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French speeding ticket

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
AUDI Another Useless Driver Inside Laughing

Although there are those that insist the D stands for something else Smile
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Alastair Pink wrote:
@jma, talking of Belgians, beware of any old Belgian drivers - they didn't introduce compulsory driving tests in Belgium until 1977!! Shocked


Correct. But you can combine this with the knowledge that in Belgium the number plate stays with the driver not the car. When I lived there in the early 90s most plates were six characters. When we saw a plate with only five, we treated it with even more caution than usual!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
davidof wrote:
Even worse in the Savoie where a large number of drivers are also drunk.






and to prove my point Gaëlle Voiry, a very popular ex Miss France and her husband have been killed by a hit and run drunk driver in the Haute-Savoie this weekend who was overtaking at speed on a departmental road at the time. He's been arrested.

There is a very serious problem with bad driving in this country and drunk driving in certain departments like the two Savoies.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 1-10-19 22:52; edited 1 time in total
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That road is the main road from Geneva to Thonon, there is a camera (80KMH) half way along, but people just brake hard then accelerate again. Dangerous at the best of times, without drunk drivers.
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I have to say the stigma of drink driving is not as intense in France as in the UK. in the UK it is completely sociably unacceptable & if I knew anyone that done it I would cut my ties with them
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HossDoc wrote:
@davidof, are there road markings that indicate “Stop” or “Priorité à droite” or just (often) hidden signage?


that's an important question for anyone driving on French roads. Here are the road signs you may see:



Sign 1: priority from the right, even if you are on a main road you have to give way to the side road except if it is a drive, car park or some such - that is not a N,D or C road.
Sign 2: You have priority over side roads
Sign 3: You no longer have priority
Sign 4: You have priority over the side road at the next junction - this would a one off change in priority

In general the rule is : priority to traffic from the right (except modern roundabouts). You can also look at the line on the ground when you approach a junction but the reality is the lines are often worn and invisible.

To recap
1. You have priority
2. You don't have priority



Priority from the right is pretty common in European countries, not just France.
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A friend found a French speeding ticket waiting for him at his UK address, when he returned from holiday. He was wondering what the consequences might be if he ignored it. He was also wondering if they require evidence of who was driving, in order to enforce such a penalty, as in the UK.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@tatmanstours, The French authorities don't give a toss about who was driving if it was issued by a camera.
The ticket goes to the owner of the vehicle, which they get from the DVLA.
On a separate sheet in the envelope containing the fine notice is a form if you wish to contest the fine, or provide other driver details.
It's then up to them to pay up, or get the person who was driving to pay up.
If your friend does not pay, then the French will apply majorations (increases), initially from Eur 45 to Eur 68, but then more on the top of that. They may issue further notices advising of the increase. Since 2017 the DVLA shares information with foreign authorities for certain categories of motoring offence of which speeding is one.
Foreign agencies may engage the services of debt collection organisations such as European Municipality Outsourcing to recover unpaid fines.
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@WindOfChange, Thanks. So let’s suppose that your Australian cousin is driving a car registered in your name. You complete the form, nominating them and providing their address. I presume, from what you say, that a fine notice would be sent to them (accompanied by another nomination form, in case they want to nominate someone else as the driver).
If they fail to respond, does liability for the penalty revert to the registered keeper? If they do nominate someone else, does the merry go round continue until someone admits being the driver or fails to respond? Is it necessary, as in the U.K., for a court to consider evidence and convict the registered keeper of an offence before a speeding penalty can be enforced? If so, is it necessary for the court to be presented with evidence that the registered keeper was in fact the driver, as in the U.K.? Are there strict time limits, as in the U.K. , within which (a) a notice of intended prosecution must be sent to the registered keeper; (b) proceedings must be commenced in order not to be time-barred?
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The laws are different in France, end of, whether you think they're right or not. They sometimes send speeding notifications many months after the event. The margin of error is also very slim, only 5km/h in areas with limits less than 100km/h.
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@tatmanstours, Like I said, for tickets not issued at the side of the road they don't care who is driving.
It's up to the owner of the vehicle to ensure its paid. The longer they procrastinate, the more expensive it is.
So even though they name the Australian cousin as the driver ( for virtual points ), the owner must ensure that the fine is paid.
While in the UK, the courts want to know who it was, as they are prosecuting that driver, the French are not prosecuting anyone - they are simply seeking payment from the owner of a vehicle involved in a traffic infraction. They just need to prove ( if challenged ) that the vehicle was clocked speeding.
There is really no incentive to name another driver, as you only get virtual points, and the fine goes up the longer you leave it.
I believe that they have a year from the date of the offence to issue the notice.
The payment clock starts ticking from the day they get receipt of posting ( there is no proof of delivery ).

On another note, the notion of registered keeper vs owner does not really exist in France. Most insurance companies will only insure the owner, plus other nominated drivers. Some companies will insure (for a short time) vehicles not owned by you, but it's expensive, as they suspect something is dodgy (and they are normally right).

The 2 reasons are: Firstly to prevent uninsured vehicles, as you cannot cancel your insurance until you can prove you have sold the vehicle, or that it has been insured elsewhere.

Secondly, to transfer ownership the car must have a Control Technique less than 6 months old, unless the transfer is done for scrap or repair, and in this case the carte grise is issued NOT valid for road use, and the new owner must get a new Controle Technique and then reregister the car again if they want to use it legally on the roads.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Claude B wrote:
The laws are different in France, end of, whether you think they're right or not. They sometimes send speeding notifications many months after the event. The margin of error is also very slim, only 5km/h in areas with limits less than 100km/h.


Just received another yesterday, second in the last few months after more than a decade of doing similar trips with nothing.

This time it was again 'just over' at 92kph in a 90kph zone (after the 5kph allowance). I accept it, and will pay it. Does feel a bit like they are going hard on it though as like I say these two are the only tickets I've had in France ever and similarly I've not had one in the UK for maybe 12yrs.

When I'm in the truck going to/from UK I always drive steady, not because I claim to be virtuous but rather because I'm a tight Yorkshireman and the pick-up sucks juice if you hammer it.
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@midgetbiker, Puts me off taking the French route to Austria (if the tolls were not enough).

@Claude B, @WindOfChange, From what you say it sounds as though the French road traffic laws are much more draconian and watertight than here in the U.K., where various defences to speeding tickets are still tenable. A N.I.P. must be served on the registered keeper within 14 days, proceedings must be commenced within 6 months, and the prosecution must be able to prove that the defendant was the driver.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@midgetbiker, Puts me off taking the French route to Austria (if the tolls were not enough).

@Claude B, @WindOfChange, From what you say it sounds as though the French road traffic laws are much more draconian and watertight than here in the U.K., where various defences to speeding tickets are still tenable. A N.I.P. must be served on the registered keeper within 14 days, proceedings must be commenced within 6 months, and the prosecution must be able to prove that the defendant was the driver.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I love driving on the french auto system as the traffic seems to flow much better than in the UK partly because you dont see any lane hogging as mentioned in earlier posts. Having a toll tag also speeds things up. I dread returning and having to use the Dartford tunnel with its massive queues. The bridge in fine: tunnel rubbish.

During the summer I was using the local roads more and ended up with 2 speeding fines via non flash cameras, of 25 euro each as I'd forgotten that the local limits had been reduced. No points though.
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ipken wrote:
I love driving on the french auto system as the traffic seems to flow much better than in the UK


ha ha ha, you clearly don't drive daily around any large French urban area.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The Belgian's, are without doubt, the worst drivers in Europe. Couple this with two of the most congested routes in Europe, the Ghent and Brussels Bypasses and it always makes for an entertaining journey. To show off their dangerous driving skills, the Belgian's built the 'Loop' in Ghent which is so exhilarating, they could actually charge you to drive on it, much like an Alton Tower's ride or the Nurberg Ring.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
We've just got a French speeding ticket in the post from a trip to Loire in late September. 45 Euro fine for 79kph in a 70 zone in Tours. Lead footed wife. Small price to pay for the flexibility and freedom of a driving holiday.
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I've just been dine again. I exactly the same.spot. 79 in the 70.zone on the run in to calais
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@cameronphillips2000, you think you'd have learnt your lesson wink.
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Exactly
.dumb.man.
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davidof wrote:
ipken wrote:
I love driving on the french auto system as the traffic seems to flow much better than in the UK


ha ha ha, you clearly don't drive daily around any large French urban area.


...Or have never had a driver sitting 2m behind you at motorway speed, his indicator going, whilst you driving at the speed limit passing a stream of slower cars. When you can eventually pull over he passes you, 2kmh faster than you.

There are good and bad everywhere. Overall the French lane discipline is better, but that's about it.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
bar shaker wrote:
Overall the French lane discipline is better, but that's about it.


Well they've generally only got two to choose from so that's not so hard, where there are three they sit in the middle lane just like the Brits.
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cameronphillips2000 wrote:
I've just been dine again. I exactly the same.spot. 79 in the 70.zone on the run in to calais


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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@cameronphillips2000, Lucky they haven't agreed to apply points....yet!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I caught up with another English guy, who was here all last winter, last week. He accumulated 16 tickets Shocked
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Worth bearing in mind that whilst points may not accrue against your licence in the UK, speeding fines (traffic fines generally) are a required disclosure when taking out insurance on your vehicle and will affect the premium you pay. Non-disclosure of course could lead to invalidation of your insurance premium.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I spend a lot of time in France - when I got back to the UK in September I had a fixed penalty fine letter waiting for me.

I have spoken to a few people (including French and English lawyers), and the advice I have received suggests that you should pay and that they will pursue you through the UK civil courts if you do not.

Add to that the fact that they will log the details of your car so that when you next enter France if you are stopped it could be impounded until you pay the fine and all the accumulated charges.

My fine was €45 and I paid it within the time limit.

I like a challenge, but unless you want the risks associated with not paying, or you never intend to go back to France, then each time you drive down the ferry ramp you'll have that nagging doubt about each and every blue flashing light you will see.

Doubtless there are some who revel in continuing to dodge paying, but is it really worth it for £41 and no points???
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
FrediKanoute wrote:
Worth bearing in mind that whilst points may not accrue against your licence in the UK, speeding fines (traffic fines generally) are a required disclosure when taking out insurance on your vehicle and will affect the premium you pay. Non-disclosure of course could lead to invalidation of your insurance premium.


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@oofaafuu, I have had no issue with paying mine. The website is even in English.

I now use Waze and haven't had any since doing so.
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Poster: A snowHead
Claude B wrote:
I caught up with another English guy, who was here all last winter, last week. He accumulated 16 tickets Shocked


Someone at work is whinging he's just had to go on his 3rd driver education course to recover a few points so he can keep driving.

I told him "those courses are clearly a complete waste of time".


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 29-10-19 14:39; edited 1 time in total
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Having been zapped for £65 for an accidental 30 second trip in a buslane on the way home from Octobertest, €45 is quite reasonable.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
davidof wrote:
Claude B wrote:
I caught up with another English guy, who was here all last winter, last week. He accumulated 16 tickets Shocked


Someone at work is whinging he's just had to go on his 3rd driver education course to recover a few points so he can keep driving.

I told him "those courses are clearly a complete waist of time".

Very true. Unfortunately, driving and paying attention aren’t many drivers primary concern when they are driving. I also know from when I’m walking or cycling on roads, many drivers are only looking 4 or 5 car lengths in front of them, judging by how many swerve when they eventually see me.

Most of those I know who have been caught speeding, were on sections that had had the limit reduced often months or years previously, and they hadn’t being paying any attention.
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Beware that the Arve valley (Geneva Chamonix autoroute) is going onto its winter speed limit of 110kph from this weekend.
(and I agree that the speed limit changes from Sallanches up to Chamonix can be unclear).
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Beware driving from Bourg to Aime on the N90 the short 3 lane (2 lanes Westbound) section now has 90 signs and then 80 at the end of the wide bit and then 70 on the bend, no doubt a camera will appear there soon!
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Sounds as though you’d be better off avoiding France and driving to Austria wink


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 29-10-19 16:45; edited 1 time in total
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@PowderAdict, my car works out the speed limit automatically (from road signs, GPS and the weather) but this doesn't stop Frenchmen people trying to get a tad close from the rear. Any suggestion on how to discourage these French nutcases?
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
boredsurfin wrote:
Beware driving from Bourg to Aime on the N90 the short 3 lane (2 lanes Westbound) section now has 90 signs and then 80 at the end of the wide bit and then 70 on the bend, no doubt a camera will appear there soon!

They used to have temporary cameras at that section quite often anyway. My dear old dad was done there and pulled over for an on the spot fine a few years ago
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Alastair wrote:
@PowderAdict, my car works out the speed limit automatically (from road signs, GPS and the weather) but this doesn't stop Frenchmen people trying to get a tad close from the rear. Any suggestion on how to discourage these French nutcases?


Tailgaiting in France, tell me about it. Sometimes they are so close you can smell their bad-breath.

No idea how you stop it, maybe large spikes on the back of your car?



My son, who is now doing his driving lessons, tells me the advice from the driving school is to dab the brake pedal. I find this has precisely no effect.
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[quote="davidof"]
Alastair wrote:
[b}but this doesn't stop Frenchmen people trying to get a tad close from the rear. Any suggestion on how to discourage these French nutcases?


Tailgaiting in France, tell me about it. Sometimes they are so close you can smell their bad-breath.

No idea how you stop it, maybe large spikes on the back of your car

I always find that moving across to the right hand lane solves the tailgating problem Smile
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