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Take Care of your Custom Footbeds

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I just recently returned from Switzerland, where I purchased new skis and bindings from Gaby Sports of Nendaz. For the binding adjustment I handed in my left boot one night. The next day my Profeet footbed was very uncomfortable, but I put it down to me being "fussy". Yesterday I visited CEM, who advised me that my left footbed was scrap after 16 days use. The reason, considerable overheating , most likely with a Boot Drier.
I did contact the retailer, who has replied. Here are their and my comments.

Dear Marc
As you know I purchased some Stockli Stormrider AT skis from you just over 1 week ago. The skis are great. I gave my left skiboot to your store to enable the binding to be adjusted, and collected the boot at the same time as buying the skis. My left footbed was uncomfortable in use, and I have just returned from my boot fitter who tells me that, in his opinion, the left footbed has been put on a boot heater which has melted and warped the footbed. The boots and custom footbeds have had 16 days use from new. I have now purchased new footbeds at an additional cost of £100. The only time that my boots have been apart from me is when in your store. I would urge you to check the temperature of your boot heater. I was also advised that to cause this level of melting that considerable heat would have been needed.I now have a swollen foot from the warping. I attach a photo of the Profeet footbeds showing both left and right feet.

Their reply is here:

Hello, thanks to give news. But we are really sorry your skiboot was gived on a bag, was only take from bag
to check the binding after montage, lang and pression, and directly putted on you bag.
In our shop this shoe was not touched or puted on a dry machine from our personnel,
we dont take any responsability for this.

My response is here:

Thank you for your prompt reply.The boot was not handed to you in a bag, I use a T shaped boot carrying strap. The boot was also returned to me dry, I was expecting a damp boot, after the previous days, skiing. The boot was certainly returned to me in a bag, with the T carrier attached. The photo and comments will now be posted at www.snowheads.com

The photo of the footbeds is here:

http://www.snowmediazone.com/the_zone/showphoto.php/photo/2811/cat/587
The left footbed is melted and rock hard right through.

CEM's advice, remove your liners and the footbeds, just hand in the shell.

I now have new footbeds to replace my er... new footbeds, and a swollen foot Mad
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowbunny,

Sorry to hear that..... I'm glad I don't have expensive footbeds but a lesson to be learned here
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What awful customer service. Lets start a snowheads initiated boycott. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad New footbeds £100 thats pretty pricey are they thermic ones. Surely the store should be liable. What on earth did they dry your boots with Shocked
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Edmundh009, Yes, I agree. I did contact them and give them opportunity to repond before posting here. I last contacted them this morning, so they could have engaged in this, but have chosen not to. The name of the store is Gaby Sports, of Nendaz. The underside of the footbed is also warped and melted, the shiny bit in the pic is rock hard to touch. The footbeds were from Profeet, they are not thermic AFAIK.
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Profeet really does charge and arm and a leg for their fitting don't they. They go into all that ski biomechanics nonsense Laughing Laughing (joke). Was the liner of the boot not blown out of shape as well.
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Edmundh009, The liner was examined by CEM and seems to have survived ok. A good fitting footbed is really important to me as I'm missing some nerves in my foot, and can't tell when things have gone wrong, just a vague sensation, hence the swelling Mad
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In my recent visit to Profeet, I was fitted with custom insoles, but was told to be wary of boot driers, which could damage them. Has anyone had any direct experience of this. I just got some boot driers for birthday but am now worried about using them?? I was under the impression though, that boot driers use only a very low heat that dry the boot overnight. Should I use my driers?
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conor, I have had the Thermic boot dryers for years and they've been fine with my custom insoles (both Comformable and now Profeet ones). They have a thermostatic cut out so you can hear them turning on and then off as they get warmer, then on again. I love them!
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My aunt got moulded liners for her ski boots, put them up in the loft over summer - where they were eaten by mice Laughing
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snowbunny, £100 for Profeet footbeds? Profeet charge approx £100 for their total boot assessment/fitting/alignment package, including footbeds. Their custom footbeds alone should have been £45-£50 max. If you paid £100 for footbeds only then you also have a genuine beef with Profeet.

I'm not defending Gaby Sports but perhaps they thought that you were taking the pi$$ as your letter appeared to be trying to claim a £100 from them for footbeds.

conor, Deb & I have used the Thermic boot warmers (the element type, not the hairdryer type) for about about 10 weeks of sking in our Profeet footbedded boots with absolutely not problem. They are only warm to the touch but do a terrific job overnight resulting in warm & bone dry boots.
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spyderjon,
Quote:

I'm not defending Gaby Sports but perhaps they thought that you were taking the pi$$ as your letter appeared to be trying to claim a £100 from them for footbeds.


As in my email comment..
Quote:


I would urge you to check the temperature of your boot heater. I was also advised that to cause this level of melting that considerable heat would have been needed.I now have a swollen foot from the warping. I attach a photo of the Profeet footbeds showing both left and right feet.


Please re-read my email contents, I fail to see any details of me taking the pi$$. Yes, they should be paying for new footbeds, likely, no, more chance of me winning the Lottery Jackpot. Details posted here to inform SH of the risks when handing this seasons kit to a ski shop.

Quote:

If you paid £100 for footbeds only then you also have a genuine beef with Profeet.


I visited Profeet in November 2005. For a pair of footbeds, I was quoted and charged £100.


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 9-04-06 15:31; edited 1 time in total
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spyderjon, cheers, I think mine are the element type. Will check them out later.

Profeet service is £99 for an hour's consultation and boot remedial work. On my visit, that translated to £99 for 2 hour's of consultation including custom footbeds and extensive punching out of the boot shell. A bargain I think.
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snowbunny, I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. I had my foot beds fitted when I bought my boots new from Precision at Val D'Isere. They have given me many weeks of skiing, and seem to be like new. You do seem to have been very unlucky. Footbeds seem to be reasonably rugged, normally. I don't think the problem will happen to you again. Hope not, anyway.
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You know it makes sense.
I took mine out for the off-season and forgot to put them back...couldn't tell much difference...ha.. Laughing
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
[quote="snowbunny"]
Quote:
I visited Profeet in November 2005. For a pair of footbeds, I was quoted and charged £100.


snowbunny, I'm certainly not defending Gaby Sports as they should reimburse you the cost of the footbeds. But £100 for footbeds only is extortionate Shocked. Therefore if I was the Manager of Gaby Sports & I received your letter claiming £100 for footbeds only then I'd think you were taking the pi$$.

As conor says, Profeet's £99 charge is their charge for the 'full monty', including their footbeds, which is indeed a bargain for their two hours of work. If you do a Profeet search you will find I'm as big a fan of their's as anyone, but a £100 for footbeds only is waaay too much..

When Deb & I were fitted by Profeet, Hamish (the Manager) expained their charge as £50 for the assessment/boot fitting/alignment service & the rest for the footbeds - ie, £50 max for the footbeds. EB's & S&R are a few quid cheaper than Profeet for custom footbeds which are made in exactly the same way.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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snowbunny, sorry to hear your tale. The manager of Gaby Sports is trying to evade his shop's responsibility in this and you should at least write to the Nendaz council and tourist info people to relate your experience. At least you should get the price of Conformable footbeds back if not of full cork Superfeets wink though I suspect you'll have your work cut out for you. Confused
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spyderjon,
Quote:

When Deb & I were fitted by Profeet, Hamish (the Manager) expained their charge as £50 for the assessment/boot fitting/alignment service & the rest for the footbeds - ie, £50 max for the footbeds. EB's & S&R are a few quid cheaper than Profeet for custom footbeds which are made in exactly the same way

The "full monty" analysis, told me nothing that I did not already know. I do believe that it would be impossible to simply buy a footbed from them as they rely on software to do their analysis. Hamish the Manager was there whilst I had my footbeds made, though he and all the other staff seemed to be unduly distracted by the imminent arrival of "warren". I got an hour for my money, and I had asked several times for space to be made in my boots for the bone midway at the outside of one foot. I was told that the boot would give. I was happy to trust their advice. After bedding in, then 12 days skiing, it was my foot that turned red. I visited another fitter who simply ground a small hole in the internal liner frame, to accomodate the bone, easy really. I have loads of old pairs of Conformable footbeds, all totally unblemished.
As my foot is still swollen I have been advised to take an old pair of footbeds with me in case of more swelling.The Profeet beds were made differently from those I have had made both at S&R and EB as they were made unweighted.
My new footbeds were also made unweighted, CEM has worked hard to provide me a comfortable footbed and accomodate my injury.
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slikedges, It is impossible for me to prove that it is their fault.
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snowbunny, it is as possible as in many other consumer cases of poor service or products discovered only a little while after the service or product was rendered Little Angel Like you've said it's a long shot but no harm in writing the letters, and copying them to the shop manager. Cool
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Sorrysnowbunny but I'm somewhat confused, although I've had a few vino's so it might be me getting things a over t. On re-reading your original post it may have been Edmund & myself that have jumped to the conclusion re the amount we thought that Profeet had charged you for footbeds only.

Did you buy new boots, including footbeds from Profeet (in which case a one hour fitting seems mighty quick) or did they just perform a fitting check on your existing boots which included footbeds (in which case an hour would be about right)?

And then, after Gaby's had screwed up the footbed did you go back to Profeet to have replacement ones made at a cost of £100 or did CEM make the replacement ones at a cost of £100?

Anyway, my original point (somewhat insensitively put Embarassed) & the reason for my comments, is that by stating to Gaby Sports that the replacement footbeds cost £100, which to them would seem very excessive, you may have inadvertently harmed your case. Maybe asking for a bit less dosh might help.

Hope you follow my inebriated logic.
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spyderjon, The Facts. Purchased new skiboots EB June 2005. Footbeds supplied by Profeet November 2005 at a cost of £100. After Gaby Sports intervention end March 2006, further new footbeds made by CEM costing £100. These are facts well supported by Visa Receipts,company printouts etc. It is a fact that my new footbeds fabricated by CEM on 8/4/06 have cost £100.
How could I ask for less money, when I have not asked Gaby Sports for any. Additionally since they categorically deny responsibility what difference could it possibly make, unless a reduction in value induces selective memory recall on the part of the retailer. Also, if I were to suddenly ask for less, it would look as though I was lying initially.
Please feel free to highlight the part of my email to Gaby Sports where I request that they pay for the damage.
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snowbunny, thanks for that. Your right, you didn't actually ask for any cost reimbursement but to me your letter implied that you were looking for reimbursement.

I know it's rubbing salt in to the wound but I'm sure that Profeet would have only charged you £50 max for the new footbeds as they already had all your analysis info on record - maybe you could have just gotten a left one for even less cost? Anyway, you obviously felt that you'd had poor service previously at Profeet so I can understand why you felt it necessary to shop elsewhere.

CEM, £100. I'm in the wrong job wink.
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snowbunny, bad news, the foot beds I had made in Canada were carved by a computer controlled machine so heat won't damage them. When I bought boots from S & R at Castleford in Sept 2004 the boot fitter specifically made a point of warning me about boot heaters not necessarily portable ones you use in your rooms but heated boot racks in some ski rooms. I have come across them in Ellmau in Austria and the pipes were as hot as any central heating system definitely mot good for you liners and foot beds. I now use silica gel bags to absorb the moisture in my boots and them put the bags on a radiator while I'm skiing. When I return I bake the silica gel on a low heat in the oven to desiccate properly ready for the next trip. Seems to work fine.
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spyderjon, et al,

it appears that a few people feel that i have over charged snowbunny, for her footbeds. i can assure you that this is not the case, i charge no more than any 'other shop' for the product that she has. We work with the Superfeet custom product which works in a diiferent way from the conformable product supplied by many outlets (profeet included). Our product is made in non-weightbearing neutral (a position that cannot be guaranteed in weightbearing) from a solid blank of cork / resin, the product acts on the rear of the foot supporting from the heel bone rather than placing a wedge under the arch (which can actually weaken the foot)the normal price of a conformable footbed is between £40 and £50 for the bed itself and an additional £25 approx for the posting block attached to the footbed, where this is a bit less than the superfeet product, IMO the Superfeet product lasts much longer, and offers a superior fit to the foot in most cases.

there are of course times that the conformable product works better, and if this is the case then we have a source that we can use to produce this product should it be required.

Quote:

CEM, £100. I'm in the wrong job

trust me i am the one in the wrong job, the margin on these products is much less than that of the conformable, but margin is not something i like to weigh up against customer service & i would rather explain the price of quality than apologise for anything less. In addition we back this up with a 60 day unconditional money back guarantee on all our orthotic products


EDIT: if you think £100 is expensive for a footbed, you should try a company called feet first, at the Vitality show at Olympia last weekend they were selling an off the shelf orthotic at .......wait for it £200 (conversly we can offer similar at between £25-£32) i dred to think what price their custom offering was?????


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 10-04-06 7:04; edited 1 time in total
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spyderjon,
Quote:

I'm sure that Profeet would have only charged you £50 max for the new footbeds as they already had all your analysis info on record - maybe you could have just gotten a left one for even less cost

Well maybe, and maybe they would have had an appointment slot for me. Then maybe, they would have been able to work with the ongoing inflammation of my foot. Then again, the costs and time involved in going into central London, and a whole day of my life (again), mean that travelling 25 miles to see CEM on Saturday was the most sensible option by far, meaning that I now have an excellent pair of footbeds, fabricated by an expert. Thank you CEM Very Happy
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Russell,
Quote:

I now use silica gel bags to absorb the moisture in my boots and them put the bags on a radiator while I'm skiing

Yes, these are quite good, we have some.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
In support of CEM, I've been looking round at the price of custom footbeds and £100 for full cork Superfeet footbeds appears to be standard.
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I've looked at the prices for full cork Superfeets as well and would echo marc gledhill's comment, though I think there has been a significant price increase across the board over the last couple of years. I've also paid a visit to CEM and have had professional and expert assessment and advice, together with what seem like a very robust and comfortable set of custom footbeds for my money.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
CEM, I'm sold! I'm obviously out of touch re prices.

With regards to the durabilty of footbeds in general, could you give me an indication, say in no. of skiing days, after which time the various types on the market should be replaced for optimum performance?

Also do you offer a supply & fitting service for Zipfit liners? At the recent Epicski Academy these were touted as the best & most durable on the market so I'd be interested in your opinion on these & the other aftermarket liners that are available.
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spyderjon,

The question of longevity of life of footbeds is always a difficult one to answer accurately. I would normally say around 2-5 seasons (full seasons) dependant on how well the product is made.
Looking firstly at Conformable, there are a lot of shops out there selling only the footbed itself and not putting any stabiliser onto the product. In some cases, i.e. a very light skier not skiing more than one week per year may not notice the collapse of the footbed under their foot, whereas a heavier skier will very quickly collapse the footbed if it is not correctly stabilised, this is due to the flexibility of the materials in the product. The correct amount of stability should be used dependant on the skier weight, ability and usage level.

On the Superfeet ski product the stability is built into the product during the fabrication, so this effect of collapse is not likely to happen (unless the product is badly made) I have pulled a kork footbed from the boot of a ski patroller who had used them for ten years of back to back seasons in Italy & NZ, they were hanging together by this point but they were still doing their job.

In saying all this I would recommend that you have your footbeds checked after approximately 2-3 years, regardless of how much skiing you have done, your feet change throughout your life and it may be that the footbed you have is not working well with your feet even though it may still have plenty of life left in it. (a reputable boot fitter will not sell you a new footbed if they are not worn out and are functioning properly)

Of all the aftermarket liners available the Zip fit is the one I like to work with the most, they are probably the longest lasting and definitely improve in comfort the more you ski in them, I changed from the first generation silicon inject version after approx 20 weeks and they were still getting better with each week of skiing. One advantage that Zip Fit has over the other aftermarket liners is that it can be moved from shell to shell; even if the new shell is a different model to the original (the liner and shell require heating to achieve this)

The other liners all have advantages and depending on what you are looking for will depend on what type of liner you should have.
PU foam offers a very solid fit and a performance which is hard to match, it is therefore best suited to skiers doing 3 weeks a season or more, as the fit will take time to settle each time they are worn, ok if you ski a lot, but if the hurt for the first 3 days of your only 6 days of the year you would get a bit hacked off. The thermo flex style liners offer a more comfort orientated fit and if the shell is not a good fit to the foot there is a risk that they can pack down very quickly (they are really warm so if you get cold toes….)

At present I do not stock any after market liners although we are looking at the options for next season, if you are looking for one before then I can point you the right direction.

I hope that this covers everything, although I have probably missed the important bits somewhere.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
CEM, thanks, that's great info.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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CEM, I'd love to show you some of our kork product that has been skied professionally for 8 years, not seasons. Without that resort experience, you would never see it's true life. wink Still in perfect condition. It's cork, how many years does it last in a bottle of wine?
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, the ones i mentioned were pulled out of the boot in the very shop you are working in, they had been used for 20 seasons (yes 10 years)and were blue in colour, thats right the original ones without the arch cookie.

That length of time with sweat, snow and all sorts of other things going into the boot is bound to have a bit of an effect on the top cover of the product. Longevity would be one reason why the vinyards are moving to plastic corks. no more corked wine Little Angel
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CEM, I'd take a zipfit from you if you do decide to do them Very Happy
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SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote:
It's cork, how many years does it last in a bottle of wine?


About half an hour in our house Twisted Evil
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I'm a big fan of zipfits, v comfortable and they do appear to get better the more you ski in 'em!
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slikedges wrote:
CEM, I'd take a zipfit from you if you do decide to do them Very Happy


Me too.
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slikedges, spyderjon, looking into it right now Toofy Grin
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CEM, Massive production problems here, wouldn't touch them with a plastic bottle stopper again. However those whom do insist on Z-Fit you can have them by us at 50% off. Good luck! Little Angel
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SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote:
CEM, Massive production problems here, wouldn't touch them with a plastic bottle stopper again. However those whom do insist on Z-Fit you can have them by us at 50% off. Good luck! Little Angel

Please elaborate.
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