate grumble.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
pam w wrote:
Agreed - and he has had some sensible replies which suggest he has a legitimate grumble.


because this forum is full of the same - old boring farts from accounting, that are huffing and puffing over nothing.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Billy Bob, I suspect that if you left the apartment like that the owner would charge you for cleaning.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thanks all (even kosmoz rolling eyes)

Took loads of photos and emailed them to the owner but didn't phone him straight away, did everything by email to maintain a record and timeline.

My big mistake, and I freely admit it with hindsight, was not getting the maintenance people out the next morning. We'd already cleaned it up to an acceptable minimum standard and I didn't want the confrontation while on holiday, and foolishly thought the photos would speak for themselves.

Was in Switzerland, UK based owner, booked privately through their own website (mistake no2 as it turns out)

Once I get my security deposit back I'll leave as unbiased a review as possible with pics on trip advisor.

Reason for the post, @kosmoz, is that the owner and I seemed to be completely at odds on our interpretation of the same evidence and I was starting to doubt myself.

snowHead
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@kosmoz, or people who are happy to holiday amongst other people's detritus. That would be you.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
kosmoz wrote:


because this forum is full of the same - old boring farts from accounting, that are huffing and puffing over nothing.


And a sprinkling of k-nobs, seemingly.

Our January Airbnb had a cleaning charge of 70E which wasn't taken at booking, so we decided to save it and clean. Mrs G's superpower is cleaning. The host let us keep our bags in the place between checkout and collection, so we went away and came back. She jumped on us to thank us for the way we left it; and to remark that no-one had ever left it so clean. We probably leave most places cleaner than we found it. Shoulda seen the fire glass! Gleamo! Very Happy
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Charliegolf, that’s being human, nothing to write home about, look for a forum, register and create a thread about it.

Everyone has it’s own standards about pretty much everything, posting something in forum won’t help to sort the situation with owner or travel agency, it won’t even work as a shaming strategy, since OP didn’t put a hyperlink to an appartment/challet.

You already cleaned it, get some wine, go shred a mountain, make love with your SO and have a great time despite some bad start at checking in.
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We had one issue with unsatisfactory cleaning for guests arriving, I agreed with them and refunded the cleaning charge and then got the same from our cleaning company.

The standard you describe is completely unacceptable.
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We booked an apartment in France through Crystal about a decade ago. Our only ever trip with them. After arriving very late for a litany of ridiculous reasons (the roads were free and clear) my first job was to clean the flush handle, toilet seat, wall around toilet the roll holder and back of toilet as they were covered in hardened excrement. I then got on my hands and knees to scrub the bathroom floor tiles that had a similar coating here and there. The kitchen then needed a full clean, and the fridge was beyond even a clean, the insides were so cracked and broken with mold and slime in the gaps. We just kept food on the balcony. The bed, a sofa bed, was broken and functioned badly in either roll. We didn't have cameras or phones with cameras. In the morning we spoke to the rep and showed him where we had cleaned (and the bag of rags and kitchen towel with the remnants from the bathroom on them) and the inside of the fridge and sofa bed, and he agreed it was unacceptable and he would get back to us. We never saw him again, and when we got home (eventually, it was the trip from hell), Crystal customer "service" refused to believe the apartment was in such a state, and at one point i was actually asked "what are you try to get?". The rep at resort had apparently left Crystal the week we were there, so couldn't be contacted. We got £200 back, but all of that was for the other issues, of which there were several. They refused to accept any responsibility for the apartment. Needless to say, it will be a cold day in hell before Crystal or parent companies get a bean of our hard earned.

@kosmoz, I don't agree with you. We would all put up with a bit of dust in corners here and there, if that's all there was. But that should never apply to kitchen and bathroom areas. People need to know that the kitchen and bathroom have been properly cleaned for hygiene reasons (and don't spout that carp about people need exposure to germs to have a healthy immune system, what about if someone has recently had chemo, as once applied to us, or any of a multitude of other reasons have a lowered natural defence). If there are crumbs on the sides and dust all over, the kitchen HASN'T been cleaned at all, and who wants that? Similarly in the bathroom. The OP is right to complain, and, as you have demonstrated, right to create a sock account to ask for opinions about it.
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@kosmoz, I have to say, I think you are being a thoroughly unpleasant and unsympathetic lady's front bottom.

We rent a number of apartments and I would be ashamed if a guest arrived and one was in that state.

People save money to go on, and have limited holiday time so the very least a landlord should do is make sure they feel cherished on arrival.

I hope you don't rent out property, and if you do, please let us know the details on here so it - and you - can be avoided.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
We are going to an apartment which has a 70E compulsory cleaning - so I expect that it will be clean when we arrive because the previous renters will have paid to have it cleaned and I expect that we will only do a cursory tidy up when we leave because we are being charged for cleaning.

Compare that to our apartment at New Year where there was no cleaning fee, so I was expecting it to have been cleaned by the previous clients and therefore would have "put up with" a "homely" cleaning level. As it was it was spotless, and we left it spotless. The owners came to "clean" when we left - and commented there was nothing to be done.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:
...... A suitable review online to let others know to .....


Tried to do just that in another instance ...... 'premium plus catered chalet' for which there was no current review option on TA ...... company in question is often referenced on here.

Contacted TA to create one ..... and request denied for unspecified reasons.

At least the proudly advertised bathrobes came in useful when wiping your feet before getting into bed ...... the associated slippers NBWAW .....
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Billy Bob wrote:
... The kitchen floor hadn't been swept, there were crumbs on the worktop and once you started looking closer there was dust in the corners of the kitchen cupboards, on the blinds, on the stove etc. The leather sofa made a sticky noise if you lifted the cushions and there was loads of debris down the sides.

Am I being unreasonable? Is that acceptable? It wasn't cheap if that makes a difference.

I don't understand the political background.

I've never stayed in a dirty place, although I've had a few which stank of people burning tobacco which I walked away from.

I would not look down the back of the sofa. My own sofa is immaculate, but it's not relevant and if I'm sleeping on yours I would not look.

When I get stuff which "isn't cheap", then I expect it to be as good as the money. That's the deal.

--
Trip Advisor... I run a few businesses which are on the receiving end.
No matter what you do you'll get a fair number of terribly negative reviews.
They are certainly very angry people, and they can't be pleased no matter what you do.
Some of them have simply slagged off the wrong business, which tells you all you need to know.

As a reader, if the negative reviews are less than about 5% of the total and if the ones I look at
are clearly angry then I reckon the business is great.
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I am sitting in a vacation rental as I write this, and I own one as well. The OPs gripes seem in line with my many experiences as a renter. I’m looking at ants on the floor right now! VRs just aren’t going to be as clean or well-maintained as home, for many reasons. My own rental is quite clean but there are some things that could be better. Tough balance to strike between keeping everything perfect (and watching it get trashed) and letting things slide (and not enjoying it myself). As a general rule, one gets what one pays for, whether you’re renting a VR or selecting a management company for your own. Nice to have first-world problems, I guess.
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@Scooter in Seattle, True, but some things can be made easier by the renter. Easy enough these days to make kitchens and bathrooms that are pretty much entirely wipe down then mop.
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Wouldn’t stay in anywhere that wasn’t clean, we always travel independently and if walked into a room and it was dirty or bathroom wasn’t squeaky clean I’d leave, and have done (in France). I have a dust allergy and to me its important for a good nights sleep. Also why should we live somewhere on holiday that’s not as clean as our own house if we’re paying decent money for it?

Changeover day laziness annoys me, We know the owner led places we stay put a huge amount of effort in and good for them, the room staff get a tip at the end of the week too.

No excuse for poor hygiene, dirty surfaces, cupboards, grime under beds, dirty bedding (yes dodgy sheets) etc. One reason we don’t go away with tour operators, and stay in owner led businesses with a vested interest. Our friends son worked for a season in a top end chalet and his stories made me sure not to use them again....funny but not great if you’re the one paying the bill.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Markymark29, yep. All of that.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Scooter in Seattle, our apartments are at least as clean as our own home! Which is pretty darn clean.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I've rented apartments which are cleaner than my home.... Embarassed
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I think VR owners could do a lot to save themselves time if they provided the basics to clean. I resent having to buy a full bottle of washing up liquid, loo cleaner, bleach, floor cleaner, cloths, scourers,mops, brushes etc. I take washing up liquid, t-towels and scourers with me - but if the tools to clean anything other than dishes are not provide then it won't get done. Leave me mops, brushes, hoover (if carpeted) and the "liquids" required and you will not have to clean anything after we've left.

Same with loo roll, bin bags and kitchen towel - cheap enough, but don't want to have to spend time on holiday shopping for mundane items - if I've given you £1000 for a week I think shoving some loo roll & bin bags in a cupboard isn't a hardship. Buy a seasons worth at Costco!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@skimummk, i used to provide 2 toilet rolls, washing up liquid, liquid soap in the bathroom, carpet sweeper, dustpan and brush, bin bags, toilet duck, tea towels, scrubbies and a few ither bits.

Its self catering not a hotel so yes, buy rhe toilet rolls after that.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
it would not be acceptable if they were not charging for it! Seems like Kosmoz is trying to make Stanton and Whitegold look good.
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@skimummk,+1
I agree entirely.
We just rented an apartment in Zell am See,
It was clean enough, but as you say why not leave those essentials such as plenty of loo rolls, tea towels, washing up liquid etc.
OK you can take all this stuff if you're driving .. but by train or plane it's a different story.
I always wonder why apartment owners or their cleaners cant leave behind in the flat:
cooking oil, shampoo, salt, sugar and those other cheap but essential items which cost hardly anything, but are a proper phaaf if you have to buy enormous quantities just to leave them behind to keep the cleaners in them till well into their retirement.

Note to the Zell am See souvenir shops... why cant you get some tasteful tea towels?
We have tea towels from all over the Northern Hemisphere from Whistler to Hemmel Hempstead, and would have happily bought a couple from beautiful Zell .... but you have all sorts of useless crap.
I'd love to be doing the drying up remembering great times making glasses dirty in Zell.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
All the nice tea towels are in the Self catering apartments Wink
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@DrLawn, i used to provide salt and sugar...then some tosser put salt in the sugar. Hilarious...Not. Buy your own sugar if you want it.

Shampoo...go to a hotel.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@holidayloverxx, agreed. Where would we store a whole seasons worth of those products in the apartment? There’s scarce enough storage as it is.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
When I Self Catered, I hated that I couldn't leave the basics (a lot of which had to be binned, due to luggage space/weight), that had cost me a fortune in the Supermarket.
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@Old Fartbag, we provide the basics. Works out better for all.
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pam w wrote:
I've rented apartments which are cleaner than my home.... Embarassed


Me too, and our apartment is definitely cleaner than our home right now.
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