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Best ski/board insurance including off-piste with guide?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm going on a NonStop course in Fernie, Canada in January, and a week with MINT in the Alps in December.

Both courses include instruction on and off-piste, with their certified instructors, and I am required to have specific insurance that covers off-piste skiing/snowboarding with a guide.

I'm also potentially going to be Cat skiing in Fernie, Canada and would need this covered.

I don't think my normal annual travel insurance with "winter sports" added on is going to be sufficient. I've had a look t a few places that deal with winter sports only, and the prices just for a single trip were pretty high. Does anyone have any suggestions that have worked well for you in the past (relatively cheap!)?


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 10-10-19 21:02; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Annual policy with Mpi or InsureandGo might work.
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LV with winter sports includes offpiste. Never had to claim yet though, which is the only real test of how good the insurance is.
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The Austrian Alpine Club insurance included with the membership covers any mountain sport activity worldwide up to 6000m whether guided or not but the medical provisions might not be enough for Canada. You can extend the cover by paying an additional fee (fairly small depending on duration) to increase the level of medical expenses. Have a look at https://aacuk.org.uk/p-faqs-insurance. The BMC also used to provide pretty good annual mountaineering insurance but not sure that is still the case.
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Some ideas:

https://boughtbymany.com/news/article/insurance-cover-for-off-piste-skiing/

https://boughtbymany.com/news/article/insurers-off-piste-skiing/

https://boughtbymany.com/news/article/top-10-travel-insurance/ (scroll down)
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Try MPI, no need for a guide for off piste as a stated condition. They do all sorts of policy lengths. I booked next season's with them this morning.
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Quote:

LV with winter sports includes offpiste. Never had to claim yet though, which is the only real test of how good the insurance is.


Have claimed from both and both were excellent.

The claim with LV was the more serious involving private air ambulance back to the UK and was handled very efficiently with everything being organised.

The claim with MPI wasn't so involved just being payment for insured items but was handled quickly and efficiently.

Both paid the money element of the claims before I had to pay my credit card.
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It's worth checking if it's cheaper to have 2 single trip policies rather than an annual policy.
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If you are in Ireland, VHI multi trip + snow sports covers you for off piste with a guide, at no additional .
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sugarmoma666 wrote:
It's worth checking if it's cheaper to have 2 single trip policies rather than an annual policy.

I had a weird situation with the SCGB Insurance, where a Multi-Trip World Wide policy, was cheaper than a Single Trip to the USA - where I had to declare a couple of medical issues at the time.

When I asked why, I was told that World Wide didn't necessarily mean I was going to the USA, which was pushing the price up.
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@Old Fartbag, Most of the main insurance companies offer quotes for Europe, Worldwide exc America/Canada, and Worldwide inc America/Canada. My theory was that the risk of litigation in America/Canada was higher, so the liability component was much higher.

My insurance renewal is in December, and I’ve been checking recently as I need cover for 5 weeks on snow this season, and most general companies top out at 21 or 28 days. The more specific companies offer longer periods, but poorer cover everywhere else. I also need sensible medical history cover questions, which range from stupid (SCGB), to common sense (Insure and Go).

I’ve also changed age group range this year, and on one quote the price went from £200 to £260 because I went from 55 to 56 Shocked
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PowderAdict wrote:
@Old Fartbag, Most of the main insurance companies offer quotes for Europe, Worldwide exc America/Canada, and Worldwide inc America/Canada. My theory was that the risk of litigation in America/Canada was higher, so the liability component was much higher.

My insurance renewal is in December, and I’ve been checking recently as I need cover for 5 weeks on snow this season, and most general companies top out at 21 or 28 days. The more specific companies offer longer periods, but poorer cover everywhere else. I also need sensible medical history cover questions, which range from stupid (SCGB), to common sense (Insure and Go).

I’ve also changed age group range this year, and on one quote the price went from £200 to £260 because I went from 55 to 56 Shocked

I was going to The States - so it was World Wide inc America/Canada that I ended up with - but I think you are right. The mad thing is - that I could have taken several trips to The States, for less than the price of one.
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munich_irish wrote:
The Austrian Alpine Club insurance included with the membership covers any mountain sport activity worldwide...


If I'm reading the AAC site correctly their membership year is fixed at 01-Jan to 31-Dec, so going both December and Jan would mean taking out a 2019 membership for the first one trip and renewing for the second - at which point they aren't so cheap.
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Avoid anything underwritten by Travel Insurance Facilities (eg SCGB insurance and perhaps some other prominent ones). Ineptitude seems to be a feature of every department from Emergency Assistance, through claims handling to the Complaints Dpt.
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@Mjit, from memory (and might be wrong here) if you take out membership for 2020 the insurance starts and the beginning of December 2019 and runs to end of January 2021.
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ACC covers getting you off the mountain after injury, medical expenses (low limit compared to some) and repatriation, worldwide. Third party and criminal law liability is only avaliable in Europe. They also make it clear that it is NOT travel insurance, ie it does not cover matters such as travel delays or cancellation of a trip. I have it as a top up alongside MPI mainly a) it comes with membership and b) because I have heard, but not personally tested, that it is recognised by most rescue services in Europe should you need evacuating, so you should avoid the pay now claim later problem I know some have when flashing a UK insurance policy.
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@munich_irish, I think @Mjit is correct. Here’s the text from the AAC website:

“2019 Membership is valid until 31 December 2019. Membership begins at 00.00 hours GMT (aka UTC) on the day after the membership application is processed by the AAC(UK) Office.

However, insurance cover extends until 31 January 2020, but note that, if you have to make a claim for a January incident, you must renew your membership for 2020 by 31 January 2020.”

So if one were to sign up today, the insurance coverage would expire on 31 Jan. But coverage in January only counts if you renew.

In other words, I think for me to get coverage for a trip in December, a trip in January and a trip in April I’d need to pay for 2 years with the AAC but only 1 year with MPI. Am I reading this correctly?
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Thanks for the helpful comments guys.

For annual multi-trip, including North America and off-piste, MPI Brokers gave me a quote of £275 if I wanted belongings/cancellation etc covered. Otherwise £205 if only for winter sports.

LV only unfortunately cover off piste if "within resort boundaries", and specifically does not cover catskiing/boarding. The same seems to apply for all of the options noted on the Bought By Many link posted above, which is a shame as they would have otherwise been great.


I've found ERV (one of the suggestions on the nonstop website) who actually give a completely comprehensive winter sports cover (including ski touring, cat and heli skiing/boarding, off piste with a guide), as well as a pretty comprehensive contents/personal accident/cancellation etc cover for about £180. I think I'll probably end up going with them given it seems to be what I'm looking for and works out better than the others I've seen so far.
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I use insureandgo. So far so good, claimed twice on then, albeit minor stuff.

Heading to the US in 2020 and it was cheaper for me to get a multi trip annual gold policy than a single long trip. Max days per trip is 90 days which covers me sufficiently. In bounds off-pistecover is fine, if going out of bounds may be lacking a tad.

I pay ~£180 for a dual policy covering myself and my other half.
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Just thought I'd add a final post as I've decided who I'm going with and it seems to be cheaper and more inclusive than many of the "specialist" snowsports insurers. Hopefully this will help others in the future.

Asda Travel Insurance Laughing

Their policy states:
Quote:
Winter sports activities
The below are what we class as winter sports activities (see section Q6 on page 31):

Bobsleighing*, cat skiing, cross country skiing, downhill skiing*, freestyle skiing*, glacier walking or trekking (under 2000m), glacier walking or trekking (over 2000m but under 6000m)*, heli-skiing*, ice climbing under 100m (fully supervised)*, ice fishing, ice hockey*, luge on snow/ice*, monoskiing, off piste skiing/snowboarding (except in areas considered to be unsafe by resort management), recreational ski or snowboard racing, skeletons*, ski acrobatics*, ski bob racing*, ski racing or training (non-professional)*, ski stunting*, ski touring (with a guide), ski/snowboard fun parks*, skiing, snow mobiling*, snowboarding and tobogganing.

Please note: Activities in the above list marked with * carry an increased medical excess of £250 and cover under the Personal accident and Personal liability sections does not apply.

You will not be covered if you take part in the following winter sports activities: Ski flying, ski jumping or ski mountaineering.



So basically everything is included with the exception of "areas considered to be unsafe by resort management", ie. this is likely to only be specific areas deliberately closed off by ski patrol due to avalanche risk etc, as "off-piste" skiing/boarding (irrespective of professional guide) is otherwise absolutely fine.

One year multi-trip with winter sports at the highest/superior level of cover (and lower excess amounts) with Asda is about £75 for me, so significantly cheaper than many other alternatives!
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@karansaraf, that is interesting on several accounts:

I always like to see who is the actual insurer. Asda Insurance is an introducer/agent for Insure and Go.

So I did a quote for both Asda and Insure and Go for my family of 4. First thing to note is that both quote systems have a very similar look and feel - which given the previous statement is not surprising. What is surprising is that:

#1 Asda gives three levels of cover (Value, Premium, Superior) and Insure and Go four levels of cover (Budget, Silver, Gold and Black)

#2 Asda's Value cover is cheaper at £48.99 than the Insure and Go's Budget cover at £61.98

#3 Asda's Value cover is as good or better than I&G's Budget cover (Medical Expense £20,000 v £5,000, Personal Liability £2,000,000 v £1,000,000, Personal Accident £20,000 v £10,000

The other thing is just how cheap it is: they advertise that kids are covered free and so for our family of 4 even the most expensive cover is £68.01. I paid more than that for a single trip with MPI in April! For an annual policy with the lowest cover it would well over £200.

One of the reasons for using MPI was there unequivocal coverage of off piste but Asda/Insure and Go seem pretty clear about their cover.

To boot they have an excellent rating on Trust Pilot. Well at least Insure and Go do, no reviews for Asda Insurance that I can see.

It should be noted claims are handled by Travel Claims Services - a private company based in Bristol who seem to work solely for MAPFRE (the owner of Insure and Go).
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@karansaraf, I would query those terms. Note that downhill skiing has an * but skiing doesn't. Also that ski/snowboard fun parks are marked. Those activities have no personal accident or liability sections which can prove to be very important. These are very similar to the Insure and Go Ts&Cs which mean that if you decide to take the route down via the skier cross course you won't have those covers.

If price is very important then take a look at voyager travel insurance - www.skicover.com. About the same price but no funny exclusions.
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@tarrantd

Good spot. Just to state the obvious:

Personal liability covers you injury someone else
Personal accident covers your permanent disablement as a result of accident

Clearly these are must have's if you are going into fun parks.

I presume the downhill skiing just refers to downhill racing.
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@tarrantd, confused by Ski Cover a bit....

They say terrain park insurance is included for "Red" and "Black" policies but when I get a quote they have Bronze, Silver, Gold, Voyager Standard, Voyager Prime and Voyager Black options?
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Hmm yes that is interesting. If you're not covered for personal accident or liability, then what exactly is the insurance covering you for during those activities? Laughing

In any case, I'll be snowboarding on and off piste with a guide, including one day of cat boarding, and won't be doing any freestyle/park stuff. But it is worth finding more out about it.

I'll have a look at InsureandGo too.
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karansaraf wrote:
Hmm yes that is interesting. If you're not covered for personal accident or liability, then what exactly is the insurance covering you for during those activities?


You would still be covered for your medical expenses, which is the main reason for having travel insurance.

Travel insurance personal accident cover does not give you much really; and one would be better with a general personal accident insurance that covers you year round, and for a much larger amount. Some household insurances include this.

But you are spot-on with the lack of personal liability cover. If you were to injure a citizen of the USA say in a "fun park", then you may well find their USA insurance company or lawyers coming after you personally. Not a nice thought.
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Quote:

pat51

Avoid anything underwritten by Travel Insurance Facilities (eg SCGB insurance and perhaps some other prominent ones). Ineptitude seems to be a feature of every department from Emergency Assistance, through claims handling to the Complaints Dpt


Could you be a bit more specific? Was it an accident claim? I've been with SCGB for several years but am thinking of changing to MPI at the next renewal. I would be interested to hear any experience of a serious claim with SCGB as their admin seems a bit chaotic to me. It worries me.
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I have always found all insurance claims departments to be deliberately slow, obtuse and slippery. My successful modus operandi when making a claim is always this:

1. Send them full details of my claim, with a spreadsheet and original receipts etc by RM Special Delivery.

2. Receive a standard letter from them just trying to be difficult.

3. Send them a 14 day warning of legal action in the county court.

4. They pay me in full, pretty quickly.

Works every time snowHead
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
When claiming against other peoples' insurance companies I always seem to have to threaten to issue proceedings,
and they always cave in immediately when I use the magic words, which I assume identify me as a hard target for their scams.

karansaraf wrote:
... I'm also potentially going to be Cat skiing in Fernie, Canada and would need this covered. ..
Some cat operators will sell you evacuation insurance by the day, so you can insure for evacuation to the local ER for a fixed sum.
If you self insure, then the costs for that depend on the circumstances, but around Whistler it could be up to the order of $2k.
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@karansaraf,
Quote:

Just thought I'd add a final post as I've decided who I'm going with and it seems to be cheaper and more inclusive than many of the "specialist" snowsports insurers. Hopefully this will help others in the future.


It seems as if you have drifted off your own subject from wanting the best to wanting the cheapest.

The difference is not a lot of money when you buy but potentially a lot of money when you have to claim. Will a cheap policy re-patriate you from a Canadian hospital after having an accident doing something they specifically don't cover?
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Don't forget your £9 cashback on Asda Travel Insurance with Quidco!

https://www.quidco.com/asda-travel-insurance/?st=asda%20insurance&tr=7289&fn=search-typeahead&fr=multiple&si=26bc2c02-5c97-47bb-a2a8-0d5551ef1403&sv=4-MS&ucb=f7467b5cf5ad2104b36f7bd1535b0db7
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Timc wrote:
@karansaraf,
Quote:

Just thought I'd add a final post as I've decided who I'm going with and it seems to be cheaper and more inclusive than many of the "specialist" snowsports insurers. Hopefully this will help others in the future.


It seems as if you have drifted off your own subject from wanting the best to wanting the cheapest.

The difference is not a lot of money when you buy but potentially a lot of money when you have to claim. Will a cheap policy re-patriate you from a Canadian hospital after having an accident doing something they specifically don't cover?


On the contrary, I have at no point deviated from wanting a policy that will fully cover me for all of the activities that I will be taking part in ie. snowboarding off-piste with a professional guide and cat boarding. I have ruled out multiple (most) providers on the basis of their "off-piste" definition but have found at least two (maybe three) providers who all provide full cover for my activities. Isn't it only logical that if you have more than one option that suits all of your needs, that you would prefer to go with the cheaper one? My definition of "best" inherently takes price into account because (if you accept the assumption that once a provider has satisfied all pre-requisite criteria) the more expensive ones are less "good" than the cheaper but same level of cover ones. Puzzled

Also, I'm spending about 6K on 4 weeks in the mountains this winter. I will admit it is a ridiculous amount but my job doesn't usually let me get out this much and 2020 and 2021 are unique in that they're probably the only years I will have for several decades to get 4 weeks on the slopes (I would normally be able to get 1 or maybe 2 weeks out there), so I'm making the most of it. Therefore I have absolutely no qualms about spending an extra 100/150 on an insurance policy if it truly is better than the cheaper alternative.

Here is my comparison for annual multi trip policies for the two best so far (I haven't calculated this for MPI yet):
Asda Superior cover with winter sports insurance (with NO excess in the event of a claim) = £72.17 vs ERV Insurance Red Rookie (with Adventurer upgrade, which covers off piste, cat and heli skiing/boarding etc.) = £159.81 including 15% discount code


Medical expenses incl repatriation - unlimited vs 5mil
Personal accident - 50k vs 10k
Personal belongings - 2k vs 1k
Abandoning trip - 5k vs 2k
Missed flight - 1k vs 1k
Personal liability - 2mil vs 2mil
Accommodation cover - 1k

Winter specific:
Sports equip - 500 vs 750
Piste closure - 40/day vs 30/day

No excess for Asda, whereas about £75 for each of the above with ERV

There are obviously a lot more things to look at than the small list I've put up there, plus there are nuances with how different companies define "belongings" vs "valuables" vs "winter sports equipment" (ie. which of your possessions will be covered by one defintion but not the others etc) There are also single article limits and differences between curtailment/abandonment/cancellation etc. I've just provided a simple comparison.

It would seem Asda offers the same if not better than ERV in almost every component, and is less than half the price, which in my definition, fits "best" quite well! Because I'm paranoid however, I will be calling the various companies up and asking specific questions before I make my decision. I also have possessions cover away from home with my home insurance (so things like winter sports equipment I own might well be covered under there in the case that I need to make a claim and they won't cover the full cost with the travel insurance policy, not ideal, but a possibility if needed).


I'm very happy to be called out on any things I may have forgotten to think about or gotten wrong however, as that's what these forums are for and why I asked for help!
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diaphon wrote:
@munich_irish, I think @Mjit is correct. Here’s the text from the AAC website:

“2019 Membership is valid until 31 December 2019. Membership begins at 00.00 hours GMT (aka UTC) on the day after the membership application is processed by the AAC(UK) Office.

However, insurance cover extends until 31 January 2020, but note that, if you have to make a claim for a January incident, you must renew your membership for 2020 by 31 January 2020.”

So if one were to sign up today, the insurance coverage would expire on 31 Jan. But coverage in January only counts if you renew.

In other words, I think for me to get coverage for a trip in December, a trip in January and a trip in April I’d need to pay for 2 years with the AAC but only 1 year with MPI. Am I reading this correctly?

Both are correct, but in slightly different circumstances. If you sign up through the Austrian arm of the club rather than the UK one, any new membership from 1st September counts for 2020, so you would only pay once and this is what @munich_irish is referring to http://www.alpenverein.at/portal/news/Septemberaktion/2019_08_26_septemberaktion.php However, this doesn't seem to apply to UK members.

AAC is not really travel insurance, but does have a good level of cover for mountain activities. It's great for those of us who don't need the travel aspect, but I would suggest additional travel insurance or a more comprehensive policy for those who do.
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PowderAdict wrote:
My insurance renewal is in December, and I’ve been checking recently as I need cover for 5 weeks on snow this season, and most general companies top out at 21 or 28 days.


The struggle is real. Planning 2-3 trips of 30+ days and finding a sensible deal is difficult.

Wondering if it makes more sense to get a seasionnaire focused product of 5-6 months single trip but also keeping an eye on these threads for ideas...
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I'm also struggling as I'm away for 12 weeks with a mixture of skiing and mountaineering. Finding cover is a nightmare especially as I need cancellation cover in case I fall on day one, week one and have to cancel the rest. BMC seems to be the best but it's ~£200!
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Ok folks I've actually found an official English translation of the Club Alpine Francais Insurance as the B word might affect our insurance, but I'm pleased to see that similar to the AAC non-Euro residents are covered when taking out insurance if the Worldwide option is taken, which we do anyway as we ski outside of Europe on various occasions.

http://www.fpme.org/webpu/images/Seguros/2019/CAF%202019/Insurance_Leaflet_2018-2019_EN.pdf
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Asda superior cover only covers you for 24 days on a ski trip , only 18 days for lower cover , check if that is enough
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snowxxx wrote:
Asda superior cover only covers you for 24 days on a ski trip , only 18 days for lower cover , check if that is enough


Thanks. That was actually a question I wanted to ask you guys for your opinions.

Let's say I want to go skiing 3 times for 7, 14 and 7 days respectively, 28 days total (4 more than the policy covers).

Assuming I'm not making a claim for every one of these 3 trips, if I have to make a claim on one (or even two) of them, there's really no way for them to know I've been for 28 days that year, rather than 24, so unless I'm missing something, this is only an issue if you have a single ski/boarding trip that is longer in duration than their maximum, right? And if I'm wrong, what have I missed/how can they practically ever find out?
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karansaraf wrote:
snowxxx wrote:
Asda superior cover only covers you for 24 days on a ski trip , only 18 days for lower cover , check if that is enough


Thanks. That was actually a question I wanted to ask you guys for your opinions.

Let's say I want to go skiing 3 times for 7, 14 and 7 days respectively, 28 days total (4 more than the policy covers).

Assuming I'm not making a claim for every one of these 3 trips, if I have to make a claim on one (or even two) of them, there's really no way for them to know I've been for 28 days that year, rather than 24, so unless I'm missing something, this is only an issue if you have a single ski/boarding trip that is longer in duration than their maximum, right? And if I'm wrong, what have I missed/how can they practically ever find out?


This is my understanding, but others here may have better info:

In theory you are right, and for smaller claims, you could most likely get-away with it. But as far as the law is concerned, you might have obtained monies by deception/fraud, and that is a criminal offence. And note that insurance companies are now employing AI and other measures to detect insurance fraud:

https://www.ukri.org/innovation/industrial-strategy-challenge-fund/next-generation-services/intelligent-voice-combating-fraud-with-artificial-intelligence/

https://www.abi.org.uk/products-and-issues/topics-and-issues/fraud/8-myths-about-insurance-fraud/

And should you be unfortunate enough to have to make a very large claim, eg: medical and repatriation expenses of say £350,000 (from a USA ski trip), then the insurance company may well employ an specialist agency to see if they can wriggle-out of the insurance contract somehow, and they will "make enquires" to see if you have adhered to all the terms and have been truthful. It's easy (though not legal) for these agencies to check your credit card and bank statements, and even check which flights you have been on. And of course they can trawl your social media, and ask your employer to declare when you took holidays etc. They could even "invite" you to make a sworn statement in person in front of their lawyer, and unless you are a professional fibber, that can be prove tricky.

In such a situation, where you have skied for say 28 days, but are only insured for 24 days, the whole contract could become void, regardless of what day it was you needed to make a claim for.

I did check with Insure and Go a while ago about they definition of "days", and they said it meant any day or part day you spent actually on the slopes skiing. Not travel days, and not days you spend off the slopes due to bad weather etc. But again, be careful. If I was that "specialist" agency I might even check your electronic ski pass to see exactly what days you skied.

Best to just be honest with your insurance company, and tell them to quote for the max days your are intending to ski. Or perhaps you could just take out a short policy with another insurer for those few extra days; but I'm not sure how that works-out if your first policy is an annual one.
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