 Poster: A snowHead
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My lad did the classic first day scenario of tearing his shoulder and collarbone at the Bellevard snowpark on Monday. He gathered himself up, boarded down to the lift, and got it down to the bottom, where he visited the Regie de Pistes. They told him to go to the medical centre, and he was going to do the 8minute walk when they offered a lift, so he took it.
The bill duly arrived, with €137 for the ambulance and an additional €225 for attendance in the "Zone Rapprochee".
As he was within the ski area, and got to the valley floor unaided, can anyone explain how this is calculated?
He has worked a season at Val d'Isere previously, so knows the ropes, and is fully insured. Obviously we may not have the full facts quite yet, but from his account so far, it seems that he has simply been stung with an extra charge. The only explanation may be that a "Regie" attended, but no action was taken. Thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Those are the standard charges as detailed - probably on the Val D'isere website, the Tignes ones are. Seems harsh but that's the way it is. I suspect they ordered him a private ambulance (was it white?) as Regie de Pistes do not have ambulances. The only consolation is that it would have been a lot more from the park.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@cstreat, did the Regie look/examine your lad, therefore they're probably fair to invoice for that bit and if not how did they know to suggest him to go to the Medical Centre?
They then did take him to the Medical Centre, so fair to charge for that too I suspect.
As @chocksaway says they'll be declared fixed fees published somewhere so I'd pass ot your sons insurers and move on.
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Totally agree that the ambulance is fair as the prices are displayed clearly, but I don't believe that he was examined or helped on the piste or at the bottom , which is what the second charge is for. Medical aid was purely verbal, and unsolicited. I'll probably find that he's talking dangly bits and he was sledded down, we'll see. On the other hand, it may be a heads up for someone else.
Sure insurance will deal with it, but I'd have wanted my moneys worth! At least it's taught him a couple of life lessons along the way.
@marcellus, @chocksaway, sound advice, thank you; I am moving on immediately by putting my snow tyres on, loading kit, leaving for the Maurienne tomorrow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For someone who has done a season sounds like he was a bit wet behind the ears re std French injury SOP. Lucky he wasn't in Austria they'd have probably called in a heli for the 8 min walk 
(FTAOD I know many people have cause to be grateful for Austrian helivac if possible but it amused me when I heard it was the preferred approach for even minor ailments like broken arms etc.)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have been helped by a pisteuse in Tignes, I bumped my head with my skis while I was carrying them, and wasn't charged anything. I got the bus to the medical centre though but spoke to her a few days later and she didn't mention anything about paying.
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Update: he actually visited the Regie at the top of the Olympic gondola, was not examined or aided, but told to go to the medical centre . Unsolicited, a Regie member travelled in the gondola with him. That is all. He has a witness, and insurance have written that he should not have been charged. He is a unsupported uni student, who can ill afford to pay the medical bill upfront, let alone over €200 for nothing.
@Dave of the Marmottes, what is the standard French injury SOP, for future reference? Never speak to them, perhaps?
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It does sound a bit much. Moral, for me, is to spend the price of a coffee on Carte Neige. Or Carre Neige, as appropriate.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@pam w, Sound advice; I've just arrived in Val Cenis and done just that. But must admit to it being a more recent habit.
He worked hard to pay for his trip himself, and to be financially independent as a student, but I did pay for insurance for him.
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Out of curiosity why did your son go to the regie and not the medical centre in the first place?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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How’s his shoulder?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sounds like he’s been invoiced for a service not provided. Don’t pay.
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@cstreat, I don't know exactly but as soon as you talk to pisteurs re an injury you are opening yourself up to an assistance fee. Plus of course they'll have no problem calling their mates with a private ambulance rather than putting you in a taxi - part liability I imagine but also in large part the business model.
Anyway shouldn't his insurance be picking up the tab? And it is just simple prudence to have a credit card for such cashflow emergencies.
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You know it makes sense.
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His insurance have refused the fee, and asked him to email the Regie that they have charged incorrectly.
He's torn his acromio-clavicular ligaments, apparently grade 2 so not too bad, especially compared with the 2 others from his uni, one with a broken leg and the other with a totally destroyed shoulder. But it's ruined a promising rugby season for him
@sasha320, thanks for asking.@johnE, I guess he was asking what/where to go, but lord only knows with my kids; we live 640 miles apart.
When one's offspring are studying subjects well beyond one's own intellect, they tend to think they know everything, when infact they have feck all life experience really, plus when in pain alot of us wouldn't necessarily act logically, I guess.
I didn't mean to sound like I was daddying my little boy, as he has got to lead his own life, and insurance will eventually cover it. It was more of a heads up about the expense of mountain rescue, and the possibility of mis charging for it. None of our family have had the misfortune to need help on the slopes before.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@cstreat, I fear your lad us about to learn a very expensive lesson if the insurers have now said they won't cover he cost based on his report to them.
I hope he has success getting the Regie and the Ambulance to reduce their fees.
They will I suspect come back and say "patient sought our advice/assistance, we called an ambulance for himand then we escorted/assisted him to said Ambulance."
Technically which is what they did, whereas your sons counter is "yes they did all that but I didn't ask them to (apart from initially walking into the Poste de Regie and giving them my full contact details)
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Poster: A snowHead
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So email the Regie
Say insurance have refused to pay and consider they are pulling a fast one and if they want reimbursement to take it up with insurance co - give details and a claims handler contact.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
So email the Regie
Say insurance have refused to pay and consider they are pulling a fast one and if they want reimbursement to take it up with insurance co - give details and a claims handler contact. |
My concern for @cstreat is that the Insurers have already passed the buck back to his son.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| marcellus wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
So email the Regie
Say insurance have refused to pay and consider they are pulling a fast one and if they want reimbursement to take it up with insurance co - give details and a claims handler contact. |
My concern for @cstreat is that the Insurers have already passed the buck back to his son. |
Exactly. They haven't billed the insurance company, they've billed the lad who is now not getting it back from insurance. The Regie won't mind who pays them as long as someone does.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| marcellus wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
So email the Regie
Say insurance have refused to pay and consider they are pulling a fast one and if they want reimbursement to take it up with insurance co - give details and a claims handler contact. |
My concern for @cstreat is that the Insurers have already passed the buck back to his son. |
No doubt and he therefore needs to pass the buck back. If you make it clear to the Regie that he's a penniless student and their only chance is if insurance pay they can thrash it out. If , of course he has already paid by credit card then ask for chargeback re fraud though not unreasonably cc company might ask why the cc was even provided.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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They normally keep hold of skis, snowboards, etc as a guarantee unless you have carte neige or their local alternative.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@cstreat, not sure if you are saying it was a uni trip so he had mates with him? I can easily see that the Regie would think that someone with suspected broken bones / ligaments / worse ought to be accompanied to the medical centre. If the Regie had to accompany him in order that his mates could continue in the park clearly they would want to charge!
Who carried his board in and out of the gondola / to the ambulance / to the medical centre? If he carried it himself, that might be a stronger argument for the Regie to drop their charge. If the Regie had to carry it, because of the suspected injuries, then it was probably reasonable for them to charge but the insurance company ought to cover the cost - as it was in their interests for him to minimise the risk of (at that time, unknown) further injury / damage.
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| Quote: |
He's torn his acromio-clavicular ligaments, apparently grade 2 so not too bad, especially compared with the 2 others from his uni, one with a broken leg and the other with a totally destroyed shoulder. But it's ruined a promising rugby season for him
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My sympathies to your son. I did the same a couple years ago. When I sought treatment on return to the UK the grade went up on every visit to the hospital to eventually grade 4. It needed a quite dramatic sounding operation to repair which included lobbing part of the collar bone off. It was almost a year before I could get my arm straight above my head.
I hope it doesn't affect your son's studies. To me that is much more serious than getting the money back from the insurance company. Surely all he has to do is send the receipts to the insurance company. Why would the insurance company think he has been incorrectly billed?
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Thinking about it.
Son get injured while boarding and seeks assistance from regie.
Son sends receipts off to insurance company to be reimbursed for payments made.
Insurance company refuses invoice on grounds that it knows better than the paramedic professionals on site
Surely it is the insurance company that is engaged in sharp practice.
Could you please name this company so we can avoid them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@johnE, Was thinking that myself - at the very least it is unreasonable for them to punt this back onto the clearly injured party. Maybe he was sloppy when he talked to them becuase in pain/under influence of painkillers etc so wouldn't be unreasonable for dad to step in and "have a word".
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@johnE, my interpretation of what's happened is the OPs lad got the invoices and when he sent them to insurers said something along the lines if "dunno what these are for as it never happened" (much like the OPs initial post) so insurers say "if it never happened you need to speak to them as we only pay out for things that actually happened"
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sounds like a tough life lesson... but in the grand scheme, not eye-watering. Standard practice for dealing with insurance companies is ‘call them ASAP’ - clearly this is not always practical, but if they are making the decisions at the time, then you know if you are covered. Anecdote - when my wife broke here ankle, and ski patrol wanted 200 euros to sled her, I was on the phone to the insurers to check it was covered - which the confirmed it was. Settled without issue once back in UK.
Not sure I would have had the presence of mind to do that at a younger age...
Equally, would have thought a reputable travel insurance company would be more familiar with French SOP than the average tourist...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@hamilton, I've only been blood waggoned off once - the other shoulder this time. I just collected all the invoices together and sent them off to the insurance company. No need to contact them. I knew I was covered for recovery from the slope in event of an accident. It said so on the policy documents. They paid up quickly - minus the excess and taking a hefty premium on the exchange rate as well.
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@marcellus, Spot on. He was invoiced and passed it on. The insurer ( highly regarded in snow sports) has only asked for clarification. Some very good points made, and I will find out if his board was carried. Thank you.
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You know it makes sense.
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As the value is not huge, the insurance company is not likely to dig its heals in that much especially if their legal costs are more than an hours work.
I would just send them a solicitors letter advising them that they are in breach of contract / mis-selling.
Your son purchased an insurance policy to cover against financial losses arising through injury as a result of participating in winter sports.
If being treated / evacuated to a medical centre is not explicitly excluded, then remind them of their legal obligation to pay these charges once in possession of the receipts, in an expedient fashion.
If this is excluded, then they have mis-sold you a Winter sports policy as it is unfit for purpose. Put the FCA in copy as they regulate the UK insurance providers.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@WindOfChange, but as the OP has acknowledged probably the only reason the insurers haven't paid out is because the insured said to them he'd been wrongly charged!
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Poster: A snowHead
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In that case they simply need to reply to the insurer, and state that upon checking the invoices for treatment, and seeking clarification from the healthcare provider, it appears that the billed charges are in fact correct.
Provide them an IBAN / Swift / Chaps pro-forma for reimbursement, and get them to confirm that the payment will be made within 72 hour - they have no legal grounds to delay or withhold payment.
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