Ski season advice needed!

A snowHead

@Edd, of course there are many IT-related jobs in the Alps (or close to it - think Geneva, Lyon, Innsbruck and Salzburg, for example) but for the vast majority language is going to be a dealbreaker.

For example, this job just popped up on the radar: a 'snow reporter' in the Ziller Valley in Austria, with all meals, free accommodation, season pass and €520 a month 'pocket money'. You'd be obliged to ski twice a day (in all conditions), do snow reports, social media, newsletters, etc. But you'd have to speak German...

(For anyone that does speak the language and is looking for something, here's the link to the job:
http://snowreporter.hochfuegenski.com/ )

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Hi,

I’d strongly advise against taking a grad position and then leaving 3 months later. These programs are usually designed for 1-2 years to get you up to speed on how things operate in a corporate world and starting one and then stopping will look crap on your CV and alienate the company as well.

As a company we don’t take that many chances on people for remote working. We like them to have a few reviews first. So get started if you want to do that. Think outside the box - if you ski the USA or Canada or both then you can do support work and be 8 hours out of sync, so do early morning or evening tech support calls for people.

If you’re looking for seasonal work then you’d be better placed doing that seasonal work from June when you finish your finals until Dec when you head out as you will have 6 months of experience to transfer over.

Having done what you want myself - I waited until I was 30 and had been contracting 7 years and could afford to not work for 3 months and still pay all my bills.

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@telford_mike, hmmm, I skied 5 or 6 days out of 7 - for the full day - and I partied a lot...!

(Mind you I was 26-2 Cool

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@tatmanstours,

Thanks, this definitely seems like the general consensus.

I think now I simply need to commit to an approach, definitely suffering a case of paralysis by analysis here.

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@Dave of the Marmottes and @Oitbc,

Thanks for the advice, I think you're both absolutely right, alienating employers and appearing unable to commit to a job isn't a good look.

A friend suggested looking for summer internships, could this be a way to make a few contacts and potentially line up a role for returning at the end of the season?

I suspect the money is unlikely to fund a non-working season, but may be worth it for the work experience and gets around the problem of walking away from 1-2 year program a few months in.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@alpinetoffee,

Thanks for the reply,

After all it is free

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@abc,

Agreed, It could definitely be both a blessing and a curse.

However, if the main drawback is being paid to ski in crap conditions or when you don't feel like it, you've got a pretty good job.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snow reports

Bro, do not rush to work.

You have another 50 years and halfcentury ahead of slaving away in a tiny windowless cubicle to make your boss rich.

Shirk it. Don't work it.

Borrow or beg €10k from your olds.

Get a loan. Or creditcard.

Do anything you can to avoid work in a ski station.

Winter work totally sucks.

All work and no ski.

Get some cash and bum around for 5 months Cool

Ok so, some random thoughts from someone who has been in IT for 40 years and is just retiring.

Don't conflate skiing and work i.e. that you can advance your career in IT and ski in situ at the same time. A job is a job. 9-5 Mon-Fri at the very least. If an employer is investing in a new graduate, with an uncertain return, the expectations will be higher. THere may be a few people who can reside in the mountains and work remotely but they probably have a solid repertoire of skills that allow them to 'trade' those skills for not having to come into the office.

A lot of those who do remote working are contractors/consultants with a good CV i.e. a substantial list of tech skills, projects and employers. They tend to have 'pigeonhole' skills. By pigeonhole, I mean skill in a specific platform, cloud tech, language, UI, database etc that is simple to match-up ("We need an Azure architect with MSDynamics v7 to Cloud v8 migration skills"; "We need a Dev/Ops guy familiar with CloudFoundry and git in an AWS environment with a CloudFlare front-end .."). Most IT people start at this level. The problem with staying there is that 'pigeonhole' tech skills have a short shelf-life. This year, everyone needs A+B+C, next year, they'll need B+X+Y.

But the more interesting stuff for many people is much harder to pigeonhole - Solution Architecture, Transformation, Cloud Migration, Cybersecurity ... these aren't things you can do over the 'phone or email. In most cases you still need to be in a physical place speaking directly to people.

So the next option, as discussed again, is to get a menial job in a ski location and try and dovetail the menial job with skiing. Well, again, a job is a job and you can't do the job and ski at the same time (unless you want to be an instructor, I suppose, but that's a different discussion). Is this really going to work for you? What are the odds of finding something that pays well enough to have funds for recreation and time for skiing and doesn't consume time when you'd otherwise be on the slopes? It works for some people, certainly. But is it for you? only you can answer that.

So if you're looking to tread the usual path of an IT graduate (who has some useful experience, nevertheless) then really, you're looking at three, ski-biased strategies:

1. Get your first job in an organisation in an Alpine area (as has been discussed). Don't sell yourself as someone wanting to ski a lot - emphasise the international nature of the employer, that you'd like to become fluent in at least one other language, that you're free to work anywhere, really but would prefer X because (think of a reason); that you were attracted by the values and opportunities apparently on offer; You want to Exit Brexit for a few years ... whatever.

2. Get a job. Save some money. After a couple of years when your fist job change comes 'round, take a season off between jobs. Rent a studio somewhere. Ski. Party. The rest. Perhaps do a bit of self-training in some new tech whenever you are sober. No employer will mind this: it's a reasonable life strategy and would differentiate your CV. In 10 years time your 5 months skiing won't be a big deal in terms of gap. And you could even present it as a strategic 'sabbatical' where you diligently engaged in self-funded training and skills enhancement

3. Borrow the money from The Bank of Mum+Dad. Treat it as a formal loan, with interest (5% will be more than they'll get from any sort of cash savings, so they benefit). Do [2] then get a job and pay it back. (e.g. £12K@5% is £395/month over 3 years or £526/month over 2 years)

Personally, if I was your age again, I'd go for [3] or if that wasn't feasible, [2]. But hindsight is easy.

You know it makes sense.

+1 what @LaForet said. I retired after 40+ years in IT including a long spell as a contractor. [3] is the best strategy followed by [2] unless you have language skills. I didn't start skiing until I'd been in IT for 14 years and was married with kids so none of them worked for me.
As a UK employer of a remote worker I would probably still require you to be available during core hours most days! I had a friend with very specific networking skills who after gaining the skills and a reputation used to work on contract for 8 months of the year and ski the other 4 without pay.
Option [1] might work but you will still only get weekends plus your annual leave for skiing. Not that that's a bad deal Toofy Grin

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@LittleBullet,

I was probably being a bit optimistic.

I figure it's worth a shot, if only because I'll need to do something June-November either way, and I'd like to earn a bit some cash and hopefully make some industry contacts anyway.

Love the idea of the true ski bum approach, but realistically I think if I were to save enough money to do it I'd struggle to part with it when I could work and keep the money for a deposit on a flat or similar.

A snowHead

Question for anyone who might be reading:

Do you think employers are likely to perceive either Saving then ski bumming vs Working a season differently?

A snowHead

@Whitegold,

As much as I'd love to as I've just said above. I think having saved the money, I'd really struggle to part with it..

I appreciate the advice though, I'm really struggling with whether work a year, save, then do the season.

You might well be right, with (probably) decades of office work ahead of me, maybe I ought to consider really making the most of a season and saving up..

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@LaForet,

Thanks - I really appreciate the thoughtful response Smile

It does seem that specialized IT work in the Alps (remote, or otherwise) will be hard to come by and isn't really as feasible option.

Given that, I guess I need to weigh up the 3 options you suggested in my head:

1) As I said in the initial post I think there's probably menial jobs in the alps that are pretty bearable, with reasonable hours to ski and enough money to sustain yourself - albeit without much beer money.
2) As I've said just above, I think ski bumming is the dream, however I think once earned, the money might be hard to part with.
3) I'm not keen on the idea of borrowing the money and would rather avoid it if at all possible - though this does seem like a popular option among those of you with a more experience/hindsight than myself...

As suggested by others in the past, a graduate job somewhere like Geneva could be a decent compromise, if I were to gain the language skills to make this an option.

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@tarrantd,

Thank you for the reply Smile

It's really helpful to get the input of people with a bit more perspective (experience in the real world) than myself.

As I said above, left to my own devices I think I'd completely rule out option 3 of using savings / borrowed money, but it does seem popular around here..

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@edd [Do you think employers are likely to perceive either Saving then ski bumming vs Working a season differently?]

Employers in IT, especially if they're looking for 'pigeon hole' staff, just want someone who 1.Satisfies the technical profile, 2.Has experience, and 3.Will be reliable and fit in. In the current market, they'll probably settle for (1) - the project is running, they need the person, you fit the profile, interview goes OK - fine, you get the job. Yes, that's a simplification and there are other factors, but at it's core, the process is dominated by (1). For younger, less experienced candidates, the hidden factor may well be how little can they get away with paying you and for how long, before you get disgruntled and leave, or are poached. There may also be a difficult decision for them in terms of providing you with training and experience and then have you jump ship just as you become productive. Whether you spent a Gap Season in a resort or have just come off a 5 month sabbatical is likely to be well down the list, if a factor at all.

Your big challenge as a graduate is getting that first job. Once you're in a job, you're on your way - you get experience, skills, and importantly an idea of where you want to go. Importantly, you also get a context - the job you're doing, the organisation you work for, the team you're in, your strengths and weaknesses. That context makes going for the next job easier as you have a much clearer idea of what you're looking for. So that's the upside of the strategy of working for a couple of years, banking your £12K or so, and taking 5 months out between jobs. All the basics of your career part are resolved and you'll have a specific idea of the next role. ANd you can party and the rest without having to work a menial job. Downsides are, as mentioned, you may want to do other things with your savings and a job may materialise that you don't want to reject - thus missing the skibreak for another 2 years, possibly forever.

I could go through the other options pros and cons but really, you sound intelligent enough to be able to do that for yourself. Really, there's no 'ideal' solution. Like the career on which you're embarking, it's going to be a series of options, uncertainties and risks. But that's the fun, in the end. Good luck ...

Caveat: Having just given you a load of advice, first thing I'd say is don't necessarily weight advice on an Internet Forum too heavily

I don't know you, or your circumstances, or your history etc. This sort of guidance was hard enough to give to my students when I was a Lecturer, and when I was a mentor in a multinational IT business, and had people's full personnel profile to hand at a face-to-face session. In the end, it's up to you and only you can make the decision.

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@edd In part I agree with @LaForet. If you get a good degree and want to work for one of the big consultancies then I can't advise working for 2 years on a graduate scheme and then leaving to go ski bumming or gap season. As the next potential employer I'd be worried that you might do the same again. To some extent it depends on the type of career you see for yourself

If you do it before joining a graduate scheme then I don't think either is bad from a potential employer's point of view.

If you want to be a ski bum then why not look at some of the remote testing opportunities out there. Often no experience necessary, can be done whenever it's convenient to you (within certain limits) and provides some further skills related to IT.

In the end it has to be your decision but do the season before life takes hold (partners, house buying, fast cars etc.)

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@LaForet & @tarrantd,

It's reassuring to hear that neither approach is likely to harm my future prospects too much.

After all it is free

@Edd, maybe have a look at a mini-bus driving job with one of the many airport shuttle services for ski resorts. 95% of their work is on Saturdays and/or Sundays. I’m not sure what the drivers do the rest of the time; but a some I have spoken to over the years got a lot of skiing in.

I think you may need some sort of driving qualification beyond a standard driving license; but I don’t think it’s much.

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@Edd yes that's the type of testing. I have a couple of friends who work in test departments and they are always saying they could leave work and do remote testing if it paid a bit more. You could start before you leave the UK to get a reputation and learn the pros and cons to see if it will work for you.

Make the most of the chance to do a season now and above all have fun because it may be followed by up to 50 years of work and possibly no chance to do it again Sad

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Plan B would be to get a job within easy access of the Alps where you can ski every weekend. Cool

Plan C would be to get a job in Scotland, (no language or permits required) but the skiing would be a lot less reliable and rather more hardcore Laughing

Plan D would be the far north of England for Scottish weekends or anything local on offer. Toofy Grin

Plan E would be to get a really well paid job somewhere accessible to Gatwick for weekend skiing in the Alps Shocked

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I'm a developer with about 15 years experience, started skiing in 2012, so didn't have to face this question so soon after graduation. If you want to think longer term, my solutions so far to the 'not enough skiing time' question have been
1. Leave permanent job with intent to go contracting, ski for a few months before finding a contract
2. Leave contract for the winter, go skiing, come back to same client (through chance/networking on return rather than a prior arrangement)
3. Move to Melbourne Australia, ski weekends July-Sept, take long holiday in Europe/Japan in northern hemisphere winter
4. Move to San Francisco, ski weekends at Tahoe, ski Europe at Xmas when visiting family

Things still on the list:
5. Scotland?
6. Geneva/Zurich/Innsbruck/Munich/Lyon/Salzburg/Vienna?
7. Remote

I have dual UK/Aus citizenship which made 3 and 4 easier.

#3 was pretty cool for making skiing feel like a year round thing and Australian skiing is better than I expected (in a good year - it's very unreliable afaik). #4 has probably provided the best experience in terms of the quality of skiing (last season was terrific) and length of season as the US tends to kick off a little earlier than the alps. Seattle or Denver would have been better choices for access to mountains and easier weekend / daytrips but the SF Bay area has more job opportunities.

For a UK passport holder, afaik most 'big N' companies will support internal moves after a year or so, so getting a job in a European office and transferring might be the best way if interested in pursuing something similar to #4

@driz, how did you get the visa for your stint in San Fran, did you get a company to sponsor you?

You know it makes sense.

@LittleBullet, Australian passport holders are eligible for an 'E3' visa, which effectively just requires a job offer and a degree (unlike the H1B with its lottery system). Some of the big US companies hold hiring events in Australia because of this, with the intent to relocate people who are successful - and yeah, they sponsored me.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@driz, Amazing, thank you interesting. I knew they had the J1 12 month work and travel visa, but never heard of E3.

Help!!

Ski season advice needed!

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