Poster: A snowHead
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After 4 seasons of skiing my kids have tried out snowboarding in a 2 hour private lesson and loved it (got to be like daddy). We’re back on the snow in February and I would really like them to wear wrist guards. I’m coming across a slight issue as they are 7&8 and apparently children that age don’t snowboard according to the online shops and where we live there’s not much option otherwise. Any suggestions??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Are Demon Flexmeters available in kid sizes?
Otherwise you can look at skate shops. Ive seen tons of kids on rollerskates with knee, wrist & elbow protection
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@MouseInLux, as above, skateboard wrist guards quite cheap.
Also some gloves include wrist protection, though personally I don’t think they’re usually as comfortable or well fitting as separate guards.
I’d insist on them wearing wrist guards when boarding.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Never been a big fan of wristguards and, as far as I can recall, never seen any authoritative study that concludes they actually help, although I'm open to being corrected.
IIRC I even read something a while back where it suggested they just moved the potential injury up into the lower arm ....... but if you're happy with them by all means buy them for you kids.
When I've helped people with their 'boarding one of the first things I look at is the way they drop down onto the snow ...... almost always it's with fingers outstretched.
Extend your fingers, and then ball them up into a fist ....... you just halved the leverage ratio on your wrist in any impact.
It's counter intuitive but learning to ball up your hands into a fist when falling, or even when dropping back onto the snow, IMO is one of the best ways to avoid wrist injury.
We're often accused of being knuckle draggers ....... might as well prove the point.
AAJMHO
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I agree with BCjohnny. Those wrist pads in the link are not going to do much against a bigger impact (enough to break a bone). A more rigid pad with strong splint is likely heavy, uncomfortable, and just move the injury up the arm (see "splint top" fractures in inline skaters using similar pads).
The better option is to teach them how to fall properly.
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I'm going to somewhat disagree. Yes, teach them to fall properly, but instinct is instinctive and they will do it.
I do recommend basic wrist guards to people who are beginning as it does help with picking up bruises on the palms and ball of your hand (the fleshy bit at the base of your thumb) which take a pounding not just falling but getting up again.
As for the fracture transfer issue, the bones in the hand and wrist are much more prone to injury than the arm bones are, so if you're having an incident that results in a break in the arm, the damage to the wrist would have been really bad.
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@boarder2020, @BCjohnny,
Wrist Guards l protect more than just your wrist though.
Lots of bones in your hand to break like your scaphoid. You are pretty much going to have life long issues if you damage that bone!
Flex Meters are flexible, so they protect your hand & wrist, but they do also bend a little to act as a shock absorber, rather than being rigid.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hubby gave them falling lessons before the actual teacher arrived but as you know, kids are kids and instinct is instinct. My husband rides with level gloves with the integrated guards even after years of riding and wouldn’t go without.
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BCjohnny wrote: |
Never been a big fan of wristguards and, as far as I can recall, never seen any authoritative study that concludes they actually help, although I'm open to being corrected....
IIRC I even read something a while back where it suggested they just moved the potential injury up into the lower arm ....... ... |
Google shows several studies suggesting that especially for early stage learners such things do reduce the risk of wrist injury.
The source of the meme about upper arm injuries is also in the first page of results for simple google searches.
That was not statistically significant, and has not been repeated from a brief look at the Google results.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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wrist is joint, many small joints, lingaments, small bones. Very fragile, never heals up to 100% if something happens with joint/lingaments. I would take "moved the potential injury up into the lower arm" every time, ask me how I know
there is nothing better than broken straight bone, nothing worse to damage joints. So even worst possible wrist guards will be better than nothing. They will keep the most fragile and hardest healing part of the hand intact.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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In my own experience my kids never broke a wrist wearing those guards, but they didn’t always use them, and the two of them have had maybe 5 or 6 broken wrists from snowboarding. So the guards probably worked ok.
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First off ...... I'm not saying wrist guards don't flat out work ...... it was more of a I don't think they're the fail safe some people assume they are.
In the modern world there seems to be this mantra of buying a 'solution' to a 'problem', when a more prosaic approach might yield better results.
If wrist guards make you happy buy 'em ...... but don't see them as an alternative to teaching proper technique.
kosmoz wrote: |
I would take "moved the potential injury up into the lower arm" every time, ask me how I know
there is nothing better than broken straight bone, nothing worse to damage joints. |
Tell me about it ...... I had my femur pushed through my pelvis because it refused to break and took the easier option ...... I'd have much preferred it to snap despite in itself being a relatively serious injury.
philwig ...... happy for you to post links up for that stuff so we can all see the veracity of the studies ....
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You know it makes sense.
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@BCjohnny,
easy to say fall right, sometimes that it is not an option! You can be wiped out on your back bottom before you even know what happened.
It's not about a solution to a problem, it's about mitigating the risk. I wear padded shorts (so do my buddies) & Level gloves with the biomex. I gave me flexmeters to a mate, as they did not fit with my gloves.
I still try to fall right - though my method is to try to fall on my wrist-elbows (bring my arms in so there is a big impact area to absorb).
You still wear a helmet? Why bother... just learn to fall right.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Mr.Egg
Helmet is absolutely essential IMO ..... regardless.
I also were crash pants, religiously ...... I have body armour but most time it sits back in the room.
The point I'm making about wristguards, and no-one has yet posted anything up that might indicate otherwise, is that they're considered of marginal benefit.
The OP has said he's had trouble obtaining a child's pair ...... basic economic reality would dictate that if they're were the must have that some reckon the market would be awash with them.
I'm teaching a 5 yo to 'board for the first in a couple of weeks time ...... wristguards haven't figured in the planning.
But, hey, it's a free world ....... buy 'em if it makes you happy.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I have been boarding since 1999. I have tried full wrist guards (6 days), the gloves with the plastic insert on the palm (12 days), regular gloves and mittens etc..
I didn't get along with the guards, as they were a faff to get gloves over, not terribly comfy and just another thing to worry about.
The integrated ones I got along with, until my gloves were very wet one day and I dried them on the radiator only for the plastic guard to melt and deform.
Since then I have done 500+ days just with regular gloves.
When our kids learnt they had wrist guards on day-one, but the instructor said not to bother with them again.
Touch wood, I have never had a hand injury in that time ( concussion x 2, cracked ribs, bruises all over..).
Kids have 1800 days between them - same.
So I tend to be very much in agreement with @BCjohnny, that if you want to wear them go ahead, but of all the things to worry about when snowboarding it's very low down in the priorities.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Once you get beyond a certain point then they aren't going to be bringing anything to the party... But for early doors riders then yes, I think its worth it.
Ebay has plenty of basic protectors which will do the job you can but the kit skateboarders use and just put a ski glove or mitt over the top. They cost about a tenner and come with knee and elbow pads too. Knee ones may be useful but may shift about under ski pants to be more bother than worth.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@BCjohnny,
Ive smashed my hand on hard ice. Xray was inconclusive & had to have a bone scan. It was explained to me that bone they was looking at would probably die if its is damaged & would leave long term damage/pain & a good chance of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
I was lucky, but the bruising hurt like hell. Constant pain similar to toothache in my hand!
I did not buy guards to protect my wrist, but the small bones in my hand. Up to that point, I did not think wrist guards was needed!
This is the biomex found in level gloves - it protects the main bones in the hand, as well as the wrist. Its not about protecting from a break, but the ligaments & nerves in your hand.
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BCjohnny wrote: |
Tell me about it ...... |
had Lunate fractured (just a crack) and some ligaments torn after a bad landing (bend and rotation at the same time), ligaments were reattached, did my absolute best at recovery and this is all flexion I got, flexing other side is ok, can do pushups, bench press etc.
My GF had radius bone broken just before the joint, surgeon pined the bones like a kebab, 2 months imobilised, after 4 weeks she got all flexibility back, could touch forearm with thumb.
[img]https://imgur.com/8WPyOZP[/img]
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There are definitely some studies that found lower injury rates in people wearing wristguards. However, the biomechanical studies generally show they are not much use? Why the inconsistency? One interpretation is that people opting to wear risk pads are generally more cautious, and therefore make better decisions and take less risks.
I understand that putting a hand out as your fall is instinctive, but that doesn't mean you can't learn to override this and fall properly. My concern would be putting a wrist guard on someone only enforces the idea to put their hand out when falling.
The numbers I've seen suggest the risk of wrist injury is highest in beginners, but even for them is only 2%, with only half on those being "serious" and half being bruises and light sprains. So while wrist injuries are a problem they are perhaps not as common as some think (not that this matters if you happen to be the one injured).
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my GF broke her wrist in a situation I could not believe something serious could happen. She is a regular, rides left foot forward, it was a very last run, home run you can say, low speed, blue run and on a must be toe side turn she kept board flat, caught heel edge and broke right wrist. i was following like 5-8 meters behind. Left hand must have been the first to hit the ground, but still, she broke right wrist. I call it lucky, because it was just a straight bone broken, joint ant ligaments stayed in place.
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Ball your hand up ... reduce the leverage ratio.
Anyone with a basic grasp of physics can see where the injuries come from .....
Still waiting for someone to put up a validated study confirming the 'wristguard' benefit.
Until then it's all just opinion ..... mine included .......
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Mr.Egg wrote: |
@BCjohnny Ive smashed my hand on hard ice. |
Not even in the same league, baby .....
You show me yours ...... I'll show you mine .......
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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BCjohnny wrote: |
... philwig ...... happy for you to post links up for that stuff so we can all see the veracity of the studies ....Still waiting for someone to put up a validated study confirming the 'wristguard' benefit... |
<laughs> I do hope you're holding your breath.
It took me about a minute to find the data you need, so you'll be fine.
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Maybe, but does wrist guard use lead to an increase in risk taking behaviourrrrrrr?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Is this a helmet thread in disguise.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I’m enjoying this thread, been struggling with a wrist injury since beach volleyball was in the Olympics
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fall this, fall that, investigate leverage this and that, if everything was so controlled, nobody would ever need not only protections, but water proof pants/jacket/gloves, because nobody would ever fall in the first place.
I was jumping medium kicker line two days in a row, then decided to take a small one, but took it with the speed of medium line, got kicked unexpectedly high, scared out, panicked, lost balance, landed sideways on heel edge, smashed so hard my helmet stayed in place, goggles got of my head, wrist was in a way, was bent and rotated, ligaments torn, slightly dislocated, lunate cracked.
All my life in sports, grappling/BJJ/judo included, know how to fall, but not when everything goes sideways unexpectedly. Had much harder falls in my riding "career", but they were anticipated, if you can tell, and even 70 km/h fall was not a biggie, winded out from a hit, 2-3 min and back going strong. At one occasion cracked snowboard nose straight from the binding, hit a tree. Was fun.
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You know it makes sense.
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hang11 wrote: |
I’m enjoying this thread, been struggling with a wrist injury since beach volleyball was in the Olympics |
Lemsip should help with that.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Quote: |
know how to fall, but not when everything goes sideways unexpectedly |
Yes, but in the case of a big impact the biomechanical testing (they took cadaver arms and stressed them until the injury occurs) suggests the wristguard doesn't help anyway. So learning how to fall seems like the best option, although I agree that it's not always going to happen in reality.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Second time: I would rather have both radius and ulna broken and left with hand hanging on a tube of skin, than have wrist joint and ligaments trashed.
A guy next bed in hospital had that, surgeons pined both bones like a kebab, scars only size of a small hole, wrist will work ok after 4-8 weeks.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Quote: |
Second time: I would rather have both radius and ulna broken and left with hand hanging on a tube of skin, than have wrist joint and ligaments trashed.
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That's fine but you would need quite a robust protector, basically a cast on your hand locking your wrist in place. Most of the protectors people are wearing don't seem to be that robust - I imagine due to weight and discomfort.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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boarder2020 wrote: |
Quote: |
Second time: I would rather have both radius and ulna broken and left with hand hanging on a tube of skin, than have wrist joint and ligaments trashed.
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That's fine but you would need quite a robust protector, basically a cast on your hand locking your wrist in place. Most of the protectors people are wearing don't seem to be that robust - I imagine due to weight and discomfort. |
why do you have perception you need to have something "bulletproof" in order to stay uninjured? Did every fall or hit you took had you injured? Do you need full armor to save your car front paint and headlights protected from sand/debree? You don't, thin film is enough.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Burton have a couple of types which appear to start quite small. My lad would prefer not to use them as they are uncomfortable but his Mum says otherwise. They will need a lot bigger gloves though which may be too big to work effectively.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Quote: |
why do you have perception you need to have something "bulletproof" in order to stay uninjured? Did every fall or hit you took had you injured?
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I think you need to reread the thread. I don't wear wrist pads and gave the stats about how serious wrist injuries are actually pretty uncommon. My point is you can wear a standard wrist guard, but the biomechanical research suggests it's not going to help against any impact large enough to cause a serious injury (i.e. the "trashed" ligament joints you want to avoid). The type of wrist guard to fully protect the risk from this injury (and transfer the impact higher up the arm) would need to be extremely stiff.
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philwig wrote: |
BCjohnny wrote: |
... philwig ...... happy for you to post links up for that stuff so we can all see the veracity of the studies ....Still waiting for someone to put up a validated study confirming the 'wristguard' benefit... |
<laughs> I do hope you're holding your breath.
It took me about a minute to find the data you need, so you'll be fine. |
<yawn> Still waiting .......
In some ways I'd be glad that the evidence would back wristguards being a help ..... anything that makes snowboarding safer has got to be worth it, but in this case I doubt it
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Surgeon, who accepted my gf in Les Arcs 1600 station, told he was participating in a study, where they researched effectiveness of different kind of wrist guards, strongly advised to get Demon Flexmeter double sided wrist guards, as they proved to work best. In his words, Level are better than nothing, but does not compare to Demon, because demon braces wrist from two sides. Didn't have any merch on himself or in his office that would scream he is a paid shill from Demon, is a skier himself, in his thirties, so young and maybe still curious.
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