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Weight related to binding setting

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
When a ski shop adjusts the bindings, they usually ask for ability and weight. Ability is usually easily explained, beginner, int, advanced etc

Is the weight naked weight
or weight with boots, helmet , jacket etc
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Normally it is naked weight, but I have seen skis hire shops use bathroom type scales.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A worldclass binding-setter (like in a race) will quantify and qualify age, height, gender, boot-sole length, skier type, skier skill, skier speed, fitness, fatness, strength, balance, body shape, naked weight, fullgear weight, and blend them all into a final DIN setting.

Tell them both your naked weight + fullgear weight.
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Naked weight.

I'm not sure gear weight matters much in this regard.

But....

The other factor is NOT "ability". It's called "skier type (style)". It's just unfortunate it's also got 3 levels. So people just assume it correspond to the 3 "ability" level.
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Because of my age and old knee injuries I always reduce the DIN settings when I get my skis back after the shop has mounted my bindings. Shops won't usually take account of old injuries.


http://www.dincalculator.com/#/
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@dublin2, it is not an exact science. It's barely even an art. It's actually barely even cave painting.

In the shop, if they don't ask they just base it on whether you are unusually short, tall or average, and subtract one.

Oh and WG is as usual talking nonsense. WC DH racers dial up to 20 and leave it there.
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@Whitegold, since when does a ski racer let anyone tell them what DIN setting to use?

@under a new name, exactly.
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I've always gone on the 1 point to every 10kg then up or down 1 if experienced or beginning
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Is it weight before or after the pre-slide shoite
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Better for them to release than rip your knee apart, especially for us old farts
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welshflyer wrote:
Because of my age and old knee injuries I always reduce the DIN settings when I get my skis back after the shop has mounted my bindings. Shops won't usually take account of old injuries.


http://www.dincalculator.com/#/


With Snowtrax I insisted with them that due to my knee injuries I wanted the lower DIN setting (used Jonathan Bells chart) they accepted it after I explained why.

With Spyderjon at piste office - he didn’t even put up a “fight” Happy
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NickyJ wrote:
......With Spyderjon at piste office - he didn’t even put up a “fight” Happy


That's because you made perfect sense.
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spyderjon wrote:
NickyJ wrote:
......With Spyderjon at piste office - he didn’t even put up a “fight” Happy


That's because you made perfect sense.


That makes a change Happy.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@NickyJ,

Snowtrax mounted my bindings but I can't remember if I asked them for a lower DIN setting. I checked the setting myself and reduced them. Who is Jonathan Bell?

I think it was S&R who said that they had to use the recommended DIN Settings and it was my responsibilty to re adjust them if I wanted a different DIN Setting.
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He is our resident orthopaedic consultant who is a knee specialist. Have a look at the injury and rehab part of the forum and he often gives some great advice and insights. If we lived closer to us I would have made sure I saw him with my knee ops - but he is based in Wimbledon.

Nb looking at your location I live about 10miles from you Happy
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@NickyJ,

I moved to Salisbury 5 years ago from Tooting which is about 3 miles from Wimbledon.

I need to get orthopaedic advice about my knees, hip and back. I never thought of looking at the rehab part of this forum.

We should arrange socials for snowheads in our area. Where are you?
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welshflyer wrote:
@NickyJ,

I moved to Salisbury 5 years ago from Tooting which is about 3 miles from Wimbledon.

I need to get orthopaedic advice about my knees, hip and back. I never thought of looking at the rehab part of this forum.

We should arrange socials for snowheads in our area. Where are you?


Ah Tooting, just up the valley from Tonypandy? Very Happy
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@welshflyer, The Afnor charts that Mr. Bell reference are the best imo setting charts out there and can be found on our page

http://www.insideoutskiing.com/info/fitness.html
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@skimottaret,

Thanks for the very useful link.

Is it possible to put this somewhere on the forum for future reference?
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@Charliegolf,

I was born in North Wales not in the Valleys.
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welshflyer wrote:
Because of my age and old knee injuries I always reduce the DIN settings when I get my skis back after the shop has mounted my bindings. Shops won't usually take account of old injuries.


http://www.dincalculator.com/#/


I have often wondred why the binding needs to know your height...weight yes, ability yes, BSL yes, age possibly but height? Confused How does that affect n.m force? Puzzled I have always found that, without an app / chart, a very basic rule of thumb for a competent strong skier is 10% of weight (in Kg) less 1. Smile
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torque dear boy... If you tibia is twice as long as someone else that is a big lever
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@Gilby, Length of the lever....
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skimottaret wrote:
torque dear boy... If you tibia is twice as long as someone else that is a big lever



Height is not a factor Johnathan Bell uses in his (AFNOR) calculations though. Confused Maybe a consideration if you are height 'challanged' but by in large most aren't.
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skimottaret wrote:
@welshflyer, The Afnor charts that Mr. Bell reference are the best imo setting charts out there and can be found on our page

http://www.insideoutskiing.com/info/fitness.html



I am 84kg, 6 feet 1 inch tall, a pretty good experienced recreational skier, age 51

My "usual" DIN for the last X years has been 7 - on my own skis, and what I ask for if I rent.

A standard DIN chart would now put me at 6 (because I am over 50). Whats the story with the cliff edge at 50 on these charts?

I like the concept of your chart, but it gives me a DIN of 4.5..........I would be worried about popping out !

Thoughts?
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GreenDay wrote:


I am 84kg, 6 feet 1 inch tall, a pretty good experienced recreational skier, age 51

My "usual" DIN for the last X years has been 7 - on my own skis, and what I ask for if I rent.

A standard DIN chart would now put me at 6 (because I am over 50). Whats the story with the cliff edge at 50 on these charts?

I like the concept of your chart, but it gives me a DIN of 4.5..........I would be worried about popping out !

Thoughts?

I suppose they have to draw a line somewhere and allowances should be made for age.....but not all 51 year olds are created equal....and you are in the best position to judge strength, ability and fitness levels compared to when you were younger.
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GreenDay wrote:
skimottaret wrote:
@welshflyer, The Afnor charts that Mr. Bell reference are the best imo setting charts out there and can be found on our page

http://www.insideoutskiing.com/info/fitness.html



I am 84kg, 6 feet 1 inch tall, a pretty good experienced recreational skier, age 51

My "usual" DIN for the last X years has been 7 - on my own skis, and what I ask for if I rent.

A standard DIN chart would now put me at 6 (because I am over 50). Whats the story with the cliff edge at 50 on these charts?

I like the concept of your chart, but it gives me a DIN of 4.5..........I would be worried about popping out !

Thoughts?


What's you boot size (BSL)?
It's certainly not an exact science.
My experince is 'what works' but the AFNOR method is a good guide.
By the way we have pretty much the same profile (weight / ability / age) and I set mine at 7. Come out when I need to and don't come off when I don't want them to. Very Happy


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 27-11-19 16:29; edited 1 time in total
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over 50's have less bone density and usually weaker joints..

Not sure you are reading it correctly as 4.5 sounds low... Are you male or female?

You go up one level IF you are a beginner or over 50 then back down line(s) depending on experience level... For instance an expert over 50 would go down three lines then back up one as over 50.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Whitegold, I think you forgot about the calculations that get factored in for altitude change and the impact that has over the race course, not to mention the impact of age on the energy potential of the springs as well as ambient temperature and humidity:twisted:


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 27-11-19 16:27; edited 1 time in total
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skimottaret wrote:
over 50's have less bone density and usually weaker joints..

Load bearing/high impact exercise can offset that to a degree - so it's hard to generalise. I suppose you have to weigh up the risk of coming out too easily vs damage of not doing so. A bit of trial, error and common sense may be necessary.
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skimottaret wrote:
over 50's have less bone density and usually weaker joints..

Not sure you are reading it correctly as 4.5 sounds low... Are you male or female?

You go up one level IF you are a beginner or over 50 then back down line(s) depending on experience level... For instance an expert over 50 would go down three lines then back up one as over 50.


Male - ok, then that sounds like down one on ability, up one based on age - so 5.5?

But its clearly not an exact science, as you say.
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Jonny996 wrote:
I've always gone on the 1 point to every 10kg then up or down 1 if experienced or beginning


Far too high for me
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Gilby wrote:


What's you boot size (BSL)?
It's certainly not an exact science.
My experince is 'what works' but the AFNOR method is a good guide.
By the way we have pretty much the same profile (weight / ability / age) and I set mine at 7. Come out when I need to and don't come off when I don't want them to. Very Happy


Aye, think I will leave at 7 - BSL is 313mm, iirc
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GreenDay wrote:
skimottaret wrote:
over 50's have less bone density and usually weaker joints..

Not sure you are reading it correctly as 4.5 sounds low... Are you male or female?

You go up one level IF you are a beginner or over 50 then back down line(s) depending on experience level... For instance an expert over 50 would go down three lines then back up one as over 50.


Male - ok, then that sounds like down one on ability, up one based on age - so 5.5?

But its clearly not an exact science, as you say.



Without knowing your boot size (guessing its between 8 and 9 1/2, I make your DIN setting 7. Up two for ability, (don't be shy) and down one for age. Job done!
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@GreenDay, the whole >50 thing is somewhat of a heuristic for the average Joanna or Joe.
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GreenDay wrote:
Gilby wrote:


What's you boot size (BSL)?
It's certainly not an exact science.
My experince is 'what works' but the AFNOR method is a good guide.
By the way we have pretty much the same profile (weight / ability / age) and I set mine at 7. Come off when I need to and don't come off when I don't want them to. Very Happy


Aye, think I will leave at 7 - BSL is 313mm, iirc
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under a new name wrote:
@GreenDay, the whole >50 thing is somewhat of a heuristic for the average Joanna or Joe.


Aye, I reckoned that.

For example, I have a mate who only returned to skiing at the age of 56, is currently 59 and has fairly limited technique. I would expect his DIN to be a good bit lower than mine for a number of reasons. I would ask him, but he wouldnt actually know what a DIN setting was Very Happy

Ta all, interesting stuff
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under a new name wrote:
@GreenDay, the whole >50 thing is somewhat of a heuristic for the average Joanna or Joe.



Of course the point that you are making about "cave painting" ( Madeye-Smiley BTW) is that the whole thing is a heuristic. That isn't a criticism of the system - what is the alternative? - but it does mean that we shouldn't regard DIN charts as the law (even if ski shops insurers make THEM treat it as such).

Some DIN charts have a 3+ category (racers etc.) which pretty much corresponds to "put 'em as high as you like"

I've always tended to err on the low side on the basis that I'd prefer prerelease to a busted knee. But my DIN settings have crept up as I am (touchwood!) yet to have an incident when I've thought "hmm, rather surprised the ski didn't come off then".

At 75kg and DIN 9 I still find I throw off a ski with rather minor provocation at times if I'm travelling briskly and setting high edge angles.
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Oh and the age thing - as other people have pointed out, in general bone density and muscle mass decline after 50. As someone who has naturally chunky legs and runs and cycles, I'm quite sure my legs will be stronger than the average 40 year old when I am 50 so I won't be making an adjustment on my birthday next year Embarassed
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@jedster, I read once, Spyderjon may have a view, that in general, pre-releasing was often more to do with poorly adjusted boots (or even just a little bit of ice under sole, not enough to prevent locking in, just enough to trigger pre-release).

My best ever pre-release was both skis releasing at the heels as I took some air off a snow gun mound in Les Gets. Oops I though, this could be problematic.

Then I went straight back in again as I landed and carried on, nonchalantly (like a cat).

If only it had been deliberate - and captured..
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