Instructor course or…something else?

A snowHead

Hello everyone!

I'm planning on taking a season off to return to the mountains and I've been trying to figure out whether I should do a ski instructor course of not, perhaps some snowheads might be able to give me some advice. Very Happy

For some context, I've got two seasons under my belt, but I wasn't really happy with my ski progression on either. First season I was working a lot and took some sporadic classes; second season I had the luck not to work, but the snow was disastrous and I didn't get to advance much. This time around, I'd like to leave having gotten to the best level of skiing possible, both on and off-piste.

As such, I've been considering doing a ski instructor course, as it seems like a good way to ensure specific and dedicated coaching over a long period with a solid technical objective at the end? However, I'm worried that I'll be wasting my time during some aspects, since I have no actual interest in ever being an instructor. It just seems like a convenient way to solidly improve my level.

The other option would be to try and find an instructor who I could pay privately over the same period, but it seems to be a bit more of a gamble and organisationally a lot more complicated. Also, I'd be limited to spending around the same as I would on the ski instructor course, and private lessons add up very quick when you do them over the course of several weeks, so I probably would end up with less coaching at the end of the day (which would be more individual, but with a randomly-chosen instructor)…

So…any snowheads got advice, from past experience or otherwise?

Thanks (and happy new year!!).

Edit: I'll be doing my season in the Southern hemisphere (Argentina/Chile) so a lot of the established long-length courses from N. America and Europe aren't on offer.

A snowHead

Unless your end goal is to be an instructor I don't think it's the best use of your time. Yes you will improve, but a lot of the course is not aimed at making you a better skier, but a better instructor.

Some North America resorts off an unlimited lesson package, which can be good value if you want to take a lot. There are also some longer courses e.g. nonstop snow (they are often a little pricey though. North America is always going to cost more but more snow on average and controlled off-piste means you should be able to get some good off-piste conditions and don't have to worry about finding partners and avalanches and can focus solely on the skiing side.

Most affordable way might be to string a few ucpa weeks together.

Some of it depends on your current level. If you have good fundamentals you can improve a lot simply through time on slopes. Perhaps 1 week instruction when you arrive and then 1 session per week may be sufficient. It depends what your ultimate goal is.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

What's your budget?

Do you want to be based in just one resort?

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I did a 3 month Gap instructor course at age 40, and have not worked as a (paid) instructor since.
It certainly improved my skiing significantly (and a lot of other things like understanding learning and teaching techniques, lesson planning for beginners etc).
I think your question is, could you get better ski development and more enjoyment from an individually put together programme?
I believe the answer is yes, and would suggest a mix of several week long courses by (for example) Warren Smith in Verbier and Snoworks in Tignes, interspersed with weeks of personal skiing to put into practice what you’ve learned: plus occasional days with mountain guides for the backcountry, and add in some powder camps with Powder Extreme in Verbier if your off piste is up to it.
Accommodation will be a major cost for this so all depends on your budget.
I would also recommend a pre winter ski specific fitness programme so you’re in the best shape to take advantage of the experience.
And a full session with fellow Very Happy

’s Colin Martin and Andi Mcann before you come out to ensure you have the best fitting boots and alignment set up for your body and skis (worth having at least a good piste pair and a good offpiste/variables pair).
Then, get on with it and enjoy! I wish I could do that again!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Can you find an instructor you like and book them for a month or two? You may get discount that way?

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@LeFou, an instruction course wouldn’t be my choice.

I did 3 seasons and for me, time on variable snow made most difference. This was back when tour operators had “guides” so I was on snow 5-6 days a week, 10:00-16:00.

I had a solid knowledge of the techniques that I ought be doing (whether I was or not).

I would also throw in some weeks of both on and off piste techniques, as suggested above.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Another option is whistler and unlimited max4 lessons package. Plus points. Pretty relaxed just rock up in the morning or afternoon and join, good mix of technique and off piste (all in bounds), jump ques on powder days. Will be days you might have a instructor all to yourself. Down sides might lack a long term structure and get a bit repetitive after a month or two

After all it is free

Hello again, thanks for the responses!

Forgot to precise, but work obligations means that my season will be during the summer, so I'll be in Chile or Argentina (probably Bariloche). As such, there are very limited options regarding ski schools that do intensive weeks, as that kind of option is mostly restricted to the US/Europe/NZ (perhaps).

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That’s a decent budget. I’d say a few hours private a week and lots of practice then.

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snow reports

Yes Improvements do both Ski Instructor courses and straight Improvement courses. Daughter did the 7 week instructor course in Whistler and it was brilliant.
However they also work in NZ during that season which lines up to your requirement. https://www.yesimprovement.com

Agree with Pam above you do a lot os snow plough "lessons" for level 1 ie 3weeks !

I think it depends. I did a course and don't regret it. Very little basic nursery slope stuff, my experience was different and I feel that depends on course or is a myth. They tore my technique apart and built me up. My riding benefited massively. I snowboard moguls for fun.

The issue with private lessons is you don't have the structure and it does help to have like-minded buddies to push eachother.

To date my biggest problem had been not being able to find people who are as obsessed with snowboarding as I am.

You know it makes sense.

I can only speak from personal experience but my L1 course did much more for my technique than previous courses I'd taken. As with @LittleBullet, we started from the snowplough and built back up so that the fundamentals were (relatively) sound.

I'm working towards L2 and the fact that there are specific, defined outcome standards to work towards is a great help for me - I know what I need to work on but more importantly I can visualise what I'm trying to achieve.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

@boarder2020, yes agreed and point taken, I'm only sharing my experience as requested by the OP. It could well just be a function of the people I've met over the years, for a long while I struggled to find people who will choose to ride moguls with me. Hence my migration to snowheads, UCPA and other ski forums.

I would not have improved more DIY, the continuity, competitivness with my peers (the other teenage lads) and learning the exercises how to demo the skill was really helpful. We did a lot of inbounds off-piste and park (I was young, overconfident and bouncy) but no real off-piste training which I regretted. Note, I did take it very seriously limiting hangover days to the no training days and practicing on my own in unpleasant weather if no one wanted to ride.

Imho UCPA strung together will not offer the quality of training as one these courses improvement or instructor.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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I suggest looking at Alltracks they operate out of whistler look at combining instructor with ofpiste course not cheep but excellent instruction . But would have to be next season now.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I've never taken an extended instructor's course. So some of what I think are guesses.

But I spent 2 seasons teaching beginners in a small hill near where I live. I did it to get free access to snow, at least that's what I thought.

My skiing improved considerably as a result. I mean, teaching beginners on nursery slope! Never would have thought of that!!!

What I realized in retrospect, is I practice a lot, I mean A LOT, on the BASICS!

I had to demonstrate to my students how to snowplough, how to side step, side slip, stem cristy, transition to parallel etc... All on nursery slopes! Would I have the patient to do a lot of that on my own? I don't think so. Would anyone else have the patients to do the same boring practice A LOT? I doubt most could.

But as a rooky instructor, that's what I did. I got paid to do that, which took some of the boredom away. And also having to watch my students and help with their movement keeps it from being a total snooze-fest.

What am I trying to say?

I'm saying you need to practice the basic a lot to improve. And most of us simply aren't diligent to put in the required practice. Doing an instructor's course is to "be forced" to do those practice as part of the course. It's expensive because your instructor's time is money.

So, if you're the kind that "enjoys" practicing till perfection (musicians come to mind), you don't need to pay for the instructor course's supervised practice. You can do it more efficiently with a private instructor, with an understanding you want to build a solid foundation and improve from that.

But for the majority of people who don't have the discipline, you need some motivation to do the practice. An instructor's course may just be the necessary course.

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Yes, everyone is in agreement that instructor course will improve you. What I'm yet to hear is why an instructor course would be better than a course focused on actually improving you as a skier?

Take this course offered by nonstop who are a reputable company offering instructor courses (https://www.nonstopsnow.com/ski-instructor-courses/canada-fernie-csia-level-1-2-11-weeks)

Everybody does first 5 weeks achieving level 1 qualification. Then you have the option either continue with ski instructor training to achieve level 2 all complete The "all mountain pro" course. Level 2 training will focus on advanced ski technique and teaching skills. AMP will focus on steep terrain and powder. The fact they offer these two programs susts they are not the same thing. Think AMP is likely to improve someone's all around skiing far more than level 2 training.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@boarder2020, the OP has said that his time off from work is during (Northern hemisphere) summer, so it will need to be South America or New Zealand rather than a course in Europe or North America.

After all it is free

OP will do well by updating his first post so late comers who didn't read through all the subsequent posts will not be offering unsuitable suggestions.

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I don't think you are reading what I'm saying. You will improve on an instructor course. You will improve more on a course focused 100% on improving rather than instructing with some improving thrown in.

snow reports

@boarder2020, sorry mate I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you here. In my experience the test of my understanding, knowledge and ability in areas even outside of snowsports is my ability to articulate and demonstrate the task in hand e.g. training an intern...you only know if you can do something well if you can demonstrate and explain it.
Depending on the course improvement Vs instructor will be around the same I reckon. Instructor gives you that 'target' to focus on.

"Those that can do and those that can't teach" springs to mind. By your logic a hopeful Olympian ski racer is better off doing an instructor course then spending equal amount of time with a top coach. The kids freeski teams can ski better than most of the adult instructors at any mountain.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I agree - the best way of improving is to wind the clock back until you are 15 years old then start again.

A snowHead

@LittleBullet, I can see your point, but lets take the CSIA L2 qual referred to, it takes the trainee instructor* to being able to teach "intermediate parallel".

If I had a season & budget to play with, I'd want to finish with a load more than that! And not have to go through all the (necessary if you are going teach) ancillary (and not necessary if you are not going to teach) training.

*Said trainee can of course be a lot better than that, but that's also minimum entry.

Most/many local juniors we know will do their quals as a matter of course, and as a backstop. THe OH knows some Swiss familes who, in days gone by, would get their "International" Licence, just for free ski passes. This no longer works as well. Actually at one stage you could do CSIA L3 in a season and that also got you the same benefit but while my chums and I talked about it, we'd just left Uni and were too skint to go for it.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@abc, while I can see that that might be the problem, the answer then isn't "do an instructor course anyway".

As the OP seems to have the budget, it would not be beyond the ken of man to identify the location (I understand Chile > Argentina, at least according to some good Argentinian skiers I met on a trip), then decide on a ski school (there's probably only one), get some recommendations and go out for one on one lessons with a few instructors until deciding on who clicks best (which may not be one person).

Then make some sort of arrangement of regular lessons, with their guidance (1ce a week, 2ce a week) and arrange a price, perhaps discounted as you'll be reliable trade in the shoulder months.

And there may be week long packages that might be worth considering. And some left field stuff like race training for DH or SG (I believe that many squads still head to Portillo).

And crack on ...

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@rjs,

I was not suggesting that, more that if the ski school can access some space and have trainers, might be a giggle.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

@abc, anyone I've seen whose dedicated themselves to that sort of thing has made excellent progress.

@boarder2020, first 5 weeks of Nonstops's 11 week Big Mountain course is getting to CSIA L1... Shocked

and at CAD 18k for single room accommodation? Really?? Very much aimed at one week a year gap year skiers who want to get a wee bit better, I fear. Anyway, it's in Canada. Oh and it's only 4 days coaching a week Shocked

Oh, and @rjs, the rolling eyes

is only because that's such a ridiculously preposterous suggestion that you were proposing to even imagine suggesting I was making, well, Shocked

I mean, WTAF? Rock up and join in with a national squad in summer training? I know some of my opinions don't always resonate with the SHs massif, but, SRSLY? Laughing

Given, though, that Les Arcs (at least) used to allow Joe Public to try out (part of) the Speed course and some DH courses do the same, the possibility of a "Baptême de Vitesse" with a ski school trainer doesn't seem entirely out of the question. Don't ask, don't get.

@under a new name, When I wrote "team" I wasn't meaning a National one.

Do you know how much it typically costs to organize speed training ? You can rent the speed track in Tignes for 850 euros per day. Maybe Chamonix is different but I doubt it. Why not go and ask Fred Comte what it would cost.

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Instructor course or…something else?

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