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Carre neige saison

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I raise this hesitantly and apologise if there is a definitive answer elsewhere which I’ve not found .

Husband and I are at that happy stage of life where we can spend a lot of the winter skiing in France based in our flat here . We ski more than the time allowed in most winter sports policies .

This year we have a carre neige saison policy . This covers mountain rescue, repatriation etc . However , the medical expenses are expressed to be those not refunded by other insurance. Does this mean that we must take out some other insurance (eg Austrian mountain club) for the carre neige to top up ; or is this interpreted as expenses that aren’t covered by EHIC (the word ‘refund’ worries me here as EHIC doesn’t work like this ).

What do others spending a lot of time in the French alps do for insurance ? It’s the medical expenses and repatriation that we are keen to be covered for - flight /luggage etc are of less concern as we drive here .
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@legalista, I have an MPI seasonaires policy which covers me from 1st December to end April. I have our equivalent of carre neige too for peace of mind.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Carre or Carte Neige is only useful when you are on snow. If you fall in the street or develop a medical condition you need a general policy, EHIC can help but most resort general practices are private so of no use. Like Claude I have Carte Neige and an MPI longstay policy. Carre Neige is also only valid for the resort you buy the pass from and for lift served off piste; Carte Neige covers all resorts and human powered off piste!
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Medical expenses in France can be a surprise even with EHIC.
My wife was taken ill - totally not ski related, spending 3 days in hospital in Bourg st Maurice hospital the total bill for us to pay after EHIC was almost €600, claiming for that on our MPI policy BUT the excess is £250 so we will still be out of pocket.
In France the patient pays a contribution (normally 20%) of the cost.
To see the GP is a flat rate €30 - no surprise that it was a same day appointment and only one other person in the waiting room. Compare and contrast to the queue at the reception desk and standing room only in the waiting room at our GP Surgery when we got back to the UK!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@legalista, yes, Carre Neige will get you off the mountain to 1st point of treatment, no quibble no being asked for security deposits etc etc etc but you also need some travel insurance for everything thereafter.
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Many thanks for this . It is quite a headache (and from my name you will see I have a certain amount of familiarity with legalese!). However

- the saison carre neige does cover medical and hospital care beyond the initial rescue - the table of guarantees refers to ‘reimbursement of medical, pharmaceutical and hospitalisation expenses in addition of the refunds from the national healthcare system or any other organisation ‘.

But ... the warranty flyer then says that these costs will be be paid ‘once you have been reimbursed by your primary healthcare insurance organisation ‘. Further, to benefit from the cover ‘you must have a primary or supplementary health care organisation that can refund partly your medical expenses ‘.

I understand that this fits around the French system where people have to have health insurance . The question for us English types though is whether the reciprocal health arrangements under EHIC are counted as a primary health care organisation thus allowing the part of the claim not covered by the EHIC to be paid .

On the other point about cover for non ski health disasters - luckily my normal travel insurer has confirmed that this is covered under the general insurance and not the winter sports bit , so I don’t have to worry about that .

Clear as mud ? I’ve emailed carre neige about this EHIC point but have not yet had a reply .
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Did I read read that Carre/Carte Neige is only available if you are living in the EU? - If so, does this have implications for after we Leave?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
The warranty flyer has a list of countries to which the repatriation assistance applies and thankfully the uk is in the list. Russia (up to Urals ) as well so it doesn’t seem dependent on eu membership .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@legalista, bottom line is-get Carré Neige and a season MPI policy and you will be as covered as much as you can be, plus take EHIC on the basis that it may cover you for something. That’s what we do.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
@legalista, I'm using as my point of reference my Brother in Law who was living with us for a season so had Carre NIege and on Christmas Day fell and dislocated his shoulder.

Walked into the 1st Aid Post up the mountain who were initially "what insurance cover do you have?" but when we explained "seasonaires and carre neige" there was no further questions, took numbers/details off his lift pass whilst the other guys gave 1st aid.

They quickly said he would be airlifted off, but because of low cloud would have to take him to Annecy or they could try and drop him just above the cloud base in a car park where there were an ambulance who would take him to the medical centre in resort, this was preferential as Annecy was a couple of hours drive, it was Christmas day and we had clients expecting all the trimmings!!

Blood stretcher to helipad, helicopter to car park, ambulance to medical centre and treatment at medical centre all with the assistance of morphine and we never saw an invoice or knew how much it cost.

However, Medical Centre couldn't relocate shoulder so he had to go to Cluses to the Hospital, as he had been on Morphine I wasn't allowed to drive him so our Dr apologised and called an Ambulance who wanted €300 cash before they would set off.

At the hospital in Cluses a quick general anaesthetic, relocated the shoulder, bed overnight and discharged the next morning with drugs to manage pain - big invoice!! part of which was paid through EHIC the balance through travel insurance.

WHen we looked it came back to Carreg Neige got you off and to 1st point of medical treatment, so had the helicopter taken him to a Hospital that would have been covered but as in our case the Medical Centre was 1st Point of Treatment that's where they draw the line and passed the costs over to the Travel Insurers.

Hope this helps.
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Thanks for the replies - very useful . One of the problems is that there are different varieties of carre neige which complicates things rather . I will post something if I get a reply from them about the EHIC point .
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
legalista wrote:
The warranty flyer has a list of countries to which the repatriation assistance applies and thankfully the uk is in the list. Russia (up to Urals ) as well so it doesn’t seem dependent on eu membership .

Be very careful with how you are interpreting this. Repatriation to the UK is only in the event of death. The policy clearly states that it will, "cover the transportation of the deceased to the place in his country of origin where his funeral will take place."

All other clauses state that they will repatriate you to your "home" rather than your country of origin. Your "home" is defined as wherever you were staying before you started skiing on the day of injury. So if you're a seasonnaire, your season accommodation and if you're a punter, your holiday accommodation. In your case, that's your holiday flat, not the UK.

So if you drive from Courchevel to Val Thorens and break your leg, they will drive you back to Courchevel. They won't drive you back to the UK.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Season MPI (or similar) policy as suggested several times above. Very useful and interesting post from @marcellus, about what carre Neige does, and does not, cover.

When spending long period in the Alps I paid extra to extend the trip length on my "free" (sic) bank policy covered.

Be aware that not all motor policies cover long trips. And most UK house insurance policies are restrictive too.

There are a lot of insurance considerations - but it's still a great way to spend your retirement!!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Re motor polices..our normal policy was only valid for 3 months abroad. This season we have a specialist policy to cover us fully comp as the car is out there from Dec to April. Sorry I can’t help with name of insurer a mo. Mr P organised it.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
We have previously used MPI multi-trip cover, with an optional extension of up to 62 days per trip (this option is not obvious on their website until you start filling in details for multi-trip cover). This policy worked out to be cheaper than a full season policy, while enabling us to take a mid season break or breaks. This year, we decided we were staying out for the full season and opted for SkiCover, which was slightly cheaper than MPI but their policy only covers off-piste skiing, without a guide, in the confines of the resort (ie skiing back to a lift), which was adequate for our purposes. I have recently heard that the SCGB insurers will cover extended periods on request, with fairly minimal increases on their standard premiums, which makes them a competitive option. We were tempted to join the Austrian Mountain Club but I believe that their policy only covers up to 80 days per trip.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Raceplate, that's a horrendous prospect - being stuck in your flat without being able to get home... however, I wonder if there are different terms being applied for different versions of Carre Neige? I've looked up mine ( for the Carre neige saison, which is new this year ) and the French text refers to being returned (live, as opposed to dead) to your 'domicile' - which is then defined as 'le lieu d'habitation principle et habitual de l'assure' au jour de sa souscription.' There is then a list of countries which they will cover as your domicile so I think this version of the cover will return you home (also, the blurb refers to the cover as being suitable for second home owners and whilst this is not definitive, it's a useful context for interpreting clauses) - but do let me know if I have missed something! However, I can't find anything in this Carre neige saison that covers third party liability - ie if I crash negligently into another skier and get sued for it. As a cautious type, this worries me so we have joined the Austrian mountain club (we don't stay out for 80 days at a time). Anyhow, thanks for all the comments which have been interesting to think about.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@legalista, first point, I'm happy to be wrong on this but broadly speaking I don't think I am. I used to be the one on here saying carre neige does cover repatriation until I looked into it more closely and now in most cases I'm pretty sure it doesn't; at least not as a UK resident would view the definition of repatriation (i.e. back to the UK). And I have personal experience...

These are my thoughts:
"le lieu d'habitation principle et habitual de l'assure' au jour de sa souscription" translates directly as, "the principal and habitual place of residence of the insured on the day of his subscription". Well, most French ski resorts won't sell you a season pass online, only in person at the ticket office. So your habitual place of residence on the day you buy your season pass and associated saison carre neige is your season accommodation, not your point of origin in the UK.

Clause 5.1 covering repatriation clearly states that any repatriation decision is based solely on medical grounds and the opinion of the local doctor who treated your injury.

So, to compare and contrast French bought saison carre neige with a UK bought insurance policy: let's say you break your leg and need to be in a plaster cast for 6 weeks. A UK policy would say you need to recover from a broken leg at home and pay for you to return to the UK because you bought a UK policy in the UK as a UK resident so clearly the UK is your home.

Carre neige will contact the doctor who plastered you and ask if there are any medical grounds for you to return to the UK and the answer is no. Your broken leg will heal just as well in France as it would in the UK. The Doctor will sanction "repatriation" costs from the hospital to your domicile because you can't ski home with a broken leg and carre neige will define your domicile as the place where you bought the policy which is your season accommodation (or second home).

Now if you were in a coma, I would expect them to recommend a return to the UK because you should be surrounded by family etc. but for the vast majority of skiing injuries there is no medical reason why you would recover any better in the UK than in France so a return to the UK is not medically justified. They're just going to return you to where you bought the policy.

My personal experience of this is with the previous version of the season carre neige that was (still is?) available through the FFS and sold in ESF or tourist offices. The new one is cheaper but the medical T&Cs look the same. The difference is the geographical coverage in that it now only covers the ski area where your season pass is issued.

My second home is in La Tania but I'm dual resident in the UK and Middle East. I dislocated my shoulder in Orelle and was downloaded to St Jean de Maurienne hospital. After relocation, I waited for 3 hours in the waiting room for the doctor who treated me to confirm to carre neige that I couldn't ski home and needed a taxi, which they booked and paid for directly. When I contacted them a couple of days later to ask for a driver to take me and my hire car back to Geneva airport (as repatriation to my home in my eyes) they weren't interested. Returning me to LT from St Jean was repatriation to them.

Moral of the story is that carre neige is worth having just for the lack of hassle and reimbursement paperwork for first line evacuation and treatment. But if your preferred recovery place is outside France, you should combine it with a suitable travel policy from that place.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
Well, most French ski resorts won't sell you a season pass online, only in person at the ticket office.


Are you sure? I've always bought mine for Les Deux Alpes online. My account now has my french address but I bought my first one from my uk address and it was posted to me. My girlfriend also buys her Alpe d'huez pass online and it is then posted to her french home. CdA here and SATA there.

In fact I've just looked and you can buy a 3V pass online with carre neige for only 1336€ Shocked

Here they sell Assur'Glisse rather than carte/carre neige, similar price. It states

Quote:
- Rapatriement : si l’état de santé de l’assuré nécessite un rapatriement, celui-ci est organisé et pris en charge par MUTUAIDE ASSISTANCE du lieu où l’assuré se trouve immobilisé jusqu’à son domicile ou à l’établissement hospitalier adapté à son état de santé en Europe Géographique. MUTUAIDE ASSISTANCE prend en charge les frais supplémentaires de transport des personnes assurées ASSUR’GLISSE SAISON PREMIUM accompagnant l’assuré immobilisé, dans la mesure où les moyens initialement prévus pour leur retour en Europe Géographique ne peuvent pas être utilisés du fait du rapatriement.
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@Claude B, that's changed for the 3V then - they used to insist on season pass in person. Sadly, I haven't been out enough to justify one in the last 3 years.

For your quote above, you need to check the rest of the wording to see if it is based on the treating doctor's recommendation.

I've been thinking about this a bit more and I reckon the long and short of it is they will only cover one repatriation process per injury. So if you're paralysed, coma, broken back etc, and stuck in a hospital bed they're going to recommend that you are repatriated to the UK so you can be a drain on the NHS instead of the French system. If you've just broken your leg, ACL etc. they will repatriate you to your local accommodation.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Raceplate wrote:
My personal experience of this is with the previous version of the season carre neige that was (still is?) available through the FFS and sold in ESF or tourist offices. The new one is cheaper but the medical T&Cs look the same. The difference is the geographical coverage in that it now only covers the ski area where your season pass is issued.

Are you sure that you didn't have Carte Neige back then, not Carre Neige ? Carte Neige is still available with several different levels of cover.
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Might have been. It was whatever the tourist office sold for the season in 2016/17.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Raceplate, Tignes and Val d'Isere Season passes available on-line (with said insurance) and can be posted out to the UK.
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