 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, I’m looking for some advice and hoping you’ll be able to help.
My kids are 10 and 8. We’ve been taking them on Esprit hotel holidays each year since the eldest was 3, and it’s generally worked very well for us. But it’s now starting to feel like they’re getting beyond the ages where Esprit works best, and I’m wondering whether other types of ski holiday might work better in future.
I know there’s a wide range of options so was just wondering if anyone had any ideas on where to start looking?
We’ve mostly spent our holidays in the Alps, usually go with another family with similar aged kids, and all we’re really looking for is lessons for the kids, and maybe a little bit more comfort and slightly better food than Esprit hotels offer.
And tips on where to start looking would be very much appreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mark Warner or Inghams Chalethotels ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We had a run of Esprit holidays through our daughter's earlier years, and had to work out what to do next. But it was easier for us with one child, while I can't remember now the point Esprit seemed less relevant it was more the age of your oldest. I think Esprit worked very well for 8 year olds.
I recall a couple of holidays with another family which worked quite well. First time it was in a hotel with half board which gave the children lots of time together; they also all went into ski school together. Second time it was separate self catering apartments but always meeting up in evenings.
But in the end daughter preferred lots of skiing with us to waiting for others in ski school. The last time with Esprit she wanted us to return and take her off skiing again after her class, so their childcare offered little benefit over regular ski school. So for the majority of holidays since about age 12 or 13 we have just gone with a threesome and she has put up with being stuck with her parents. We would book a private lesson for a whole or half day at some point so she didn't develop bad habits (and we at least became aware of our ingrained bad habits).
Not sure I have offered a real suggestion, but I hope it is reassurance moving on will work out. For you there may be more of a question of deciding when though, 8 and 10 year olds can have rather different needs.
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@rickyp2, Perhaps one of the more 'upmarket' catered chalets would be worth a look. Many will advise about local ski school options and childcare facilities.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We took ours Esprit for 2 years when they were about 6-8 - although even with Esprit we used ESF as they get smaller class sizes and since then they haven't needed lessons and we've done self-catered apartments, more recently we've holidayed with friends who have kids the same age (teens), we usually get accomodation in the same village or shared a large apartment.
If they've had 7 weeks of lessons do the kids still need ski school? We found it much more convenient not to have them in ski school once they were able to ski well enough to come everywhere with us, we just got them a private lesson or two and in the eves we prefer to have the option of different restaurants or indeed home cooked food that we know we will enjoy. We don't really drink so an "all inclusive" with wine etc. isn't that appealling.
Of course, if your main reason for doing Esprit was to have a holiday where the kids are taken care of during the day and have their own "high tea" so that you can enjoy adult-only eves then a catered chalet is still your best bet - maybe a private one if there are enough of you so that you can dictate meal times?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My kids are now 11, 9 and 5. We have done a mixture or Esprit, Ski famille, Family Ski company, VIP and Mark Warner over the years and have enjoyed all of them, but we have always taken the kids out of school to keep costs down as we have a sympathetic headteacher.
This year with the eldest secondary we decided not to take him out, and so the prices for us are too high in school holidays for any of the TOs above, even though the 5yo and 9yo would definitely benefit from the childcare that Esprit offer.
A friend who got to this point a couple of years before us then switched to driving and self catering. She said the only downside is that they miss the social aspect of meeting other families in the hotel and get a little bit fed up of each other after skiing as a family of four all week.
To this end we have booked the Snowheads EoS Family Bash at Easter, and are hoping that this will make driving and self catering more sociable. Really looking forward to it.
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One option is finding a ski school with a longer day.
When we went to Lech with VIP the standard ski school is 10 till 3 including an hour for lunch. The kids loved this especially as lunch was anything off the kids' menu in a mountain restaurant and a fizzy drink. The teaching was excellent and they really improved.
It also gave us adults a long enough day child free to ski, and an hour before or after to ski with our eldest.
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How about Clubmed? We went a few times and seems to work well for adults and kids of all ages
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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To cut costs we would take the kids out either 1 day before half-term or one day after - it makes it slightly more difficult to find accomodation (Italy often easier than France as less purpose build Sat-Sat)
but flights are much cheaper. We have also driven, leave Friday, overnight on the way Sat-Sat accomodation and an overnight on the way back - you then only need the Friday off school.
We really enjoy spending time with the kids as we both have always worked full-time so we didn't want them in ski school/childcare all day, and we aren't advanced skiers that want to tackle hard runs or ski hard. For us the time spent together is as important as the skiing - I guess we really only went skiing cos it was a fun thing to do in the Feb half-term.
Our kids are 19 and 21 now and they are still happy to keep tagging along winter and summer lol! We keep saying "it won't last" but so far so good. Daughter didn't come at New Year and we missed her bigtime. Really not looking forward to "just the two of us" hols. Going with another family was the perfect solution.
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@rickyp2, I guess all families are different, but we went with friends with children about the same ages as ours for many years and always DIY'd it tended to be significantly cheaper when you are restricted to school holiday times . The first few years we put them in regular ski school classes but as they got a bit earlier we booked private lessons for the four of them together which was not much more expensive and far more flexible. They weren't all the same standard but were close enough to enjoy it and they now ski far better than their parents.
It may or may not be right for you but it worked well for us.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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+1 for ClubMed, wish we had found them earlier. The headline cost looks high but as it includes lift pass and instruction is good value.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think by that age my two were approaching the upper level of classes and we found it more or less the same price to put both of them with a private teacher rather than each of them in group lessons. I had been less impressed with the group lessons the previous time ("Come on kids, let's have fun!" but little actual teaching) which influenced my decision.
We usually stay in s/c apartment in Andorra, in Canada a basic hotel suite, and no-one has much energy to do much in the evening. They are in bed by 9 and parents barely an hour later.
I haven't received any complaints about how they don't want to go on a ski holiday with us 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Exactly what @ribblevalleyred said. Also these hotels https://www.familienhotels.com/en/family-hotels-alto-adige/1-0.html and there are plenty more if you go looking - Austria and Italy specialise in them more so than France (at least that's my impression)
We did Mark Warner and Esprit for several years then found going direct to family hotels (hotels that specifically catered for families with childcare in-house and ski-school, ski-hire, lift passes etc all arranged within the hotel) was generally cheaper and the food and accommodation was in a different league to the TOs and we never looked back.
Now at 11 & 13, the kids have outgrown "ski-school" in terms of big group lessons so we self-cater and go twice!
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Poster: A snowHead
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If you still like a social experience you could try small local b&bs. There’s a fabulous one in peisey which we recommend to friends. Drive and stay. They are SO welcoming. We also experienced a great family b&b in courmeyeur but now closed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We’ve been self-catering at half term for the last 4 years. Ruka, Finland with Crystal then 3 DIY trips. San Cassiano, Soldeu and Madonna. Kids are 8 and 9. They do ski school for 1/2 day (always enjoy it) and can nearly keep up with me now. We ski together in the morning or afternoons, or tobogganing/sledding/skidoo’s etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We have a 5yo who happily skis with us all day. Mind you, we're not very good, but we happily tackle harder red slopes together.
The Jufa hotels in Austria are very children friendly. The last one we stayed in earlier this year had an indoor bouldering area and children's play area. After dinner the young fella was off with all the other kids having fun, leaving us to enjoy a few wines.
https://www.jufa.eu/en/
The other thing with Jufas is that they're all a fairly standard level of comfort. What you see in the online photos is pretty much exactly what you receive.
Riesneralm in Austria (not far from Schladming, but a short drive from Salzburg) is where we were in January. The Jufa is just about right on the piste. About 50 metres walk, I've walked further from some carparks at other resorts. The ski school is very good, with a selection of three beginner slopes, serviced by a button lift and a magic carpet.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 3-03-20 15:37; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@rickyp2, after using Esprit we did some independent DIY holidays but did find our children missed the social aspects of Esprit.
So after that we still went DIY but have managed to join other families one of those holidays was doing the SFaB
Friends I have made through Snowheads has helped make these arrangements.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We ditched Esprit after eldest hit 11 and youngest 9. Main reason was cost as needed to go at HT thereafter due to school rules. I think we'd outgrown Esprit anyway as the eldest only put up with lessons to get her badge - and to ski with us in the afternoons. We've self-catered / eaten out since (6 years) with ESF lessons the first year to get the youngest a badge to match her sister and lessons in Canada as the kids really wanted them with a native English speaker. (Much better, apparently!) The kids don't seem to miss the social side of things as they like playing Uni or Pass the Pigs etc. with us on hols and pass the time taking the p*ss out of me!
The last two years have been really good as we have gone with friends, with parents and kids all genuine friends rather than anyone being force to be besties for the week.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The options appear to be:
Different travel company
Do it yourself (drive, Airbnb self catering)
See if friends family are keen to join.
Approach a local club (dryslope club etc) about their trip.
We have done a few of our own (to Megeve and Alpedhuez) and it’s been great. Booked kids into Esf premium lessons (6 per group, all English, only about 20 euro more per week). Got a lovely apartment in Megeve.
This year we went with a ski team to Alpbach. Had a great time.
We finished with Esprit once it went from Esprit exclusive to all hotel plan companies. Being in a chalet with all grownup families when you have a 3 and 6 year old was not great. Final straw was when Rep got drunk on his day off, let himself into the chalet in middle of night and passed out on sofa! Found him as we were having breakfast following morning!
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We've started (as of this year) to go self-catering.
Fed up of average accommodation, average (a best) food and kids having to go to bed early then chatting all evening to randoms who think they’re Bode Miller or Lindsey Vonn.
Used both Esprit and Ski Famille, on balance I'd say Ski Famille were slightly better but only just although their childcare wasn't quite as flexible. Had poor and reasonable experiences with both, main niggles always booked chalet with hot tub, which never worked effectively. Had awful experience with Esprit where veg was brought up from the basement and used in food over several days whilst slowly turning mouldy and filthy kitchen area on more than 1 holiday. We had the area manager in over the state of the food and all received €75 a person compensation. Esprit mini-bussed us to an affiliated hotel in Morzine once as the hot tub in Les Gets was knackered all week. Hot tub in Plagne 1800 was also broken last year staying with Ski Famille and to be honest the kids dinner looked more appetising that the adults.
So on balance, too expensive based on average experience. And hosts a lottery.
In contrast had a fantastic time self-catering with kids, chilled out in the evening they stayed up later and we enjoyed family time (I work abroad a lot so that was great). Ate in/ate out. It was so much more relaxed, granted you have to do a little tidying, I had to fill a dishwasher that was a nightmare!!! Paid the €70 cleaning fee drop in the ocean on a holiday. I filled the fridge with beer for me and made cocktails for the Mrs with spirits we bought in the UK and at the Super U in the valley.
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I amazed that you've all stuck with espirit as long as you have, we did 3 yrs with them (which were good) but by then our youngest, then 7, was skiing all day (lessons am & pm) so no need for child care.
We had been going with other families so switched to self catering in same resort, chosing to drive after fairly appalling airport delay experience on last espirit trip ... never looked back.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think that the option which would suit you best would be a better quality chalet holiday without the childcare included. Have a look at some of the smaller independant catered chalet companies to get a good idea of the sort of things that are out there. At half term any other chalet guests would be likely to have school aged kids too.
Most ski schools in the bigger resorts will offer some sort of lunchtime add on to allow you to ski for a bit longer whilst the children are cared for if you want that; or a lot of parents just pick one day and book a private nanny for that day to allow them a longer ski. Indeed at 10 and 8 depending on their levels you could also just all ski together in the afternoon which might be a nice option.
Alternatively if you want to go with a larger tour operator Neilson would be the obvious follow on from Esprit and would likely have school aged kids staying. But the food/wine etc will be similar to Esprit's offering but it gives you more eating-out time which often works well for a slightly older family.
Happy planning!
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