 Poster: A snowHead
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Intermediate skier enjoying (not too narrow) black pistes, even icy or unbashed, aiming to go off piste. Suffering from uneven technique. I am looking for a 4-5 days course, date limited to the end of November/beginning of December.
Warren Smith have 24 Nov. in Cervinia and 8 December in Verbier
Snoworks hold it in Tignes on 9 December.
Fresh snow will allow me to improve fields I feel less qualified like unbashed pistes, moguls and of course going off piste. Which is crucial to me, on top of modifying my maneuvers of course.
No one holds a crystal ball obviously, but I imagine being so early in the season, Cervinia/Verbier will make it harder to deliver those subjects.
Any ideas?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@drporat, I am not quite sure what you're asking?
A good friend who is a very good skier (multiple seasons, instructor) had a very good Warren Smith experience, if that helps.
I think all three locations are equally likely to have fresh snow, I think Cervinia is the least likely to have interesting terrain, but that may be biased as I don't think Cervinia has interesting terrain to start with.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cervinia is south of the main Alpine ridge as rules go, resorts north of the ridge consistantly get more snow. Cervinia needs a lot of snow to cover the sharks also
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i was wondering which tuition to choose, and which location.
For Warren Smith, Cervinia is more financially approachable but I was afraid that in the end of November it is more prone to lack fresh snow under 3500 (above this altitude I start getting a bit dizzy)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@drporat, in which case... all of them are likely to be glacier based.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@drporat, I’m in a very similar situation this winter and I’ve nearly chosen Snoworks (not yet fully committed).
The main reasons for me to prefer Snoworks were: (1) Snoworks have a concurrent junior race camp for my son. While Warren Smith also run a concurrent junior course, the race focus at Snoworks seemed like a fun change of pace and possibly the start of a new sport passion for him. (2) WS only offer their somewhat more costly 6Max course for my dates. With the added cost of accommodation in Verbier, the overall costs were moderately but significantly different.
Haven’t never been to Verbier, Cervinia or Tignes I can’t make an educated comment on the locations.
In terms of instruction, I have been to a 1-day Warren Smith clinic at the Hemel snow dome. I really enjoyed the clinic and found it helpful, and I am certain the courses would be even better. Snoworks is unknown to
me but is very well regarded - including by Warren Smith himself. One difference for the courses that I’m considering (I think) is that Snoworks is half-day instruction while Warren Smith is full-day. Since I’m going with my kid, afternoon free skiing is more appealing.
If you’re going on your own, you’re much less constrained. In your shoes, if costs were the same, I think I’d have chosen Warren Smith in Verbier on the basis that it’s a cool place to go and there will be LOTS of very intense and technical instruction.
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@diaphon, good reasoning. I've observed the WS folks in Verbier and they do seem very good.
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| drporat wrote: |
No one holds a crystal ball obviously, but I imagine being so early in the season, Cervinia/Verbier will make it harder to deliver those subjects.
Any ideas? |
As you say, the likelihood of good early season snow is impossible to predict, and for skiing off-piste I'm not sure if Verbier or Cervinia or Tignes offer a significantly better chance of skiable off-piste terrain than the other two resorts. I think both ski schools will deliver what you are looking for, and both will endeavour to make the best of the snow conditions but beyond that you are in the hands of the snow gods I think.
At that time of year a single big snowstorm can be the difference between no off-piste and skiable off-piste, so going in early December rather than late November might increase your chances slightly. But overall, I've always had the view that when I ski that early in the season getting some off-piste in soft-snow is a bonus rather than an expectation.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@drporat, another course that you could add to your list to consider.
Alpine Coaching run a week long technical course 7-14 December at Hintertux.
http://alpinecoaching.co.uk/courses-1#courses
Alpine Coaching is headed up by Pete Gillespie.
I went on that one last year and got loads from it. Might be worth dropping Pete an email if you have any questions.
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Never done WS but have had good experiences with Snoworks although I did note negative reviews about one instructor who did not do much instructing.
Join the PreSeason bash as will be an economical way to do the week in Tignes with Snoworks. The year I did Tignes with Snoworks the meet up was 200 yards from the Taos.
Personally I would aim for end January before booking an off-piste course. Certainly at the PSB last December there was plenty of snow although limited skiing on the first two days as lifts closed etc. We did get some nice off-piste later in the week.
I hope to do another Snoworks Tignes course.... in March. Will be warming up in December.
WS and Snoworks will have you skiing and learning even if no off-piste available. Imagine Snoworks have the All-Terrain option that week.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I went solo with WS last November to Cervina and it did wonders for me - I'm going back this year  with others in tow.
I also wanted to improve off-piste, moguls and my ability to conquer the unbashed. However we only did a little of this on the course and it was mostly delivered on groomed pistes but it massively improved my technique. This carried over into my ability to go off piste, take on moguls and go anywhere.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@drporat, it's really early season for off piste, is there no way you can go later in the season? Worst case would be you'll be on piste all week, which IMHO isn't what you want to get out of the course. Yes you can do drills etc, but time off piste is also key to improving. You'll be very lucky to get fresh on a specific week, but at least later season you'd hope for a deeper snowpack that extends lower down to give you more experiences.
Having said all that I did my BASI L2 in Val D'Isere the 2 weeks before Xmas and there was zero snow in resort when I arrived, and about 4 foot when I left as it snowed virtually every day, so it could happen.
Espace Killy runs Critérium de la Première Neige ever year pre-Xmas for a reason that they are pretty snow sure..........
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Many thanks for the precious feedback, I would rather go to Verbier or Tignes in December than to Cervinia for the reasons you mentioned above.
Last year's PSB started with rain and continued beautifully with fresh snow, unbashed mogulled reds, whiteouts and then sunny pistes all the way to the glaciers. When we left, it snowed continuously and I envied the folks who came to the post-bash week.
It was better and more challenging than New Year in Verbier+Nandaz (I was on-piste and no ski roads).
Naturally I wanted to return this year and do some classes but I feel the need for a more intense and technical approach to my skiing.
Every week might bring something amazingly good or awfully bad but obviously it's too early for certain deep fresh snow.
Still early December is the only time frame I have. From January I am committed to ski trips with friends (mostly in Austria and the Birthday Bash) and I intend to go off piste by then. I love skiing in Austria but I wanted a different country for now (although Austria was perfect to me in the last Decembers), that's why I ruled out Alpine Coaching and SingleSports in Kaprun.
Snoworks in Tignes and WS in Verbier are in the same week but I was amazed by the mass of skiers with ABS bags that filled the Jumbo gondola in Verbier, sardine-style, to go down the ski roads etc. That's why the WS course attracts me more, in spite of its heavy total cost. I mean it's Verbier, even a mediocre Carbonara in the town was way more expensive than the perfect one they serve at the Taverne des Neiges in Val Claret...
But if I'll only ski where the good pasta is to be found, it will only take me to The Knife and Fork in ValTho, Folie Douce in Meribel and to the above mentioned next to the Cocorico.... There might be a pattern here... 
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm going to unfashionably suggest that you might enjoy an off-piste course more if you first consolidate your technique on-piste (moguls, steeps, ice etc.) - which is largely the route that we were forced to ski with straight skis in the olden days...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| oui4ski wrote: |
| I'm going to unfashionably suggest that you might enjoy an off-piste course more if you first consolidate your technique on-piste (moguls, steeps, ice etc.) - which is largely the route that we were forced to ski with straight skis in the olden days... |
You're correct of course.
This is the exact reason I am looking for a more thorough course (like WS or the all terrain of Snoworks that was mentioned here). I am ok with steeps and ice but I can surely improve my technique. My aim is to start going off piste, but not at the expense of the rest.
The dilemma still remains where to go for the 2nd week of December, a place that theoretically might benefit from fresh snow thus allowing me to experiment.
My gut feeling, based on my last Decembers plus reading is that Tignes might deliver better powder while Verbier might deliver better technical coaching.
I will definitely have more fun returning to the PSB and skiing again with everybody. But spending every morning away with Snoworks might ruin that fun...
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Poster: A snowHead
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@drporat, honestly just pick whatever takes your fancy, you can't predict which place will have fresh snow! Or see if these courses book up usually and if not book as late as possible based on the forecast!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kitenski wrote: |
| @drporat, honestly just pick whatever takes your fancy, you can't predict which place will have fresh snow! Or see if these courses book up usually and if not book as late as possible based on the forecast! |
That's it, I'm coming to the bash 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Very sensible - I would personally put the quality of coaching way ahead of searching for perfect conditions - a long time ago I spent a couple of weeks in mid December in Tignes skiing some of the sh*ttiest off-piste snow that the instructors could find each day. Staggeringly hard work, but unsurprisingly your technique improved massively!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@oui4ski, do you remember which ski school/instructors you used back then?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@drporat, I'm on the PSB and looking to do as many off-piste clinics as possible (need to get head and legs fully in the game before a touring course in Jan/feb) if you need to split some costs, could be interested as long as it doesn't drain the drinking fund the wrong way!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@drporat, Seen...
If it wasn't for Lord Shaftesbury, I could have the little SBPs cleaning chimneys to top up the drinking fund AND do Snoworx...
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| drporat wrote: |
| @oui4ski, do you remember which ski school/instructors you used back then? |
- it was BASI rather than a local ski school.
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