 Poster: A snowHead
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| photuris wrote: |
- Lech looks amazing, but I haven't been able to find any accommodations in our budget. Is there a lower down resort with easy access that I should be looking at instead?
- What about Ischgl? It looks really cool.
I don't ski off-piste, but the rest of the group does like to play off trail. We might hire a guide for a day or two. |
For the last 5 years or so I spent a week a year in a great little hotel in Lech - the Fernsicht. The owner of the hotel (Marion) decided to convert it into self-catering apartments and they'll be ready for next season. I don't know how much they'll cost but they look great - much bigger and more luxurious than tiny studios that are popular in France. Website for the apartments is https://www.fernsichtapartments-lech.at/de and currently it's only in German. Marion speaks excellent English so it's worth emailing her if you want some info on prices and availability.
Lech would be fine for self-catering, there's two supermarkets and a couple of reasonable pizza places for eating out. Marion's apartments will have a breakfast delivery service so you can get fresh bread etc every morning if you want.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Coming from the US, my priorities would be to make the most of the difference in Euro vs USA skiing:
- very large interconnected resorts: France, Italy and Austria have several of these - 3V, Espace Killy, Portes du Soleil (not my favourite area though, others will disagree), Via Lattea, Dolomiti Superski, Arlberg, etc
- different vibe: something like the Dolomites gives you Italy + Austria culture (incl. Italian food!!) and amazing scenery, Via Lattea gives you France + Italy, from Ischgl you can ski into Switzerland and back. Austria rules on apres-ski.
- charm: lots of charming resorts in all these countries - least so in the high French resorts though.
Have you looked at this site for Lech? Usually has a lot of stuff that booking.com doesn't. You won't get bored in the Arlberg, that's for sure!
https://www.lechzuers.com/en/startseite/ . There should be a similar one for Ischgl (which has probably the most modern lift system of all on the Austria side, and is still pretty big though half the mega areas above).
These days I find Switzerland too expensive so I go there less, I may be wrong though. Zermatt would for sure score high on all criteria above, but cheap it ain't.
Worth looking at an extra flight from Paris to Zurich (and then train to the Arlberg, or maybe train all the way, though there may be too many interchanges), or flight to Innsbruck / Venice / Verona + transfer for the Dolomites. Anyway, from Paris to the large French resorts you would need a long (though fast) train ride.
Re transfer: taxis are expensive, if you take one from an airport 150 miles away. Bus transfers would be cheaper of course. Some of the resorts have a mainline train station: St Anton in Arlberg, Les Arcs in Paradiski (well to be precise there's one in Bourg St Maurice and then a funicular to the resort), Sauze d'Oulx in Via Lattea.
Enjoy!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ischgl can get rowdy, but there are tons to do for families. They got a great public pool, and how about the 9 km (6 miles) toboggan run, where you cross a couple of reds on the way. The dining on the mountain is brilliant, and there are something for all levels of economy. The ski area isn’t suited for first timers, but apart from them, it caters to everybody. You can ski down to The swiss Village of Samnaum, and have a great lunch, and pick up some taxfree stuff on they way. This season i will spend my week number 20 and 21 in Ischgl, so it is for sure my favourite place to go.
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By the way - look at Fimba hotel for good priced luxury in a great location just above a lift, and with no noise around.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Charm and epic skiing without breaking the bank to me speaks Italy. The Dolomites comes to the front of that thought process. Epic scenery to be skiing in at least.
To get there from Paris maybe a bit more involved than some of the mountains already mentioned above. Though is it that much worse than Austria?
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Dolomites would also be my choice.
Maybe have an overnight stay at Venice as well. That would make a pretty epic European trip from the US.
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Plenty of skiing for a week in Wengen on the Jungfrau pass as you also have First at Grindelwald and Muerren as well and each justify a day, some would argue more for Muerren. I know nothing on apartment rental prices in Wengen but it has a minimarket and the ski pass (used as I haven't been there for a few years) to allow you down to Interlaken Ost on the train and there are plenty of supermarkets in Interlaken. Although Switzerland is dear there are a few grab and go places on the mountain for burger/pizza etc and at some stations. The other thing to do would be to stay in Interlaken or somewhere like Wilderswil or Lauterbrunnen where lodging is likely to be cheaper and commute each day but more of a hassle and time waste. As for trains you would need to consult something like Rome to Rio or the Deutsche Bahn website but I suspect it would be about a day from Paris (6-8 hours) with four changes to get you to Wengen itself and two of those changes would be at Interlaken Ost and Lauterbrunnen for the last stages of the journey on the narrower gauge railways - an interesting and scenic journey in itself. Nearly talked myself into returning there now the dreadfully slow Mannlichen gondola has nearly been replaced.
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| yuppie wrote: |
Dolomites would also be my choice.
Maybe have an overnight stay at Venice as well. That would make a pretty epic European trip from the US. |
I think this would be well worth considering - I'd say spend at least couple of nights in Venice though, it's a great time to go there before the crowds and cruise ships overwhelm the city. For something a bit different you can get a train from Paris straight onto the island and it's a short coach or boat ride to the airport to pick up a transfer to the Dolomites. There is info elsewhere on this forum about the transfers I think. A bit more planning needed than getting to the French Alps from Paris perhaps, but well worth it imo. Also with the Dolomites you're getting a taste of Austria as well as Italy, certainly with the cuisine.
Good luck, whatever you do.
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+1 for the Dolomites.
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which resort in the Dolomites should I be looking at specifically?
I think I need to create an excel chart to keep track of all the options! I'm so overwhelmed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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For the Dolomites I would look at resorts that link in well with other ski areas. Anything on the Sella Ronda would be great. Arabba, Corvara, Colfosco and La Villa might be best especially as from those towns it is easy to get to runs like the Hidden Valley and the Marmolade.
Selva and Canazei are also excellent bases for the Sella Ronda and for areas that are far less skied then other places around the Sella Ronda.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| photuris wrote: |
which resort in the Dolomites should I be looking at specifically?
I think I need to create an excel chart to keep track of all the options! I'm so overwhelmed. |
Quite a bit of info on the Dolomites on this forum - it's a popular area among Snowheads. I've only been to the Alta Badia part (Corvara, San Cassiano, La Villa etc) which is great but there are other people on the forum who have more experience of the wider area. Arabba is very well known to Snowheads as they organise a 'bash' there.
The Dolomiti Superski area is huge - you can only cover a fraction of it in two weeks. I would definitely recommend somewhere with easy access to the Sella Ronda circuit. The Marmolada should be on your list too - awesome on a sunny day.
If you are big on off-piste skiing then the Dolomites maybe aren't the best for that, but for fantastic scenery, piste skiing, attractive towns and villages and good food then you can't go wrong.
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@photuris, I think your choice depends on your relative priorities.
For overall alpine experience, scenery, quality food, reasonable value with lots and lots of skiing that is very interesting without, IMO, ever being especially scary, then the Dolomites is brilliant.
If lively apres ski, still with great skiing, is more important, then St Anton, Ischgl, Saalbach-Hinterglemm start floating to the top. Bit scarier skiing than Dolomites, especially St Anton, which can get gnarly and is known as good for off piste too.
If it’s mostly about challenging skiing, that has plenty potential to scare the more adventurous, then places like Espace Killy, Zermatt, 3V, St Anton are good. The overall ambience doesn’t come close to the Dolomites but the skiing is fantastic. Val D is also a lively base for nightlife, as is Meribel in 3V.
I don’t think anyone has mentioned Chamonix valley yet. It has been popular with N. Americans in my experience. A large, proper mountain town. Easy to get to from Paris but inconvenient to get around without a vehicle. Skiing from quite easy up to OMG help. Spectacular scenery. Can easily be linked with days out in attractive ski towns like Megeve, St Gervais. Chamonix is a bit grungy.
Everywhere mentioned above has lots for early intermediates, confident intermediates and high mileage cruisers.
All the above entirely my subjective views, with sweeping generalisations and could be torn to shreds under cross-examination.
Coming back to the Dolomites, then Arabba, Corvara, La Villa would be good, relatively quiet bases, which nevertheless have a few restaurants and bars.
Selva if you wanted somewhere a bit livelier with good Sella Ronda connections. Personally I dislike the main road that passes straight through the middle, but Selva has advantages. Places like San Cassiano and Colfosco are beautiful but possibly a bit quiet for your family?
Canazei and that part of the Sella Ronda seems to offer good value accommodation. I think the compromise is that it more often involves longer walk or bus ride to ski lifts. Nevertheless the skiing is great and links to Sella Ronda good.
Happy spreadsheeting.
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You know it makes sense.
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@PeakyB, supermarkets in resort are expensive, but I wouldn’t say sky high. If you can take a few of the basics with you (rice etc) then I really don’t think it’s too much more to cater for yourself for a week compared to the UK.
I like La Plagne as a resort but Centre/Bellecote are about as far away from charm as you can get. Belle Plagne or Les Coches are slightly nicer options and have self catering options.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@SnoodlesMcFlude, I must have been visiting the wrong Sherpas and Carrefours in Val D, Courchevel, etc.
Mind you I do live in a place where anything more than £3 for a pint of beer prompts a response of ‘how much?!’
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Poster: A snowHead
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Do you have specific must have's in your criteria?
If you are looking for chocolate box Alps Charm, then that is severely going to limit option.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@PeakyB, I'm not denying that it's a fair bit more expensive, I just think that it gets blown out of proportion considering what people actually spend on food for a week...or maybe that's just me. It may be that in Val D and Courchevel you're visiting the wrong resort rather than the wrong shop 
I do think it depends on what you're looking to buy as well, I tend to adjust what I'm eating to suit what's better priced.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@SnoodlesMcFlude, I’ve never chosen my skiing destinations based on the average price of a basket of food and won’t be starting to anytime soon 
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or even
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@photuris, The Dolomites are definately worth looking at. As I said earlier I don't know about charm, but they are staggeringly beautiful (I'm off there tomorrow for 2 weeks rock climbing). The skiing is very good if you like very smoothly bashed pistes and I know many people who do. Most of the accomodation is in half board hotels, which may exceed your budget but there are some self catering apartments. Is the $2000 for accomodation for the whole family?
One thing that you may find confusing is the language. Most of the skiing is in the Sud Tirol which is predominately German speaking, however there has been an intensive Italinaisation recently (well since the 1920s) and the German names for towns are no longer appearing on road signs, but still appear on maps. So for example Wolkenstein is signposted as Selva val Gardina (be careful here as there is another village called Selva di Cadore) on Road signs. I won't even mention Ladin
It is definately worth researching
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How many SnowHeads parlez in Ladin on a Dolomites Bash? Or even in Italian?
I found the bits of Ladin culture I encountered and read about fascinating when I’ve been there. All part of the tapestry of European diversity and history. Also reflects that Italy as one country is only roughly 150 years old, I think.
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@PeakyB, eng_ch could....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
What do you expect to do with breakfast and dinner? Cooking in self-catering apartments?
I typically found half-board a better value than eating out individual meals.
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@abc, good point about lodging with food included often being better value than dining out.
UK managed catered chalets and chalethotels can be very good, especially with two hungry children to feed
Self catering may be cheaper but food prices in mountain village shops and mini supermarkets are sky high in my experience.
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Much depends on the resort. There are some resorts (I know of one , where families just love eating out and regard it as part of the enjoyment of the holiday. The prices are reasonable, and you can vary it between a good pub meal for less than 10 euros, or a restaurant meal for between 10 and 18 euros. Obviously I'm talking about main courses (which in our experience are ample, especially after a good lunch on the mountain). There are also good take-aways to save anyone having to cook, when eating in. The saving per head for self-catering over a hotel or catered chalet would almost certainly be enough to cover dining out every evening.
In Austrian village ski resorts, the prices of supermarkets (Spar, Billa, Mpreis, etc) are no higher than anywhere else. They are part of supermarket chains and therefore have standard prices. For many things the prices are cheaper than say Tescos or Sainsburys, and the very drinkable wine we normally buy is the equivalent of £1.35 per bottle (EUR 1.99 per litre).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@tatmanstours, interesting re supermarkets. My understanding in France is that at least some are franchised with latitude to modify prices. In any case, in the Chamonix valley, there can be a 200% difference on some products between different branches of the same “chain”. At least, for values of Serrano ham.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 1-08-19 15:58; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@JohnE The budget is for self-catering lodging, but we can go higher if we get half-board of b&b. We do like to explore different restaurants so I think b&b would be best.
I prefer smooth long wide open blues, but of course the boys want action and would prefer steep blues and reds (maybe blacks). I do plan to spend every weekend in December - March skiing at our local resort and working with an instructor to improve my confidence so that I can keep up with the family on reds.
What are the Dolomites likely to look like in March? Will it look like a winter wonderland or will it look half-melted?
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@tatmanstours, where might that be then? Sounds good.
Also, accepting the usual range in quality and menu options, roughly how much would a good lunch on the mountain cost there? Let’s say 2 courses and a couple of drinks, for example?
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You know it makes sense.
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@PeakyB, Saalbach
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@PeakyB, we were in Corvara last summer. Very disappointing uninspiring village and mountains completely ruined by skiing infrastructure. Never seen it so bad.
Selva, Ortisei: mass tourism, kitsch....
So much for ‘overal ambience of the Dolomites’....
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Langerzug, probably best to go to mountains in summer that aren’t used for snow sports in the winter then.
There must be a few left.
I agree that lift infrastructure and snowmaking equipment is a scar on the landscape.
However the OP is interested in a winter trip.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
@PeakyB, we were in Corvara last summer. Very disappointing uninspiring village and mountains completely ruined by skiing infrastructure.
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Some places do have excessive ski infrstructure, but most of the area is free of it. IMHO what spoils the summer is the very busy mountain passess with lots of crawling camper vans. In some areas the first world war really messed the area up as well with blowing the tops off mountains and digging trenches everywhere.
I'm not sure how a village can be inspiring. They are just places to stay. Surely the best villages inspire you to get out of them  . Mind you I do like the geletina in Selva.
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What are the Dolomites likely to look like in March? Will it look like a winter wonderland or will it look half-melted?
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I went in late March a couple years ago when there had been a lot of snow. The roads were basically canyons with 3m snow banks on either side. There was even snow in the towns. There could be lots of snow, or there could be little. There is no guarentee.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It should look something like this in early March but past performance is no guarantee for the future.,,
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| Langerzug wrote: |
@PeakyB, we were in Corvara last summer. Very disappointing uninspiring village and mountains completely ruined by skiing infrastructure. Never seen it so bad.
Selva, Ortisei: mass tourism, kitsch....
So much for ‘overal ambience of the Dolomites’.... |
Crikey and it’s a World Heritage Site.
You really wouldn’t like Val Thorens 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wengen and Murren are amazing and look amazing, but expensive. Perfect Swiss alpine experience.
So is Verbier and the 4 valleys side, but I am not sure it makes much sense to go there from Paris.
To me it seems easier to rent a car/take a train to a french ski resort, and in the future fly to Venice for a combined experience, the lagoon and the mountains.
Been to Courchevel 1650 this March, on a cheap AirBnB. Perfectly connected with very good on piste skiing but dining in pubs/restaurants in the resort/on the mountains was equally expensive in all resorts. We came with a car and bought a weekly supply in a huge supermarket right before getting to the mountains, cooking inside almost every evening.
Espace Killy slightly cheaper for eating out, more challenging for skiing thus more fun. Again, buy food before getting there and less dine out, to save money in Tignes/Val D'Isere.
You can take a train to Bourg St Maurice and take the bus/funnicular for Les Arcs. 1950 looks like a fairytale and has very good pistes, or choose 1800 with cheaper self catering (Belmont) but dull dull dull. Ski area very wide and satisfying.
In the south, harder to reach, Les 2 Alpes is way cheaper and close to more interesting resorts.
FWIW, a good resort I discovered 2 years ago was Risoul. https://www.skiresort.info/ski-resort/varsrisoul-la-foret-blanche/
Cheap, quiet, good looking and with a nice family atmosphere. We hardly met anyone not speaking French.
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@Peter S, in Val Thorens even the mountains themselves are poor
@abc, never been to Wengen, but would actually expect it to be reasonably intact regarding tourism-infrastructure
On a more general note: why are people here suggesting Lech when OP is saying he/she is worrying about budget?
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@Langerzug, possibly to meet the OPs list of requirements....
'Our list is pretty simple I think
- snowsure
- lots of terrain to keep us busy for a week
- other things to do (like swimming)
- charming'
To tick every one of those boxes, in early March, yet still be inexpensive, and also offer convenient travel, could be challenging.
Likely that something will have to give?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Langerzug, OP is also talking about eating out a lot and possibility of a few days guiding, so very much mixed messages on the budget front
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It’s not complicated. The OP wants the list satisfied. Or close to it.
But nobody wants to pay more than necessary. So it’s really just “the cheapest that still satisfies the requirements”.
Of course the OP could drop one of the requirements. But it doesn’t make sense to settle for an inferior experience after all the time and hassle of flying across the pond.
She’ll end up raising he budget ceiling to match. It’s the typical American way of doing things anyway.
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FAQ
