 Poster: A snowHead
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@conor90, 850g vs 300g. You can feel the difference. But for what you describe I would get the Shift which skis like an Alpine binding and tours beautifully
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks. One more question. Say if you were to do a 3 day trip with max ascent 1000m each day, would the shift on reasonably light skis ruin it or be OK? I know there are lots of other variables but for you personally.
I'd consider myself fit and I'm already quite light.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@conor90, I bought shifts with freeride skis earlier this season with the aim of doing basic ‘near resort’ touring to access off piste but found since doing two outings I now have the touring bug. I am now considering a lighter set of skis with Marker Alpinist and finding myself spending lots of time googling reviews etc.
It became very apparent on the first trip that a lighter setup felt easier / better when I swapped skis with the guide for a period. On my second trip a skinny French guy in Lycra overtook me very quickly shouting “trop lourd” in a cocky voice as he went past on a gentle gradient - keeping in mind my technique is probably still rubbish but I have good endurance fitness.
I think I can save around 1.5kg per leg but looking a spending at least £1,200 on new equipment (inc boots) which in my view will be money well spent as the gear should last many years. I appreciate some possible compromises with descending but I think the modern lightweight, but not weight weenie, skis, bindings and boots seem to be up to the job.
Having said all this the shifts are great and will use them when out with mates on same equipment or when incorporating some touring into a day’s resort skiing. Ultimately if out with a group you will only be as fast as the slowest guy if you all arrive at the same time. In my view if you are are considering a one ski quiver then get the shifts with a mid weight ski, otherwise if you feel you will your lots of touring, and have the funds, then go full tour setup or you may have some regrets like me.
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@Ozboy, Thanks. I am agonising over what to buy! I recently did a 3 day touring course and got the bug. I used rented light touring gear for that.
I don't live in the alps so in the future I see myself doing more touring orientated ski trips, rather than resort based. I'm currently in Chamonix for about 2 and a half more weeks, so I'm trying to decide whether to commit to buying now (today), or just stick to renting. There are worse decisions in life to have to make!
Thanks for your input, very helpful.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@conor90, I have been touring a while and have had both light and heavier set-ups. The more I have toured the more I have realized that for me it’s all about the up. The ski down is rarely great and sometimes it’s awful but the up is always good. I use a light and stiff ski that is 85 underfoot with Dynafit bindings. I wouldn’t have any qualms about using the dynafits all day everyday.
If you’re worried about alpine skiing, have you thought about quiver killers and having two pairs of bindings? Spyderjon tells me the Alpinist and Kingpin share the same front screw pattern.
Other people’s opinions will differ of course. I think a lot depends on your ability to ski all snow types.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| zzz wrote: |
| @conor90The ski down is rarely great and sometimes it’s awful |
You are doing it all wrong! 
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| conor90 wrote: |
Thanks. One more question. Say if you were to do a 3 day trip with max ascent 1000m each day, would the shift on reasonably light skis ruin it or be OK? I know there are lots of other variables but for you personally.
I'd consider myself fit and I'm already quite light. |
I would be very happy with Shifts for that (I have them on my new 'light' touring skis, after skiing most of last season on them on a bigger set up). 3 days in a row *over* 1200m I would prefer something lighter but up to 1000m vert is easily doable on Shifts. I don't really notice the weight difference between them and Kingpins (there's about 100g in it) which I lugged to the top of Elbrus, but the Shifts ski WAY better. Can really ski them every day everywhere without feeling a compromise.
Not to say occasionally while going up I don't think a lighter binding would be nice, 'cos a 400g difference per foot is noticable. But the confidence clicking in at the top and never even having a slight niggle about bindings while skiing more than outweighs that for me.
EDIT: judging by the lack of chat about it I guess the new Marker (Duke PT or something?) has kinda flopped??
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@conor90,
I've done 3 day trips like that on
184cm fairly light skis with fritschi freerides
186cm fairly light skis with beast 14s
Certainly doable and I was only pretty fit at the time. That said I found skinning above 3000m hard.
When I saw a good deal on some light skis and bindings I did snap it up (superguide 88s and alpinists).
Reducing the time you spend bouncing off your aerobic limit does make your trip more fun!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Last season my biggest day was 1510m on 185cm Lotus 124 with Beast 14’s, which are about 2.75kg per foot. This season for big days I’ll be on 185cm 100mm DPS RP100 with ATK Crest’s, which are 1.8kg per foot. I’ve also swapped from Atomic Waymaker Tour’s to Tecnica Zero-G Pro’s, which save another 0.5kg per foot.
I usually find that my hip-flexors are the first thing that protests on big days, so losing 1.5Kg per leg should hopefully mean I float up the slope 
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I'm off to Japow in 3 weeks and trying to make my mind up between Faction 108mm/Speed Turn 2 @ 2200g or Wailer 112/Kingpins @ 2800g........
We'll be mostly touring 1000 or so a day, but may get the chance to ski Mt Yotei, which if we do a couple of crater laps could be 2000+m
Boots are Maestrales, so pretty light
Whatever I decide, I'll be missing the Factions on the up and the Wailers on the down............ 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Or slap a set of Alpinists on, but then I'd have 2 fairly similar setups and the Kingpin rig is easier going for side country laps back home.......
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@KenX, first world problems
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@BobinCH, I know..........
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Or buy a pair of lightweight 105's and super light Xenics eh 
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Poster: A snowHead
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I tested a pair of Faction Agent 1.0 with some light Plum binding today. I was interested in the 2.0 but they didn't have it in my length. I've used pin bindings before but hadn't gone hard downhill on them so I was doing that today. It was OK, I don't really care too much about piste performance but I still had fun. I'm testing shift bindings tomorrow, might do a quick skin up somewhere
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@zzz, late into this chat but surely one's ability to ski all snow types is very much enabled by how many poires one has had after lunch at the Cremaillere?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @zzz, late into this chat but surely one's ability to ski all snow types is very much enabled by how many poires one has had after lunch at the Cremaillere? |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@under a new name, absolutely and it will probably be put to the test tomorrow afternoon!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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No posts here for a while, @KenX, and I have been concentrating on long approaches before getting to some sweet conditions on primarily N facing slopes, climbing to just above the tree line and scoring good cold snow in openly spaced forests.
Any higher than around 2,400m and the faces are more wind affected, or stupidly steep and we draw the line at boot-packing steeps without guides etc
For example, I only skinned to just below the cliff band rather than the Col as the snow was just getting meh.
The approaches tend to be 90mins or so climbing up forest trails for around 500m still loads of snow but only skiable down the trail on the descent.
Yesterday opted for a route I'd never done before again focusing on what should be N facing, twas another long approach but looked to be better sking lower down.
Once we climbed up on to more of a plateau we could see the many options, again some windblown and others steep and others at least another 700m climb or so.
However, to our left up on the ridge was a Fort that we both had wanted to visit in the Summer and here it was possibly accessible, however as you can see it was so windblown for the last 100m or so of the climb, so I sort of ruled it out, instead we opted for a better descent and decided to climb again to a point where the snow was not worth climbing anymore.
So I was mildly surprised when @KenX, suggested going for the ridge and twenty mins later as we were both fighting for grip in some very dodgy snow-pack I was very relieved that it was not me that suggested going for it.
So this is the reason why we did it., Fort de Lenlon at 2,510m
More here and better pictures of what it's like in the summer http://fortiffsere.fr/briancon/index_fichiers/Page2725.htm
And then we chose a slightly different descent and had to get over the scoured windblown ridge 
Some of the terrain in the late afternoon light was stunning.
And the descent was not too bad 
That's why we do it.
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@Weathercam, last sentence sums it up
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@Weathercam, @KenX, looks great! I think you have graduated from “Wally’s” level now! Although @Mikepow could surely give a lesson on how to straight line the windscoured ridge looking at some of his Breaking Beacon posts
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| conor90 wrote: |
| I tested a pair of Faction Agent 1.0 with some light Plum binding today. I was interested in the 2.0 but they didn't have it in my length. I've used pin bindings before but hadn't gone hard downhill on them so I was doing that today. It was OK, I don't really care too much about piste performance but I still had fun. I'm testing shift bindings tomorrow, might do a quick skin up somewhere |
I think the Agent 2.0 would be ideal if you liked the 1.0 - I have the Dictator 1.0 and 2.0, same specs as Agents but stiffer/heavier, with Shift bindings on the 2.0 and they eat up anything that is thrown at them although I have struggled on them in deeper heavy powder as they want to go straight and can be hard work when tired. I am probably getting a set of Agent 2.0 with Market Alpinist as my lightweight set but waiting for March as prices should start coming down.
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Random question, but for someone living in the UK who enjoys touring, how do folk manage to de risk getting avalanched?
I introduced my wife to touring last weekend and she really enjoyed it but she said she wouldn’t want to go without a guide from a safety pov, which obviously adds massively to the costs .
I guess you guys living in resort get the local knowledge of the snowpack, which I’d never be able to get.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@kitenski,
1) Common sense - it hasn’t snowed for days, no new wind slabs, most stuff is well skied and there’s no visible activity. That means in popular areas avi risk is close to zero. Much bigger risk is falling due to wind slab / sliding on hard snow.
2) Terrain - stay on mellow slopes without exposure from above. If they are well skied any old layers will get regularly broken up. Ski touring near resorts is usually safer because of this.
3) official avi risk. Today is 2 - low risk
4) Local avalanche bulletin - this is for CH https://www.slf.ch/en/avalanche-bulletin-and-snow-situation.html#avalanchedanger
5) use online resources for routes and grading. Fatmap is quite good
6) Ask on here. For most of the popular areas there are people who will give you advice
7) If you are still concerned or want to ski gnarly stuff on a powder day get a guide or go with someone experienced
YMMV
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@kitenski, as @BobinCH, plus 1 to the above.
In addition for me, I've been touring a fair while and over the seasons and I've built up a fair portfolio of routes, these have come about by touring with guides previously, touring with the CAF, exploring potential routes hiking and biking in the Summer, and going off the back (slack country touring) out of resort.
Then working on variants to the above.
As I mentioned above even now when low risk I still do not do steep stuff / boot-packing up chutes as do a couple of people I know.
And Spring is actually the best time to initiate friends etc it is way safer and the skiing can be way better than some of the technical skiing we're currently doing.
I know it is difficult if you come out for a weeks holiday and want to do some touring, and many popular routes are exactly that too popular, again that's why Spring can be so much better as there's much more terrain to ski as you can ski different aspects at different times of the day, but again I suppose that comes down to local knowledge 
In fact powder ski touring with fat skis etc is something I've only been doing for the last four or five years, and that's also more to do with the fact that I'm now out here before the lifts open, so think we'd clocked up 10+ or so sorties before the lifts actually opened and some of that was skinning up the piste and skiing inter-piste terrain that normally gets tracked out very quickly.
If you copy and paste this massive link or click on it
https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/carte?c=6.599230259164536,44.95985119858531&z=15&l0=ORTHOIMAGERY.ORTHOPHOTOS::GEOPORTAIL:OGC:WMTS
It should fire up the French OS map of an area just behind us, and you can easily see the large blue dashed lines and these are ski tour routes and then you see how mellow they are and how they follow sensible climbing contours / spines etc
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@Weathercam, That link sounds very promising, but when I click it I just get a high level view of most of France. I can zoom in but still can't see the ski tour routes.
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You know it makes sense.
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@kitenski,
For ski-touring there are also various touring books/guides that can be purchased along with touring routes posted on the Internet (some have GPS tracks that you can download) - unfortunately I've only found these in the local language (i.e. for here German not English). The touring books/guides often give the avalanche danger and aspect vulnerability. In combination with the avalanche bulletin you can aim to avoid danger.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@kitenski, Bruce Goodlad’s book on ski touring skills is a great resource, especially if backed up with a course - several British mountain guides run good courses that give you the skills to make route-finding decisions in avalanche terrain.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Inboard, cheers, I was considering the BASI L3 mountain safety course
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thread moved to Off-Piste, thought it was more suitable.......
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Ozboy, I got the Agent 2.0 and shifts. They are a bit harder to turn in tight places but I'm sure I'll get better. I did my first tour on them today only about 500m. Definitely notice the extra weight compared to a light set up but I don't see it as anything too prohibitive, as long I'm fit enough!
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@conor90, In which resort were you able to demo and how did you find them going downhill? I think that is a good mid-weight one ski quiver you have there and could chop around 400 grams per ski if you went with Marker Alpinist down the road.
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@Ozboy, Chamonix, Sanglard had them. I'd probably change my boots first, I got them last before I realised I wanted to tour but they have tech bindings just not very light.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@conor90, yeah me too but my wife thinks I am a right wally for wanting new boots given I recently purchased some Technica Cochise 130 that are around 2Kgs each which are great as my normal boots. My setup is fine for fitness purposes going up the various snow covered paths and cat tracks around Chatel.
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FAQ
