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Stop The Massacre Of Glaciers

 Poster: A snowHead
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This is a horrifying pic, but does anyone know what they are trying to achieve with the diggers?

https://alpinemag.fr/stop-au-massacre-des-glaciers/?fbclid=IwAR1nVmSj6Ugw1HKhALsA2VBGKdJ_spr0ABgUpg2oaYfJuC3Q6euIXgurCH4
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kitenski wrote:
This is a horrifying pic, but does anyone know what they are trying to achieve with the diggers?

https://alpinemag.fr/stop-au-massacre-des-glaciers/?fbclid=IwAR1nVmSj6Ugw1HKhALsA2VBGKdJ_spr0ABgUpg2oaYfJuC3Q6euIXgurCH4


It is to fill in crevasses, reduce the slope angle etc. to make the glacier skiable in the winter. They do similar things on other glaciers although maybe this is on a bigger scale than usual due to the proposed link and new pistes. The price of glacier skiing I'm afraid.
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Good article in the link, the Alps have more than enough skiing to cater for everyone, 'mega' resorts are generally quiet during the majority of the season out with the 6 peak weeks. Last season I've been the only person on entire chair lifts and pistes in Paradiski, Kitz, La Thuile etc.
Constant expansion and linking of existing resorts will create a grave yard of abandoned ski stations in the middle term I predict.
I would support an EU wide ban on ski area expansion, or support any resort that announced they were reducing lift pass prices instead of spending X Million on new lifts/runs/areas etc
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No idea what exactly they are trying to do on this particular place, but there's plans (or maybe construction is already going on) for connecting Soelden and Pitztal glaciers, and as far as I just quickly browsed something with this picture related few days ago, it's about this connection.
Sure "stop massacre of glaciers" but on other side we would go skiing on glaciers (or elsewhere, as "massacre of nature" is just as same for normal ski runs/resorts) . Well it doesn't go both ways Wink
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On exactly the same topic https://www.wetteronline.de/fotostrecken/2019-09-19-al?part=single . I have always thought that glacier skiing areas are particularly intrusive. Both Saas Fee and Stubai come to mind as being particularly unattractive with rubble strewn areas covered with pylons.
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https://alpinemag.fr/stop-au-massacre-des-glaciers/?fbclid=IwAR1nVmSj6Ugw1HKhALsA2VBGKdJ_spr0ABgUpg2oaYfJuC3Q6euIXgurCH4
Looks very dangerous, have they done a risk assessment ? How do you get a digger out of a crevass ?
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Its easy to imagine the backlash against skiing infrastructure growing, as it already is against diesel vehicles or meat. And it may not be unreasonable. The ski areas are going to need to some credible strategies and arguments.
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davidof wrote:
It is to fill in crevasses, reduce the slope angle etc. to make the glacier skiable in the winter. They do similar things on other glaciers although maybe this is on a bigger scale than usual due to the proposed link and new pistes. The price of glacier skiing I'm afraid.


I don't understand the science of glaciers, but could filling in the gaps ultimately be a benefit?
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SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
davidof wrote:
It is to fill in crevasses, reduce the slope angle etc. to make the glacier skiable in the winter. They do similar things on other glaciers although maybe this is on a bigger scale than usual due to the proposed link and new pistes. The price of glacier skiing I'm afraid.


I don't understand the science of glaciers, but could filling in the gaps ultimately be a benefit?


No idea, maybe it would, they are all going to melt anyway over the next 50-60 years.
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You'll see in the photo that the untouched surface is covered with a dark top layer of dirt/dust (possibly from the atmosphere, sometimes saharan sand falls onto glaciers given southerly winds). That dark layer will absorb more heat from the Sun and melt quicker, so turning over the top layer and exposing the white snow beneath might actually be expected to slow the rate of the glacier melting. I'm not saying that such artificial rearrangement of the glacier is necessarily a good thing however.
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Alastair Pink wrote:
You'll see in the photo that the untouched surface is covered with a dark top layer of dirt/dust (possibly from the atmosphere, sometimes saharan sand falls onto glaciers given southerly winds). That dark layer will absorb more heat from the Sun and melt quicker, so turning over the top layer and exposing the white snow beneath might actually be expected to slow the rate of the glacier melting. I'm not saying that such artificial rearrangement of the glacier is necessarily a good thing however.


and in the same vein there is a theory that compaction of snow by skiers and piste bashers helps conserve glaciers. Without a more scientific study we probably won't know the truth.

The works on the glacier on the photo have started before planning permission has been granted - which seems par for the course with ski resorts all over the Alps
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@Lechbob, with the biggest jumars you ever saw! And: how long have you been in Driggs? Remember the British Rail?
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Around ~50% of the skiable summer glaciers in the Northern Hemisphere have already melted away.

A couple Cats digging a hole in tiny Austria ain't gonna change zip.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Nothing horrifying about the picture, its standard Summer maintenance for glacier pistes in many ski resorts. The piste would be unusable in Winter due to skiers falling down the crevasse's Twisted Evil
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Pretty easy to see the photo and act outraged. Without more information it's hard to know what's actually going on, and as noted by others it could actually have positive affects of maintaining the glacier.

Quote:

I would support an EU wide ban on ski area expansion, or support any resort that announced they were reducing lift pass prices instead of spending X Million on new lifts/runs/areas etc


Ski resorts are businesses. They are run for profit. They should do whatever they see fit (legally) to increase profit. There are plenty of more pressing matters that the EU could do something about.

Quote:

Constant expansion and linking of existing resorts will create a grave yard of abandoned ski stations in the middle term I predict


So? It's normal that some business grow, some fail. I don't see the issue. If there is demand for small resorts people will use them and they will stay in business. If there is no demand there is no reason for them to stay in business.

The article seems like the standard skier virtue signalling (POW is the worst for this). Happy to complain about the environment, while still taking part in resort skiing which is clearly not good in terms of carbon footprint and cutting down plants and trees for pistes. Until they move to 100% ski touring they are hypocrites for complaining.
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It certainly doesn’t look good and if they have not received consent then that is not going to inspire confidence in other proposals they may have.

I would have thought that mixing air into the glacier would hasten it’s decline?

There is a bigger question here. How many seasons do we have left before a lot of the ski infrastructure becomes redundant? At what point does Snowcover become too unreliable to sustain the spending. 5 years? 10, 20?
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Quote:

Constant expansion and linking of existing resorts will create a grave yard of abandoned ski stations in the middle term I predict


Ski resorts are a bit different to normal businesses tho. Personally I wouldn't like to see any abandoned resorts or infrastructure if it can be avoided, the climate and rising snow line means resorts already are and will continue to struggle. To see some areas eventually fail due to ever expansion would be sad.
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Quote:


To see some areas eventually fail due to ever expansion would be sad.



Where has this happened though? There are plenty of abandoned areas in North America, where space is of abundance. In Europe these smaller resorts will just get swallowed into bigger resorts as they expand, unless they have fundamental problems (e.g. too low to get consistent snow). It's like the people that are sad the high streets and pubs are closing while doing all their shopping online and drinking cheap supermarket alcohol at home. It's not sad, it's just business and lack of demand.
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There’s are article here with some abandoned Italian resorts.

https://newrepublic.com/article/154261/climate-change-italy-alps-ruins-ski-resorts

Most due to lack of reliable snow or financial mismanagement it seems. I’m not sure it’s the lack of custom.
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Quote:


Most due to lack of reliable snow or financial mismanagement it seems. I’m not sure it’s the lack of custom.



Lack of snow = lack of custom.
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Swiss to hold a Funeral March to mark the disappearance of a Glacier today

"...Dozens of people will undertake a "funeral march" up a steep Swiss mountainside on Sunday to mark the disappearance of an Alpine glacier amid growing global alarm over climate change...."


http://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/swiss-to-hold-high-altitude-wake-for-lost-glacier/ar-AAHE0Dg?srcref=rss
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Pizol glacier...another one bites the dust

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Mont Blanc Glacier in Danger of Collapse Warn Experts Sad

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49820542
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I'd posted that at a similar time, as couldn't find the thread (thinking I need glasses... Shocked)

maybe it could be merged to this thread Smile
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