Someone lent me some American bought cables once, right size for the car I had then. They were hopeless, mind you on a RWD Merc with very low profile tyres
Complete opposite of my experience on FWD rentals in N America. Got me up and down any road that has been open. With the added benefit of not clattering like a tomcat fight in the bins on blacktop stretches. In fact the usual problem is that the hum is so moderate on tarmac you are tempted to increase speed to that at which bits start to ping off (been there done that - try to keep it under 45mph now!)
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Interesting, before reading this thread I'd never heard of winter "cables" (as opposed to winter chains which I'm well aware of). Are they a US only thing, a quick internet search doesn't seem to show any UK based retailers of snow "cables"?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@SHAP, please let me know what they say, my brother is flying into Lyon at Christmas. Thank you
..I'd never heard of winter "cables" .. Are they a US only thing .."?
They are one of those inventions that seem like a good idea - in theory. I think yes, originating in the USA. Basically, they're cable ties that you loop around the tyre. Usually somewhat tougher than domestic cable ties. Sounds like a neat idea but unfortunately, the feedback I've seen is, on the whole, negative. As with most forums, a few people swear by them while the majority seem to swear at them.
..I'd never heard of winter "cables" .. Are they a US only thing .."?
They are one of those inventions that seem like a good idea - in theory. I think yes, originating in the USA. Basically, they're cable ties that you loop around the tyre. Usually somewhat tougher than domestic cable ties. Sounds like a neat idea but unfortunately, the feedback I've seen is, on the whole, negative. As with most forums, a few people swear by them while the majority seem to swear at them.
Nope
Definitely not that
This. Although they should also be used with rubber tensioners not shown in this video
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Dave of the Marmottes, thanks.
After all it is free
After all it is free
In fairness that is an extraordinary simple demo of the ease of getting them on. In practice you are in muck and slush, you never the wheels rotated to the exact spots etc. But no more than 10 mins on, 5 with practice and 3 mins off is quite quick.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Very easy to put on/take off. When I got mine £13 from Tesco!!
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Well, I have to own up to a misunderstanding, if the video is showing what Alastiar was referring to (continuous chain assembly, but made from thin metal). I thought he was looking at the plastic/composite ties, as I described. Yet another variant for us to discuss ....
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@LaForet, I wasn't looking at anything in particular, just asking about them, as I didn't know what winter "cables" were!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Alistair Ah right, well, cue my by-now-oft-posted chart on the subject of winter automobile footwear, which tries to show roughly what sort of technology is best suited to what sort of conditions, ranging from warm and dry on the left to slush, snow and ice on the right:
It's only meant to be very approximate. But because there's a lot of overlap, the whole area tends to lead to much disagreement on forum discussions. My view is that it's horses for courses, and very dependent on how you use your car e.g. if you only drive in the UK and mostly go to work on the train, you're probably just after some sort of 'insurance' in case you're caught somewhere in a rare snowfall (e.g. the Michelin EasyGrips mentioned, or perhaps socks). If you have a a 340 BHP RWD performance car you use for work all over the UK and drive down to the Alps every year, then you probably want winter tyres and robust and easy-to-fit (i.e. more expensive) chains. It all depends.
One point I would make is that if you're going into a likely snowy area (i.e. The Alps in winter) then you will always need to carry chains, as contingency against much more likely extreme snow conditions. After that, it's a matter of trying to defer fitting chains for as long as possible i.e. as conditions worsen, with summer tyres on, you'll have to fit chains sooner than someone with good all-seasons on. And with good all-seasons on, you'll have to fit chains sooner then someone with winters on. But even with winters, there are still situations when you'd need chains.
Then there's also the complication for RWD owners that even with the best chains on your rear wheels, if your front wheels are shod with summer tyres then you are going to have a steering (or rather, continuing-in-a-straight-line) problem in snow. This might force you to the winter tyre option when a FWD owner can still steer with their chains-on-summers front wheels.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
LaForet wrote:
Then there's also the complication for RWD owners that even with the best chains on your rear wheels, if your front wheels are shod with summer tyres then you are going to have a steering (or rather, continuing-in-a-straight-line) problem in snow. This might force you to the winter tyre option when a FWD owner can still steer with their chains-on-summers front wheels.
Don't forget when going downhill (rare in the Alps I know ) you have no brakes either so slowing for the hairpin you can't steer round maybe a problem too.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@LaForet, can you actually get "summers" in the UK or does this apply to places with much higher temperatures?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@johnE In the UK almost all new cars are fitted with summer tyres, although recently, some mainstream, non-performance SUVs have started to be fitted with all-seasons out of the factory. Hence a lot of forum discussions centre around chains and socks - someone who only drives down to the Alps once a year and who lives in the south of the UK can live with summer tyres all year-round at home and doesn't really want to spend £400-£500 on a set of winters just for 1-2 weeks, as they see it. Which is understandable. In recent years, though, more people have taken to having a set of winter tyres, because of a combination of (a) winters are more resistant to aquaplaning (b) they have had problems with snow from time to time and (c) they drive down to the Alps each year. This has in part been led by owners of performance cars, like me, for whom the better traction and resistance to aquaplaning (vs summers) is amplified (especially if it's RWD) even if they don't leave the UK. In the last 5 years, Michelin in particular has been promoting all-seasons strongly, and with the genuine advance in tyres like their CrossClimate, has found a broader market. Especially among SUV/4x4 owners who want good winter handling because they are more often on wet fields, farm tracks and Alpine holidays. Audi and BMW also picked up on this market about 5 years ago, with garages offering storage of unused wheel/tyre sets and discounted winter wheel+tyre packages. I think the UK is now in the situation where for non-performance cars, manufacturers should be fitting quality all-seasons by default out of the factory.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Never got the argument that " a set of winter tyres is a huge investment". Given that each set of tyres now lasts twice as long (real time) since it is only on the car for half the time, the only investment is the switch-over costs.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@LaForet, I've never seen "summer" tyres advertised. I assume they are designed for areas with high ie upto 40 degrees temps. The tyres fiited to new cars are designed for the area they are sold. For the same reason winter tyres are not fitted as standard.
We run both our cars with a set of winter and summer tyres, here in the south of England. no changeover costs on by car as David does those and rims and tyres are stored in the garage loft. His Mitsubishi does go to the garage for changeover as complicated rims. Chains for both cars although mine rarely goes overseas now. And last winter we used the chains on many days in Austria as the four wheel drive and winter tyres would not have been sufficiently. D very pleased to finally get some use out of the rather expensive chains.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@johnE, in the UK/FR/CH, what is usually fitted is commonly referred to as "summers".
In CH it's not abnormal (iirc) for a new car to have the option to be delivered with both summers and winters - as often the garage supplying will do the out of season storage and changeovers (summer to winter we would always have a mini winterisation service). Services often timed to coincide with tyre switching.
Althoughm having just typed that, it's entirely also possible that we had that option as we bought the cars in November...
...can you actually get "summers" in the UK or does this apply to places with much higher temperatures?
I'd never come across the term until just now in either UK or BC:
It's not used in my own car manual.
Kwick-fit have a couple of blog posts promoting winter tyres, but they don't categorize tyres as "summer" in their online catalog. They're sold as "tyres".
National have categories for all-seasons, run-flat and winter tyres, but do not list "summer tyres" as a category.
I don't think it's very helpful here. If you live somewhere like Finland, you have to have two sets of wheels. One set for summer and one for winter. Hence talking about your "winter wheels" makes sense. The UK's nothing like that.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
philwig wrote:
The UK's nothing like that.
The UK can be like that. I have two sets of wheels, the original set of alloys with slicks, and a set of steel rims with narrower winter tyres.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
I have two sets of wheels, the original set of alloys with slicks
slicks are illegal for use on a public road
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@philwig There are three principal tyre of car tyres. 1. Winters, 2. All-seasons and 3. Summers.
Summer tyres are designed to work best in warmer temperatures of around +7°C upwards and use compounds which tolerate higher temperatures well, but below 7°C harden to the extent that they suffer significant loss of traction, even without damp or snow on the surface. Most cars for the UK market get fitted with such tyres from the factory as they best cover the conditions that a UK car is most likely to encounter.
Winter tyres use different compounds which heat up faster and work best at temperatures below 7°C and significantly better than summers at sub-zero temps. They also have a much higher sipe density. Sipes are the very small grooves that segment the tread and are designed to make it squirm much more and thus heat up more than non-siped summers. In addition, winters will have a higher proportion of the contact area given over to drainage grooves, which are also likely to be angled between 20°-40° from the direction of travel. This to increase resistance to aquaplaning. On many models, the manufacturer will also certify only a narrower wheel size for winter tyres (take a look in the Owners Manual) e.g. a summer wheel ex-factory may be 8J (8") but the winter wheel will be 7.5J or 7J (7½" or 7") - this partly to accommodate chains and partly to increase resistance to aquaplaning.
All-seasons are a compromise between these two in terms of compound chemistry and tread design. They will sacrifice some of the winter performance of an all-out winter and some of the summer performance of an all-out summer in return for being better than a winter in high summer and summer in mid-winter.
So, if a car tyre isn't a winter tyre and it isn't an all-season tyre then it's a summer tyre. Because it's compound chemistry and tread design is optimised for summer conditions.
Manufacturers and dealers don't use the term 'summer tyres' when you buy the car in the UK because, I suspect, there's no point in complicating the sale. Why start calling standard tyres summer tyres? Even if that's what they are. If you want to test this out, then ask a UK car sales rep about the option for an additional set of winter wheels and tyres. If they think there's a chance at some nice after-sales revenues, you'll often find them quite knowledgeable about the difference between the 'standard summer tyres' and the winters that you now might be buying from them.
People will often take the view that surely, driving the the UK, you don't often get below the nominal 7°C temperature at which winter tyres start to have an edge over summers? Surprisingly, if you look at Met.Office average temperatures, the UK average does go below this quite often in the winter e.g. 2015-19 min-max averages were Jan: 4.2°-5.7°C, Feb: 3.1°-6.9°C so yes, not that far below 7°C, but remember these are averages and will be lower in the north and lower for commuting times.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 2-06-19 23:45; edited 4 times in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
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@rjs, aren’t slicks for track racing?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Actually, @LaForet, the only all seasons I’ve had a look at are somewhat schizo being one half side “summer” and one half side”winter”...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Pamski, I have normal summer tyres, they may as well be slicks for the grip they provide in the winter.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@rjs, ah,I think that is why we run our cars on winter and summer tyres.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Just returning to the thread title...
Is it going to be...
Winter tyres compulsory; or
Winter tyres or chains to be compulsory?
I can't seem to see a definitive answer anywhere!
Thanks
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Just slightly off this thread but related to Winter Tryes....
Can anyone give me the answer to storing Winter Tyres once taken off the car on Steel Wheels..
I currently have them stored in a garage and have dropped the pressure slightly from the driving pressure, they are stored horizontally out of sunlight.
Is this the correct procedure?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Simon94 Yes, my dealer recommended I reduce the pressures a bit for storage. Also, that the aim is to avoid deformation i.e. if they're stacked, rotate the order from time to time, so the pressure on the lower wheels is equalised over the period of storage. I used to store my wheels upright on the floor, in a line along the garage wall, and then rotate them a few inches regularly so they didn't deform. Now, I store them on the garage wall:
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) you have no brakes either so slowing for the hairpin you can't steer round maybe a problem too.
