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Passport requirement post Jan 31

 Poster: A snowHead
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We are travelling to Munich and on to Austria on Feb 1st and we've found out that my wife's passport expires mid July this year.
The Gov website states that a minimum of 6 months before expiry is required to travel to the EU post Jan 31 IN THE EVENT OF NO DEAL. Anyone have a definitive answer of whether I need to the emergency 1 day renewal or will we be ok? As far as I know there is currently no 6 month requirement to travel to the EU and I believe nothing will change or is that just blind hope?
The Post Office have been told nothing, the Passport Office were totally non committal (i.e. they didn't know) and the website is unclear. I also got differing opinions from 2 different areas of Lufthansa ( 3 month vs 6 months)

I can't believe we are going to be the only ones caught with this dilemma and that surely an advisory would have been sent to the Post Office if there were going to be different rules?
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As there's still no definitive answer on whether we actually have a deal with the EU then it's still a risk that it could be a problem for your wife...or it could not. I don't think there's an official line (which is why they were non-committal) so you're potentially at the mercy of whoever is checking the passport. Personally I wouldn't want to risk it
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Here is my understanding:

While a Member, strictly speaking, one should be able to travel if the Passport is in date....though it's safer to have 3 months.

Nothing should change during the Transition Period, which lasts until the end of this year.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 22-01-20 10:40; edited 1 time in total
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Boris has a deal, (albeit a poo-poo one) we enter transition stage negotiations and nothing changes whilst they hammer out our "new relationship" in an unfeasibly small time window
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@Old Fartbag, +1
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My passport technically expired in June - but that was with additional months added in as I renewed earlier last time. If I took the date of issue plus 10yrs it expired in Feb. We are going on holiday in mid Feb - decided it just wasn’t worth the risk of not renewing so I have renewed it already - it is only £7.50 per year and I am only loosing 6 months, £3.75
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The deal which would take us into the transition period has not been formally agreed by either side as yet. Without the deal there is no transition period. Having said that it is very unlikely now that the proposed deal will not be agreed and thus very likely that we will go into the transition period.
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t4tomo wrote:
Boris has a deal, (albeit a poo-poo one) we enter transition stage negotiations and nothing changes whilst they hammer out our "new relationship" in an unfeasibly small time window


Wrong. Boris has a proposal, it isn't a deal until both sides have agreed. That's supposedly unlikely, but we're currently still in a position where we leave the EU at the end of the month with no deal in place.
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t4tomo wrote:
Boris has a deal, (albeit a poo-poo one) we enter transition stage negotiations and nothing changes whilst they hammer out our "new relationship" in an unfeasibly small time window


Doesn't have a deal until the Queen signs the Act into Law, and she can't do that until the Act has passed through Parliament.
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@robandliza,
Does this help?

https://www.gov.uk/check-a-passport-for-travel-to-europe
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SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
t4tomo wrote:
Boris has a deal, (albeit a poo-poo one) we enter transition stage negotiations and nothing changes whilst they hammer out our "new relationship" in an unfeasibly small time window


Wrong. Boris has a proposal, it isn't a deal until both sides have agreed. That's supposedly unlikely, but we're currently still in a position where we leave the EU at the end of the month with no deal in place.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/brexit-transition-period

"The withdrawal agreement specifies that the transition period will last until the 31st December 2020."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50838994

"And on 20 December 2019, MPs voted 358 to 234 - a majority of 124 - in favour of the PM's Withdrawal Agreement Bill, which now goes on to further scrutiny in Parliament."
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@robandliza, Of course it's easy to say if it's not your passport - i can't see UK authorities not letting UK citizens back in...and nor can i see Austrians not letting UK citizens in either...
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@Old Fartbag, "Assuming the European Parliament also gives the green light, the UK will formally leave the EU on 31 January with a withdrawal deal."

Have I missed this then? Last time I checked it hadn't actually had approval from the EU yet...in fact I'm not even sure it's gone through the Lords either.
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You know it makes sense.
I expect that neither German or Austrian immigration officers will care but the airline might if they are on the ball. Now chances of your average check in clerk being overly zealous about something that may or may not have come into force a few hours before pretty slim I'd say. Personally I'd chance it and if it all goes tits up just go and yell at your nearest Brexit voting neighbour/relative.
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SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
@Old Fartbag, "Assuming the European Parliament also gives the green light, the UK will formally leave the EU on 31 January with a withdrawal deal."

Have I missed this then? Last time I checked it hadn't actually had approval from the EU yet...in fact I'm not even sure it's gone through the Lords either.

As I understand it - This is based on May's WA, which was agreed by the EU (but not our Parliament until Johnson won his majority).

The cliff edge has moved to the end of this year, where there are 3 possible outcomes:

1. An extension (Politically unpalatable)
2. Crash Out with no deal in place
3. Remain closely aligned in order to get the Trade Deal done quickly
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Old Fartbag wrote:
SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
@Old Fartbag, "Assuming the European Parliament also gives the green light, the UK will formally leave the EU on 31 January with a withdrawal deal."

Have I missed this then? Last time I checked it hadn't actually had approval from the EU yet...in fact I'm not even sure it's gone through the Lords either.

As I understand it - This is based on May's WA, which was agreed by the EU (but not our Parliament until Johnson won his majority).

The cliff edge has moved to the end of this year, where there are 3 possible outcomes:

1. An extension (Politically unpalatable)
2. Crash Out with no deal in place
3. Remain closely aligned in order to get the Trade Deal done quickly


This is true, once and if the current proposal is formally approved by both sides. Which It hasn't currently been by either. Again with the caveat that it is now extremely unlikely that either side will not agree to the current proposal.
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Thanks all
@Kenzie I think this is what is unclear as it is if there is no deal

I think I'll have to pay up and get the one day option
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@Old Fartbag, as wills says, the fact that it hasn't been properly agreed by both sides means that the WA isn't in place, it's just the EU verbally agreed with TMs proposal, which was then tweeked by BJ and sent back. Nothing is legally in place. Therefore the cliff edge is still January 31st 2020, it's just that the UK are planning to grab the wheel and drive perpendicular to the cliff until December 31st Laughing ...but until that point, we're still heading towards the cliff.

As DOTM says, I don't think Austrian or German border control will care but the ones in the UK might be a bit more picky when you're coming back in.
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First, I'd always advise being within the rules when flying: the airline has the liability for assuring your passport is valid. You're not going to get anywhere, arguing with a checkin rep that they should let you fly if their checklist says your passport is dubious, or simply invalid.

Second, are we possibly conflating two different issues? The overriding one is that the date of expiry on a passport can be misleading - if you renewed your passport before it's previous expiry date then the date shown on the passport is misleading for any country requiring {x} months validity when you enter. This because the 'unused' months get added to the expiry date but the real expiry date is the renewal date +10y or whatever i.e. you lose the unused months, but this isn't reflected in the expiry date This is apparent if your valid from and valid to months are different.

And then there's the 'In the event of a No Deal Brexit' conditions, which overlap with the above.
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SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
@Old Fartbag, as wills says, the fact that it hasn't been properly agreed by both sides means that the WA isn't in place, it's just the EU verbally agreed with TMs proposal, which was then tweeked by BJ and sent back. Nothing is legally in place. Therefore the cliff edge is still January 31st 2020, it's just that the UK are planning to grab the wheel and drive perpendicular to the cliff until December 31st Laughing ...but until that point, we're still heading towards the cliff.

As DOTM says, I don't think Austrian or German border control will care but the ones in the UK might be a bit more picky when you're coming back in.

The last thing that the EU wants, is no Transition Period - so they are not going to crash it.

It is true that the WA hasn't fully made its way through Parliament, but this is Johnson's version and he has a huge majority - so in theory it might not happen; but in reality, it almost certainly will.
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@robandliza, my husband flew out with his brother this time last year for a ski w/e. BIL passport just shy of 6/12, BA refused to let him board due to their policy. Husband quietly, firmly, but politely, escalated to senior management citing EU legislation and they got on the flight (they were lucky, as it is discretionary)...On returning back from skiing this Christmas I was told by UK passport control I had to have a new passport for Feb half term as mine expired end of June. It’s a pain, but not a chance I wanted to take...if you can, it’s peace of mind.
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DJAT wrote:
@robandliza, my husband flew out with his brother this time last year for a ski w/e. BIL passport just shy of 6/12, BA refused to let him board due to their policy. Husband quietly, firmly, but politely, escalated to senior management citing EU legislation and they got on the flight (they were lucky, as it is discretionary)...On returning back from skiing this Christmas I was told by UK passport control I had to have a new passport for Feb half term as mine expired end of June. It’s a pain, but not a chance I wanted to take...if you can, it’s peace of mind.

Thanks DJAT....does this all change now after last night's vote?
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LaForet wrote:
First, I'd always advise being within the rules when flying: the airline has the liability for assuring your passport is valid. You're not going to get anywhere, arguing with a checkin rep that they should let you fly if their checklist says your passport is dubious, or simply invalid.

Second, are we possibly conflating two different issues? The overriding one is that the date of expiry on a passport can be misleading - if you renewed your passport before it's previous expiry date then the date shown on the passport is misleading for any country requiring {x} months validity when you enter. This because the 'unused' months get added to the expiry date but the real expiry date is the renewal date +10y or whatever i.e. you lose the unused months, but this isn't reflected in the expiry date This is apparent if your valid from and valid to months are different.

And then there's the 'In the event of a No Deal Brexit' conditions, which overlap with the above.


I was advised by a travel agent very recently that when Brexit is complete that they - the EU countries - will not take into account extensions in a passport due to early renewal and that it will be considered to be valid for (say) 10 years from the issue date, whereas other countires may consider the expiry date the valid to date .
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Check your passport at this GOV.UK website Check a passport for travel to Europe after Brexit
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nigelg wrote:
Check your passport at this GOV.UK website Check a passport for travel to Europe after Brexit

Yes thanks Nigelg but that is in the event of no deal, which is where all the confusion arises

Last night I was in the "it'll all be alright and to not renew" but not so sure now. It's just such a pain
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robandliza wrote:
nigelg wrote:
Check your passport at this GOV.UK website Check a passport for travel to Europe after Brexit

Yes thanks Nigelg but that is in the event of no deal, which is where all the confusion arises

Last night I was in the "it'll all be alright and to not renew" but not so sure now. It's just such a pain


Seriously why not renew. Loosing 6months is loosing £3.75! I spend far more than that in travel insurance and I looked at this cost in the same way
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It really depends upon how much risk you are willing to take. If zero risk then definitely get it renewed. As I think others have alluded to the greatest probability at the moment is that the withdrawal agreement will be ratified by both the UK and the EU and we will enter into the transition period. During which time nothing will actually change and the passport will be fine to travel on. If I were a betting man I'd currently put it at around 98% to entering the transition period to 2% not.
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Although I've probably just jinxed it by writing that down Madeye-Smiley
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NickyJ wrote:
robandliza wrote:
nigelg wrote:
Check your passport at this GOV.UK website Check a passport for travel to Europe after Brexit

Yes thanks Nigelg but that is in the event of no deal, which is where all the confusion arises

Last night I was in the "it'll all be alright and to not renew" but not so sure now. It's just such a pain


Seriously why not renew. Loosing 6months is loosing £3.75! I spend far more than that in travel insurance and I looked at this cost in the same way


Because they're travelling in a few weeks so it's also the cost of the express application.
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SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
NickyJ wrote:
robandliza wrote:
nigelg wrote:
Check your passport at this GOV.UK website Check a passport for travel to Europe after Brexit

Yes thanks Nigelg but that is in the event of no deal, which is where all the confusion arises

Last night I was in the "it'll all be alright and to not renew" but not so sure now. It's just such a pain


Seriously why not renew. Loosing 6months is loosing £3.75! I spend far more than that in travel insurance and I looked at this cost in the same way


Because they're travelling in a few weeks so it's also the cost of the express application.


Ah! We did ours in December but it was back within 1 week on normal amazingly!
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This article seems to explain everything. https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-passport-travel-driving-licence-insurance-health-care-mobile-roaming-a9286176.html

Having said that it's probably what random policy the airline company applies that matters, so I would renew if I were in your position.
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I renewed my sons very reason even though I had a few months to go. Not worth the stress.
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ronnierocket wrote:
I renewed my sons very reason even though I had a few months to go. Not worth the stress.


Same as me - did it a few months back before the rush. Came back in about 3 days IIRC using the standard service. May be busier now though.
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Have just done 3 renewals, 2 were due to expire in June and 1 in early August. We travel on Feb 14th.

Annoying I know but nowhere near as annoying as being turned around at Dover with a fully packed car, 4 sleeping kids and a 5 hr drive home with no skiing at the end of it!
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NickyJ wrote:
robandliza wrote:
nigelg wrote:
Check your passport at this GOV.UK website Check a passport for travel to Europe after Brexit

Yes thanks Nigelg but that is in the event of no deal, which is where all the confusion arises

Last night I was in the "it'll all be alright and to not renew" but not so sure now. It's just such a pain


Seriously why not renew. Loosing 6months is loosing £3.75! I spend far more than that in travel insurance and I looked at this cost in the same way


As Snoodles mentions, we fly on Feb 1st so to be safe will have to do the 1 day turn around which requires going to the passport office after booking an appointment and forking out £177
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For OH and me, one of us has Irish and one has UK passport both expire in August and we're travelling in March (so one of us might not be allowed out and one of us might not be allowed back in Laughing ). Although probably not necesary, we've just renewed both anyway, just in case of some old nonsense somewhere.
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From the UK Government website for France, updated today:

Quote:
Check your passport is valid for travel before you book your trip. Your passport should be valid for the proposed duration of your stay; you do not need any additional period of validity on your passport beyond this.

You’ll need to renew your passport before travelling if you do not have enough time left on your passport.

The rules on travel will stay the same until the end of the implementation period on 31 December 2020. During this time you can continue to travel to countries in the Schengen area or elsewhere in the EU with your UK passport.
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I fly on the 1st Feb. After reading on the GOV website I’m not going to risk as my passport expires 6th July. I have an appointment in Newport on Monday for a quick passport. A nice £177 for the privilege.
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I fly on the 1st Feb. After reading on the GOV website I’m not going to risk as my passport expires 6th July. I have an appointment in Newport on Monday for a quick passport. A nice £177 for the privilege.
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Note that its not when your passport expires that is important! it's when it was issued. Its only really valid 10 years from issue date on mine. When I used https://www.gov.uk/check-a-passport-for-travel-to-europe it highlighted that mine is actually only valid to travel up to exactly 9.5 years after its issue date even though its valid for almost 11 years i.e. 1.5 years before it expires, its virtually useless because of the rule of having to have 6 months on your password to travel most places which then alings with 10 years from issue


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Thu 23-01-20 19:42; edited 2 times in total
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