Thomas Cook Woes - Driving Instead Maybe??

A snowHead

Hi All

Sixteen of us booked with Thomas Cook last Thursday to fly from Manchester to Grenoble next April for one week as we have already booked a chalet for 16 of us in Alpe D'Huez. We follow the same pattern each year namely book the chalet early and wait until Easy Jet release Spring flights then book them separately. Easy Jet released there flights last Thursday however the flights from Liverpool we would prefer to get were not going to Grenoble or Geneva on the right days. Flights were available with Easy Jet from Manchester but were double what we would usually pay. So we searched around and found Manchester - Grenoble flying with Thomas Cook on the right dates with perfect times. So 16 return flights were booked. Wake up on Friday to see the news of possibly going bust. I do feel so sorry for the staff who have lost their jobs and also the knock on effect that this will have with people abroad or waiting to go away imminently. We have been told by our credit card company that we should be covered for the full amount but until you get the refund you never quite know. One of our party paid for himself and his two daughters using debit card so he is in the process of finding out if he has any rights to a refund. Fingers crossed!!

So the trawl of the internet began again today to find alternative flights but it is proving so expensive to get from the North West over to either Grenoble, Geneva or Champery on the dates of 4th - 11th April 2020. Obviously it is the Easter break but the prices have gone through the roof and there are very limited flights to boot. Plus now there are god knows how many people like us in the position of trying to find new flights after the collapse of TC.

This got me thinking about driving as an alternative and I wanted to find out if anyone could help me out. Google Maps states 15hrs from Liverpool to Alpe D'Huez via the Chunnel. I think my plan would be to leave on the Friday morning and drive down to Folkestoen, ferry over to Calais with a night in a cheap hotel there. Then set off early on the Saturday morning and hopefully arrive in resort late afternoon. We start skiing on the Sunday until Friday and then do the journey in reverse from the Saturday morning ending up back in Liverpool on the Sunday evening.

If anyone could offer any tips or advice and even confirm if this is a do-able solution I would be so thankful. I am trying to sort this out for our group of sixteen who range in age from 9 - 75 so all help will be gratefully accepted.

Thanks

George

A snowHead

How about Lyon?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@holyjasper, its easy, I do the drive from Edinburgh 4 times a year. I like you split it into 2 easy days rather then 1 very long day.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

@Jonny996, Do you do it with 16 people though? Shocked

Sounds like a nightmare cat herding situation, with huge potential to go wrong. If you can afford it, I'd probably take the Easyjet option to save yourself a mountain of hassle. Or you could wait and see if the price comes down, though you risk not being able to accommodate a group that size. Hopefully you'll get your money back without too much trouble, though I'm sure the rumours were circulating since the middle of last week.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@holyjasper, as a guide to road travel we are 70miles from chunnel boarding and can get to most of the principal French ski areas in 12 / 13 hrs ish on a continuous journey door to door. That includes tunnel, family stops, fuel etc etc but travelling through the night going outbound.

If you add on your UK bit that'll give you a fair balance of actual journey I believe. It's not a complicated run, just working through the distance really. General practical average within normal speed limits would be 50mph including interruption of stops.

Plenty of helpful experience on here to answer specific questions so good support if you want to "flesh out" a plan.

We use "via Michelin " site to get very good journey planning, you can input various data for vehicles and it'll estimate fuel, toll cost etc too.

Plan to arrive at channel on way back with 2 hrs to wait for crossing and it'll not make you sweat it to get there on time if you have minor delays.

We've always travelled outward on Friday night through channel tunnel, normally around 21.00hr and never had any delays.

Definitely worth exploring road travel to get you out of needing flights.

You'll need to Register first of course.

@holyjasper, I think 15 hours from Liverpool to Alpe d'huez is a tad optimistic. It will take you at least 5, probably 6, hours to get to the channel and a couple hours to get across. Your idea of staying somewhere near Dover is a good idea. Also the traffic on a Saturday morning from Grenoble to Huez is notoriously bad as the locals head out for the day.

One further problem looms - Brexit. This could result is some massive delays at the tunnel and on the roads in Kent.

The train is another (not cheap) option, but you'll need to sort out a transfer from Grenoble.

At least you plan to travel before the Easter holiday and avoid a lot of the heavy holiday traffic eminating from Belgium, Netherlands and Northern France. May I suggest that since the Bank holiday is April 13th you ski on the Saturday and stay the Saturday night somewhere near Grenoble that way you get an extra 17% skiing time and a better value holiday.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@holyjasper, flights every day from Liverpool. Don't use the app, it does not show all flights. Go online.

After all it is free

then of course claim by whatever means for the TC flights

@holyjasper,
I do that run a few times a year. Last Wednesday set off from not far from you at just before midnight, about 5-00 am Thursday tunnel, arrived in Alpe d'Huez about 6-00pm after lunch / nap / shopping stops. More comfortable with an overnight stop but personally I would not do that anywhere near Calais, Reims' ish as going then ski on the last Saturday as it's dead quiet, overnight Saturday night Lyon' ish on way back and then home by Sunday evening.
Did this regular in the past with 2-3 kids.
4th to 11th is week running up to Easter weekend ?
You eat the kilometres quickly on a quiet autoroute at 130. Grenoble is a permanent PITA to get through now though as lots of work being done on ring road, you can bypass it on side roads but quite messy and not really much, if any, quicker to be honest.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

@holyjasper, When Monarch went tits up a couple years ago I had booked my flights using a credit card and got all my money back (not a lot I'd admit , the flights were very cheap). I suspect the person who paid by debit card will get none back.

Just a thought - why not fly to Paris and pick up the train there

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@johnE, It may have changed but in the past I have found it very difficult to match up flights to Paris / TGV Grenoble / Alpe d'Huez Bus. There were not many direct Paris - Grenoble TGV's and you would end up changing in Lyon to a local train or getting off at Lyon airport, in which case you might as well fly there most of the time. Quite messy I found, not too bad by yourself if it went wrong but with a big group I would not fancy the logistics to be honest.

snow reports

@holyjasper, of course it's perfectly doable to drive to the Alps. Many of us do it several times a year (twice in our case).

However, what you need to think about is if it suitable for your particular group. Do you have the requisite number of suitable vehicles. You would be advised to have winter tyres, even in April, and also tyre chains just in case. You may need roofbars or roofbox for ski's. Ideally you want a couple of drivers per car.

You will want to be realistic about the costs compared with flying - fuel, crossing, insurance, breakdown cover, tolls, tyres/chains/roofbars/roofbox.

Cost isn't always a winner with driving. But there are other plusses but you seem to be only concerned with cost.

@johnE, it may depend on the issuer of the debit card. You might be able to claim back using chargeback. https://www.money.co.uk/current-accounts/is-debit-card-protection-the-same-as-for-credit-cards.htm

You know it makes sense.

The journey itself is no big deal for people accustomed to long distance driving. But organising so many people of such a wide age range is, as @Scarlet suggests, quite a challenge. 16 people is 4 comfortable ordinary car loads, provided you don't have stupid amounts of luggage. If you can get 4 car owners to each take on logistics of their own journey, it could work well. People feel very differently about the case for more stops, or fewer stops, and for the type of hotel they want for any overnight stop (some perfectly happy with Formule 1, others picky about sharing toilets etc). Also potentially awkward arguments about cost sharing (e.g. if I were driving in my car and taking a couple of extra people I would expect them to pay for all the petrol, as I am putting big wear and tear on my car). Sharing driving can raise insurance problems as well as needing to agree in advance who pays what in the event of contingencies (e.g. big snow on the road necessitating an unforeseen overnight stop just short of your destination). Hence the need to avoid taking all that on yourself. If your 16 people resolve themselves into 4 family groups of 4, should be nice and easy provided everybody is independent. I personally wouldn't entertain any notion of driving in convoy (and I've driven back and forth to the Alps loads of times, though not from so far north).

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Driving works well for us but we make sure that we time our journey round the M25 during the early hours of the morning when it's normally very quiet. At other times of the day it's very easy to lose an hour or 2 on the M25.
We leave at 1:30 am on a Friday morning for a 6:00 am ferry (200 miles to Dover) and generally stop in the Cluses area at about 6:00 pm. 2 drivers makes the trip quite easy if a little tedious.

To make the most of driving you should consider aiming to arrive in resort ready to ski on the Saturday morning and then ski on the last Saturday not leaving until after lunch.

Driving in convoy can be a real pain as people have different thoughts on when they need to stop, how fast you should be going etc. and can lead to a bit of conflict even before the holiday starts. We did it once many years ago (pre satnav and mobile phones) using CB radio to keep in touch and it was a bit stressful. Wouldn't do it again.

A snowHead

When I used to get the ferry from Rosyth to Zeebrugge to go skiing, it was a good day driving from Zeebrugge which the ferry arrived in the early morning. I never encountered any traffic jams from Zeebrugge to the Alps. Sometimes I left home 2 hours before the ferry left Scotland, bought a ticket at the terminal (no advance booking) and caught the overnight ferry.

In my experience most of the traffic obstructions were on the M5/M6/M25/ North and particularly the South circular around London. From Liverpool you will experience the worst of that.

Timing is everything. If you leave at the right time, and aim to get to the busiest junctions at quiet times, you should be fine.

Maybe you should check to see if there any ferries from Liverpool to France. That could be a bypass option.

I think there are legal restrictions on driving in Europe in vehicles which carry more than 7 people. So you may need three drivers, and three cars, in order to bypass these laws.

A snowHead

@Bigtipper, There isn't and it would be a very long ferry ride from Liverpool. Maybe Hull to Zeebrugge might be an option? Or the Portsmouth ferries. We drive to Eurotunnel from Durham. If we aim to be at Dartford bridge for 10.30 am it is usually OK.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

If you only stand to lose a small deposit on the chalet it may be worth changing your destination?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Have you tried skyscanner?

Usually quite helpful in considering flight options for specific times with many different providers and transfer links.

You'll need to Register first of course.

If you are considering ferry and if price is a consideration check out the DFDS multi trip offers which can be transferred to friends and family

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Hull to Rotterdam is excellent. Living in Liverpool, you can drive around 600 miles through Holland and Germany ( France is you wish) in the time it takes to do less than half that to Dover. Liverpool to Hull is circa 2 hours. P&O have very large comfortable ships out of Hull.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

"...One of our party paid for himself and his two daughters using debit card so he is in the process of finding out if he has any rights to a refund..."

He should check out the ATOL route - did Thomas Cook issue a certificate ?

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Leave it to the individuals in the group to organise their own travel. They can then make their own decisions from the various options. Some won't think twice about the air fare being double; others will be happy to drive in one go; others will be happy to have a leisurely drive down with an overnight; some will go for an F1, others for somewhere more up-market. I've done 4 drivers in a fairly big car, swapping-round every 2 hours, all on one go. This means that your turn doesn't come around for another 6 hours, which is fine if you can doze in the car. But that was when I was younger and I didn't want to eat up holiday travelling. ALso, it was a company car, so I didn't care about adding over a thousand miles on the clock. Nowadays, it's just my wife and I doing it in 2 leisurely days, staying at a 3* Logis with a pool about half way. The merit of this is if the weather is bad. More than once we've arrived at our stopover, had a drink, had a swim in the pool, back to the room ... , leisurely meal with champagne, back to the room - and realised we'd still be driving, given the weather. Given the circumstances, I would have thought people will be understanding that you can't come up with a perfect alternative for everyone, and they have to be adult and sort it out among themselves.

snow reports

[url=][/url]

Given that Thomas Cook hold an ATOL certificate the chap should be covered (presuming he booked the flight direct with TC)

Quote from the CAA website

"Does ATOL cover flight only bookings ?

Only in some cases and usually only if you do not receive a valid flight ticket once you paid for the flight. If you book a flight with an ATOL holder (either direct or through a travel agent) and you get an ATOL Certificate as soon as you make payment, your booking is protected if the ATOL holder fails and the ATOL holder is also obliged to offer a refund should the airline that you are booked with fail financially.

Remember though, if you are not ATOL protected and you book with a travel agent, make sure you receive your airline tickets as soon as you pay. That way, should the agency fail, the airline should honour your booking. In these circumstances you are not directly protected against the chance of the airline that you are booked with failing, so you should check whether any travel insurance that you have includes it, and, if not, consider taking out additional cover...."

======================EDIT============

Or maybe not !!!
From the ABTA website

" Flights booked directly with Thomas Cook airlines are not covered by ATOL or ABTA so customers will need to contact their card issuer...."

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@holyjasper, commiserations, really bad luck Sad

A snowHead

I believe its possible on the train Londen to Grenoble in 8hrs.

A snowHead

We drive by choice several times each winter from North Yorkshire and much prefer it. We have a 4x4, very good chains which, whilst we have never had to use, could put them very efficiently as we practice before each journey, know the route and enjoy long car trips. It’s really straightforward, we leave early, use the tunnel from Folkestone, spend the first night around Troyes and drive to Val d’Isere to arrive in daylight the following day.

It was a bit daunting the first time but we very much prefer it now.

I think whoever said to let everyone make their own way to the chalet is right. Different options will suit different people- but if some drive there’s someone to do go to Bourg to collect train travellers if that’s the way some choose to travel.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

I assume the Thomas Cook demise will also affect a lot of TOs who use Thomas Cook chartered flights. I guess there's a chance alternative flights will not be possible in every instance.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

We drive to the alps (winter) and south of France (in summer) regularly from the south east. I appreciate you have a longer drive in the UK but would still recommend driving particularly at Easter.

I would aim to get further south than Calais the first day.. book accommodation in Reims or Troyes.
On the way back Reims would be a good place to stop.

We have had winter tyres for Easter journeys but if your journey is a one off you could manage without...you would still need chains.

You could look at other airports to get a cheaper flight eg. Marseille ...although if that meant hiring several cars it might still work out expensive.

You could look into other transport options eg. rail. Have a look at snowcarbon website.

You'll need to Register first of course.

@holyjasper, also worth looking at what consequential loss is covered by section 75, when Monarch went bust I claimed the additional cost of new flights as a consequential loss and that was covered by my credit card.
The situation was slightly different, we were only a couple of weeks before departure and were travelling to a Greek Island at the end of the season all of which limited other options, and I’d booked the new flights by 6am on the day they went bust - by 8am all were sold out.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I wouldn't rush to book flights - I'd expect there to be an artificial spike in prices as competitors of TC cash in on people's enthusiasm to book quickly out of desperation.
I'd expect it to settle down a bit in a couple of weeks.
And if it doesn't your other options such as driving or the train will be the same anyway.

After all it is free

@admin, too true, easyjet to Salzburg we have already booked in Feb have risen 33% in 2 weeks. That is not normal.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

The main pain and stress of the drive is getting to Dover. And the chunnel is always delayed at peak holiday times in my experience.

It sounds like you're quite tight on money but as an alternative, especially if you can get 4 to a car and don't mind sharing a bunk room.

M62 to Hull and get the overnight ferry to Zebrugge. 4/room will come out not that far off cost of hotel. Wake up in the morning, have breakfast, off you go.

Ferry is usually 18:30 so only take a half day on the Friday.

Ideally you want a min. of 2 drivers per car. It's a long slog (I allow 12 hours min. on the other side, to get to Nendaz, CH).

Two full tanks each way for me. Unless you're really cutting costs, take the French motorways and get the French motorway toll doofer in advance. You can drive through the toll stations, special lane, at approx. 25 mph. Approx. 100 gbp round trip.

Help!!

Thomas Cook Woes - Driving Instead Maybe??

snowHeads Forum Index >>> The Piste