I got a pair of Boot Doc for cheap from italy (think it was a clearance as there was only 2x available & luckily one was my size).
I custom fitted them at home for my snowboard boots. Problem with snowboard boots is that they are soft boots. So once I had my foot in my boot, I had to put a plastic bag over the boot & tape it up with a load of gaffer tape so the boot did not expand when the foam expanded. Also made sure I was on a small ramp with my knees bent, to make sure the foam expanded to the correct areas.
Most comfortable boots I have ever owned.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I like the Sidas liners; they are the best I ever had.
Along with Sidas accessories e.g. their really good carbon fibre insoles, they are fairly widely stocked in resorts, whereas Zipfits I never saw anywhere and the dealer map on their website shows why; almost nobody sells them in Europe.
Maybe Zipfits last much longer but how many ski days does the average UK tourist skier manage, per year? With considerable effort and expense one can do 3-4 weeks a year. All skiers I know personally do just 1 or maybe 2 (and none of them post on ski forums ).
Funnily enough I popped into S&R Brighton yesterday and it was really bare. A few years ago they had what today I would call reasonable kit. Now it is mostly stuff you get from any outdoor shop. Some £500 jackets with no useful pockets... Some of the shops in the resorts are simply awesome compared to anything I've seen in the UK, and that includes some sizeable ski shops in London. You pay quite a bit more though. And mail order trumps the whole lot, especially from some German ski outlets.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Peter Stevens wrote:
I like the Sidas liners; they are the best I ever had.
Glad they work well for you. Properly fitted boots is probably the top priority as soon as you come out of beginner rentals.
Out of interest, how many different pairs of liners have you skied in? Properly fitted ones really, not rentals typically doled out to beginners and early intermediated?
Reason I asked re the difference is because so much stuff in the ski business is so obviously snake oil.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I must have had my Zipfits for about seven years now and they improved the fit of boots for me immeasurably. Boots and Zipfits bought from CEM together. (I think @rob@rar was there at the same time but I bet he has been through more pairs than me since then!).
We have skied 5 weeks so far this year, couple more to come.
Which make/model of liner in what make/model boot? What were the differences between them?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Peter Stevens wrote:
Several...
Several different types (foamed, zipfits, Intuition) or several stock liners plus your Sidas liners? The reason I ask is that for someone who has skied for maybe 15 weeks, and is a self-described beginner/intermediate who skis blues and some reds it would be unusual to have experience of the full range of custom kit. I enjoy reading your opinions, and it helps to know what sort of experience you are drawing on when you make your pronouncements.
After all it is free
After all it is free
[quote="Peter Stevens"]I like the Sidas liners; they are the best I ever had.
why whats the difference between them and the current ones?
Ive got some Lange rs130's and the only reason id change iut the liners in them is when or if(i spend all my time in touring boots now)they pack out.
On my zero g the liners seem cheap and made skimpy to keep the weight down. theyll need swapping out deffo.
Maybe Zipfits last much longer but how many ski days does the average UK tourist skier manage, per year? With considerable effort and expense one can do 3-4 weeks a year. All skiers I know personally do just 1 or maybe 2 (and none of them post on ski forums.
im not so sure the average uk tourist skier need custom liners just boots that fit properly
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Mother hucker wrote:
im not so sure the average uk tourist skier need custom liners just boots that fit properly[/color]
That'd be any average (if serious) UK tourist skier who has particularly narrow enough feet, ankles or lower legs that even the narrowest (non race) last (together with stock liners with loads of extra bits of sticky fitter's foam attached) is too big in several places? And that's before they pack down far too quickly...
Though in general, you probably have a reasonable point: for the lucky "average".
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
"not so sure the average uk tourist skier need custom liners just boots that fit properly"
Depends on whether it is actually painful / you get blisters.
If I am heading for a blister, something in the boot definitely does need working on, and it needs to be done same day.
Related to this topic, has anyone had their liners re-heated at some point? It would seem logical that this may be needed some time down the road.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Peter Stevens, if you're getting a blister in an alpine boot then it's a poor fit (ie movement).
And you still haven't answered mine and Rob's questions above.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Guys, I am not answering questions which are set up to beat me up, yet again, so why do you bother.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Peter Stevens, Maybe you would be happier with a blog where you could just record your wisdom without having to worry about replies.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Peter Stevens wrote:
Guys, I am not answering questions which are set up to beat me up, yet again, so why do you bother.
You are happy to 'beat up' snowHeads based on the number of posts they have contributed to the forum, but won't explain your own experience in skiing in order to provide a context for the opinions you freely share. That seems a bit hypocritical to me.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
any liner will take up the shape of your foot over time.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Peter Stevens, you're the one who said that Sidas liners were "the best you've ever had" yet, as Rob mentioned, by your own admission your experience/ability is limited and with a preference for kids length skis - so we simply asked what you're 'liner experience' has been - after all this is the Equipment/Reviews section of the forurm where we geek out on this stuff.
No one's looking to beat you up but that's what you'll get if you post trolling BS.
My own experience of custom liners is limited to one pair of Zipfit liners that CEM fitted to my alpine boots after the factory liners died after 70 odd days (packed out/tongues split etc) but I then only skied the Zippies for a few days before I switched to freeride touring tech boots and I've run my two pairs of those with the factory liners. My current boots are Dynafit Mercury's and they've done about 80 days. Their factory liners are almost universally hated and 99.9% of users of this boot fit a custom liners almost immediately but for me they've been great and are still going strong. So basically my experience of custom liners is basically none.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Peter Stevens wrote:
Guys, I am not answering questions which are set up to beat me up, yet again, so why do you bother.
Best you find somewhere else to lecture people with your unsubstantiated opinion then.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Peter Stevens wrote:
"not so sure the average uk tourist skier need custom liners just boots that fit properly"
Depends on whether it is actually painful / you get blisters.
If I am heading for a blister, something in the boot definitely does need working on, and it needs to be done same day. .
^^^^^that is a load of drivel^^^^^
No one is trying to trip you up but the things you say are just wrong. Its no drama to me if you buy skis that a local junior racer would use or have foam injected liners just like Glen Plake. Its all your lolly and your call.
However you ask a question then tell folks the answers and your justification to your answers is completely wrong.
The reality is you're not a very good or experienced skier and you know nothing about ski tech/gear.
@Peter Stevens, It's the internet, people can be aggressive and offensive all the time. But there is not a single example of that here on this thread. People have requested more information from you – it's what we do, else it's all just guesswork. Nothing to get upset about.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Scarlet wrote:
@Peter Stevens, It's the internet, people can be aggressive and offensive all the time.
Indeed that's true. Equally, some people like to troll to generate that response, which is what Peter is doing. Plenty for observers of human behaviour to get their teeth in to that phenomenon.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Peter Stevens, if we assume you aren't just a troll let's just explore what you are trying to achieve on this forum and the style in which you go about it.
It seems that you are interested in various bits of gear but you have a very esoteric style of initiating discussions:
1 The open ended question
2 The honest responses from people with varying degrees of experience in the matter
3 Rejection of any number of the responses under 2 as you've never seen them in a shop or your shop guy didn't tell you about them
4 The reveal of what you have and that it is the best/ anything else is snake oil
5 complaints that the people who are understandably a bit peeved that you seem intent on 3 from the start are bullying you or apes or too much time on their hands or whatever
6 Repeat with another subject
If this isn't your intention, which looks an awful lot like trolling consider framing your initial contributions to a thread more carefully with more clarity as to the purpose of the question you are asking. In this case if you have Sidas thermo liners and they are working perfectly for you then happy days. No need to diss other options or deny they exist and work for other people. If the real reason you are asking the question is that they aren't working well for you and you want to investigate alternatives why not be honest about that and open minded on the responses you get.
If we take you at your word that you have about 15 weeks of skiing under your belt then you seem to have been through a lot of boots and liners. At around 90 days most skiers would maybe through just about their first stock liner. So I'm sort of guessing that whatever way you are going about gear selection and purchase it isn't necessarily the most efficient.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
or have foam injected liners just like Glen Plake.
For the record, Plake skis in boots 1 size too big, stock liners and a stock footbed with a piece of foam stuck to them. Yes, he could have better, is starting to come around to the idea, but changing after all this time for what will be a certain period of adaption he just can't be fecked.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Dave of the Marmottes, a very reasonably bit of primatology, but he's just trolling so why bother?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Peter Stevens wrote:
Related to this topic, has anyone had their liners re-heated at some point? It would seem logical that this may be needed some time down the road.
Yep. My touring boots are Dynafit TLT6 with intution liners (never used the stock liners as they were really thin). Had them re-heated by the local outdoor shop where I bought them.
Have also reheated the thermo liners of previous touring boots myself in the electric oven at home.
I've reheated them when the fit has started to feel loose either at the heel or ankles.
I've also had strolz alpine boots and their foam injected liners.
My current alpine boots are foam injected by a speacialised boot fitter who first blew out the shell to fit my foot then made me a footbed and foamed the liner.
In my experience …..
Blisters from touring boots are common as you walk in them but never heard of anyone getting blisters from an alpine boot.
The fit of the shell is paramount, if the boot has too much volume for your foot it doesn't matter how good the liner is, or what form of construction it is as it will pack out. I have skinny ankles and feet.
http://youtube.com/v/WZx4GYLS5FE
My foamed liners give me the best support but would be too restrictive from touring. Thermo are more a comfort fit, foamed are more for a race fit - depends what you are looking for.
Not all stock liners are crap - some manufacturers use high quality liners (e.g. Scarpa have used Intuition)
As some people can buy suits without having to get them altered to fit, some people can get away with stock boots and liners. These people are much less likely to see the benefits of custom bootfitting (inc. Shell work, liners, footbeds). Some of us can't find a boot that works well without these services.
There are a lot of people with a lot of experience on Snowheads, if someone comes onto a ski forum and makes bold statements he/she is going to get asked questions. Rather than telling the world what is best for them maybe it's best to say what works for you.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 3-02-20 11:14; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
Rather than telling the world what is best for them maybe it's best to say what works for you.
Booom
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
DB wrote:
... but never heard of anyone getting blisters from an alpine boot.
I had two very deep blisters on the end of both big toes as a result of frostbite, but like you I've never heard of anyone getting blisters as a result of the foot moving inside an alpine boot. It would need to be a spectacularly bad fit to allow that much movement to happen.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
CH2O wrote:
Quote:
or have foam injected liners just like Glen Plake.
For the record, Plake skis in boots 1 size too big, stock liners and a stock footbed with a piece of foam stuck to them. Yes, he could have better, is starting to come around to the idea, but changing after all this time for what will be a certain period of adaption he just can't be fecked.
CH2O wrote:
Quote:
Rather than telling the world what is best for them maybe it's best to say what works for you.
Booom
WTF if this is true why is everyone wasting time having a go at the OP.
The true A-hole is Glenn Plake who for years has been pimping boots for Dalbello and Roxa seemingly without giving a toss how they fit!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
The true A-hole is Glenn Plake who for years has been pimping boots for Dalbello and Roxa seemingly without giving a toss how they fit!
He cares, he cares a lot, however prefers do do his own fettling, the guy loves it, whether it be an engine, a door handle or a ski boot.
He's not alone, over the years we've bought a good few of his ilk down in size, they complain and resist the most, but in the end they're cool. Most recently a ski instructor in CHX, from 28.5 to 24.5, I kid you not. It's not just the public, albeit they were probably "public" before turning pro, however they get as kids into the rutt of feeling shoes that are too big, like to think they know themselves best and often beat us over the head with a list of names of other well regarded Bootfitters and Shops. We're not them, but have the same products and tools. I'm done with the comparisons quite honestly, I've had a bunch of shitty girlfriends but am not against the idea of meeting and bouncing off another one.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
CH2O wrote:
For the record, Plake skis in boots 1 size too big, stock liners and a stock footbed with a piece of foam stuck to them. Yes, he could have better, is starting to come around to the idea, but changing after all this time for what will be a certain period of adaption he just can't be fecked.
My first thought was - is the foam stuck to the inside or outside of the boots?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 3-02-20 13:39; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Peter Stevens,
Quote:
I would not go anywhere near any shop whose employees, or the owner, were posting on social media in such an aggressive and offensive manner.
I insist on it; nodding dogs, sheeples, googlers, are all welcome to the battlefield, not all leave though. (Any)
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
My first thought was - is the foam stuck to the inside or outside of the boots?
Under the arch of his stock footbed. But you have given me an idea.
I'm not aware of a liner that uses a wax filler for the whole liner. Not sure if the wax sets hard (they say 100% flexibility) and am not sure what the advantage of wax over foam is. e.g. Is the wax less likely to pack out or degrade? Do you get more than one shot to form the liner?
or have foam injected liners just like Glen Plake.
For the record, Plake skis in boots 1 size too big, stock liners and a stock footbed with a piece of foam stuck to them. Yes, he could have better, is starting to come around to the idea, but changing after all this time for what will be a certain period of adaption he just can't be fecked.
bad example and rather presumtious of me. Did Sandrine work in your shop or with you at one point?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Peter Stevens wrote:
Along with Sidas accessories e.g. their really good carbon fibre insoles, they are fairly widely stocked in resorts, whereas Zipfits I never saw anywhere and the dealer map on their website shows why; almost nobody sells them in Europe.
A quick look round the main UK ski shops websites (not just EB and SnR) and most of them sell Zipfits.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@davkt, To be fair, make that some of the main independent ski equipment shops ( all south of Preston ). But not all of them by far; and some you have to ask to get them in especially for you, others require you to visit for a fitting. SnR etc don't, nor EB - for many people, they are the 'main' shops.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Grizzler wrote:
@davkt, To be fair, make that some of the main independent ski equipment shops ( all south of Preston ). But not all of them by far; and some you have to ask to get them in especially for you, others require you to visit for a fitting. SnR etc don't, nor EB - for many people, they are the 'main' shops.
Well also to be fair they are relatively high ticket item which require stocking in many sizes so there is a big inventory exposure for something without daily demand and if the average punter in EB and S&R is anything like @Peter Stevens they'll regard them as an overpriced snake oil upsell if the store does suggest to them that they are the best solution for their needs.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
You need to do better, Dave. You have just 26919 posts and I see someone here with over 48000. And he is less aggressive than you are (well, maybe only slightly less) so that must feel really quite depressing. Luckily there is a variety of medications available.
I could help you to get the number up but for the best results I would need to post something in your brexit thread. Talking about skiing just doesn't really cut the mustard. But I won't bother because I have a life.
I know a guy who went around the clock (past 99999), on another forum, and then he did something which p**ssed off the mods and they booted him out. Utterly tragic.
The poor guy never really had a life and now he has none at all. Not many friends on FB either! What saved him from suicide was a membership of a nice cliquey community, just like you have here
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Tue 4-02-20 13:07; edited 1 time in total
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
).
). But not all of them by far; and some you have to ask to get them in especially for you, others require you to visit for a fitting. SnR etc don't, nor EB - for many people, they are the 'main' shops.