To Buy Or not To Buy

A snowHead

As a latecomer to skiing (now in my 50's) I have thought I would like to buy a home that will eventually become a permanent residence. Meanwhile I would look to be using it for holidays preferably in the winter and the summer.

I just don't have the time or ability to personally inspect all the possibilities so I thought I'd ask here for information that would help me narrow down options given that primarily I'm after something that will allow me to eventually retire near the slopes.

Cost is an obvious issue being only too aware how premium priced property can be when it is near skiing areas.
To try to offset that I thought within a 30 to 40min drive radius would be fine for slope access.
Skiing resources is another issue, that is how much skiing is there in the driveable radius. This is pretty subjective I know as a young hotrodder would have a different opinion on what he wanted as opposed to what I want. Mainly I like to think I could develop into reasonably difficult intermediate areas, but I doubt I'll go much beyond that as by nature I'm not much for adrenaline rushes LOL

Another issue is some countries and resorts are clearly more expensive to ski than others so I have to account for that.

I've been looking at the French Pyrenees for a variety of reasons ,but I have not been there yet to ski. Given what I am looking for is there anyone onboard who as some indepth experience of the skiing available there and the wider area in the Pyrenees that might fit my shopping list ? Towns or villages that might offer the kind of access I am looking for without breaking my piggybank.
Appreciate any help can get.

A snowHead

Also any other ideas outside the area of the Pyrenees would likewise be welcome ,but really need to be supported by having real on the ground experience of the area in question. Like I say I can't investigate every possibility in the world LOL

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

In the Alps, Bourg D'Oisans and environs - plenty of skiing, nice place to live, reasonable prices. Likewise Briancon and associated villages on the other side of the Col du Lautaret.

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I didn't own a place as such but I did teamed up with a friend to take out a mobile home in Chamonix for 8 years until the site was sold for development.

I also learned skiing through it and after I was 50. I used the facilities in summer by motorcycling in the Alps and skiing in the winter.

Possibly as a late comer I have a strong desire to see the rest of the skiing world and believe going back to the same place year in and year out can be a drag.

As a member of a 2-men syndicate for a 35 sq. m. (350 sq. ft) static caravan it still cost me over 1000 GBP/annum to keep my place. It is a good way to know the place but I find travelling around with my own car to visit various resorts freely in France/Switzerland/Italy/Austria/Germany can be equally enjoyable while there are still plenty of skiing resorts yet to be discovered.

Chamonix is one of the best place to be as it is at a meeting point of France, Italy and Switzerland and there are well over 50 skiing resorts within the drivable radius of Geneva, which is less than 100km away. There are many nice cities and towns for me to go round visiting but I have no regret to break away to enjoy my current freedom.

Given a choice I prefer to do one resort per day than going back to the same place every year.

The fact that I am now driving around to various countries to ski was a direct result of getting bored in Chamonix. It all started in one year when the snow was poor and I was skiing in Megeve one day. The next day on return the rain washed a significant number of the pistes away. The following day we drove to 3 Vallees to ski and never looked back.

A skier has to ask the question before buying an oversea property " Would I like to go back to ski this resort every year in the next 10-15 years?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Lizzard,
Thank you for that. I can see access to D'Oisans being Grenoble ,but would you have any idea what the onground transfer time would be driving between the two ?
Briancon access looks less clear, would it be Turin ?
I'm trying to stay out of areas that are on the speculators map not just for financial raesons ,but perhaps more for community reasons. I'd rather share a glass with Maurice and help dig his car out than talk about careers etc if you know what I mean.
Thanks for your help,much appreciated.

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Saikee,
Thanks for the added perspective. LOL I had thought about a mobile home ,but dropped it for various reasons.
I understad what you saying completely regarding the variety of skiing and the point you make about returning to the same place year after year. However , for me this is about more than just skiing although the skiing is definaitely a significant criteria.. I'm looking for somewhere to settle down and make friends .Be part of a community again and I can't do that if I'm just passing through.
Once I take it as a permanent residence I probably will holdiay away to ski as well which hopefully will give me the best of all solutions.
Thanks again for your thoughts.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Grenoble St Geoirs to Bourg d'Oisans = about an hour and a half drive. Turin to Briancon about the same/a bit more as I remember. Bourg d'Oisans to Briancon or vice versa also about an hour and a half.

GNB is the easier airport, being smaller - easy to get in and out, quick to get through check-in/baggage claim.

After all it is free

LATECOMER, Briancon can be accessed from either Turin or Grenoble, although Turin access is mpre reliable in bad weather( 1.5 and 2hrs respectively).. From Briancon, you can also get to Montgenevre (20 minutes), and Puy St Vincent (20 minutes), as well as some other smaller resorts, the offpiste resort of La Grave is 30 minutes , Les Deux-Alpes about an hours drive. Chris who posts here lives out there and I have an apartment in Monetier-les-Bains. We have also used Geneva airport (3.5 hrs) to get there. Briancon also has good shops for permanent residents. Feel free to PM me if you want any more information. I suggest you visit the area you decide to purchase in at all times of the year first to give you a feel for the place, especially if it is likely to become your home. Good luck.

LATECOMER, we have recently bought in Samoens. 1 hour from Geneva - 8 from Calais. Reasonable prices (compared with Chamonix valley). Great ski area (grand Massif) but also within 45 mins drive of Chamonix, Morzine, Les Gets and others. Samoens is only at 750m which is IMO a good thing - it means that the accessibility around the village in the winter is relativly good - it is in the valley which is faily flat - but the Gondola (new in 2003) takes you up to 1600m in 8 minutes. If you want more details on Samoens or surrounding area let me know. The buying process can be fun too wink

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Consider coming to play in Bourg Saint Maurice with us! 7 mins on the funiculaire to Les Arcs and Paradiski - 20 mins to 1 hour from numerous other resorts including Val D'Isere and 3 Valleys. Eurostar to your door and loadsa airports within 2 hours. Prices far lower than in higher resorts....and a real town..
As for how easy the buying process is....mmmmmm... we'll let you know coz we've only just started.

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Well I'll try and help , but unfortunately , I'm afraid most of us will just trot our favourite ski resorts and they may not fit your individual circumstances and wants. Suffice to say that the buying process in France is very easy and probably less problematic than the UK. More details probably relevant after you have decided where.

snow reports

Shame on us all, trotting out our favourite ski resorts wink

. I can't comment on the Pyrenees, as I've never skied there. When we started to look for an apartment we though about buying there, but discounted it simply for the reasons above. We chose Serre Chevalier in the end because it has a good summer season as well as a Winter one, and we were already regular visitors.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed so far please keep ideas coming as your thoughts can only help refine my own. I'm doing a little surfing to dig into the ideas proposed so dar and if it's ok I may come back to you to ask for more info where the internet does not give me what I need.

EEvans...thanks and yes perhaps some other criteria would help to further narrow down possibilites. Summer activities would be horse riding for my daughter and water based (not really the sea) for me & good biking area..generally nice areas to walk and picnic would be good for the family as a whole. Within an hour to hour and half drive of something approximating urbanisation so that my wife does not get shopping withdrawal symtoms . No diving from very great heights attached to anything insubstantial required as I don't bounce as well as I used to LOL .
Would help if I could get this sorted for not more than E200k as I don't wish to really start selling or borrowing against assets to do this. Hence , why I need to stay out of speculation pockets as otherwise I doubt I can do what I am trying to do on this budget. Indeed I may have to do this in two stages as it is ,but I hope not.
Thanks for your help , much appreciated.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

LATECOMER, Turin has excellent shopping.

A snowHead

Well shopping is not something I have any expertise in either other than as a bystander with a chequebook ..be good if I could find some shopping for my wife without it being too toxic for my wallet. Turin looks decidely like a place that I should ensure is out of weekly reach Wink

Likewise Cote d'Azur that I remember was a ladies paradise for clothes shopping...which might be a bit too tempting..now I'm really thinking about it perhaps I should be zeroing in on a shepherds hut at 7,000 ft with walking access only ! Wink

By water I am really thinking Lakes the most appropriate although again they don't have to be on my doorstep..any within an hours drive should meet my needs . Prioritising here for a second , I think skiing , horse riding are the most important with biking and water sports following.

Nearly forgot..reliable broadband access a must ,but I doubt that will really be a problem for most areas these days.

I agree I need to go to the likely area at both times of year to make sure it meets my needs..that's a very good idea. However , I need to do a lot of weeding out of options first otherwise by the time I get done visiting them all I'll be trying to ski on a zimmer frame. Now there's a potential business idea waiting to happen ..on reflection it sounds more like an acident waiting to happen Wink

A snowHead

LATECOMER, I've been trying to ski in the French Pyrennees for the last season or two but not managed it for various reasons. I have done some research though. The biggest area is Bareges/la Mongie which is meant to be slightly soulless, but offers the biggest area. This is in the Haute Pyrenees. Heading East there are resorts like Cauterets which offer all year round activites as they are near the national park and sights like Gavarnie. Then you come to places like Ax, which is meant to have good touring and limited alpine skiing, but, again, things like horses and kayaking in the summer. The area I know best is still further East in the Pyrennees Orientales. There are 9 (?) resorts that share a pass called Neiges Catalanes and, although unlinked, offer a good degree of mileage. Les Angles is one of these and has a large lake at it's foot. Very nice in the summer with mountain biking etc. The only time I tried to ski there all the lifts were shut due to high winds and yards of snow. Even les Angles only has about 40Km of runs and Font Romeu (next door) not much more.
The ever-excellent pistehors.com has more on the skiing around the Pyrenees generally.
All a bit second-hand I know, but hope it helps.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Does depend on how much skiing you're going to get in, and whether you really want to retire to the area all the year round at some point. Given age/retirement/skiing experience factors, I might look at somewhere in the southern French Alps - considerably cheaper than the likes of the Savoie, reasonable access via Marseille airport (2 - 2.5 hrs), and with the added benefit of Provencal summers. Barcelonnette - a beautiful valley town in the 04 (Alpes de Haute Provence) department, access to Pra-Loup/Allos, Sauze, and numerous small resorts. Gap, the main town in the Hautes Alpes, close to Superdévoluy, les Orres, Crévoux, Céüse, Merlette....

In fact, much as I like Bourg St Maurice, in different circumstances I would definitely opt for a return to the laid-back Provençal lifestyle, the sunshine, the people, the food... Wink

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If I was looking a france and wanted to draw an arbitrary line to separate the Northern Alps from the Southern Alps where would I draw it from a skiing point of view ?

From anyone whose spent extensive time in both the Northern and Southern Alps what are the major climate differences if any that I would find ? Hotter ,colder ,wetter at what time of year ?

I'm looking forward eventually to enjoying the experience of having distinct seasons again which now seem to have all but disappeared here in the NW of England. However , excess rainfall is something I wouldn't be sorry to say goodbye to. Which also leads to the question about water. I seem to have read somewhere that certain parts of France are virtually drought ridden. Surely that cannot be the case in or adjacent to mountain ranges can it ? Or do they have the water ,but no adequate means to store it ?

I've looked on weather sites ,but to be frank they are a bit too generalised to be much help.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

LATECOMER, I suspect that PG has it about right although if you want lakes plus all the above anywhere in the 'Valais' region of Switzerland would fit the bill as well ..

brian

LATECOMER, roughly between Grenoble and Turin I think.

btw, have you had a look at Switzerland ? Some cantons are a lot easier to buy in than others but the property market seems fairly stable and valuations tend to seem reasonable.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

LATECOMER, Not sure why you would want to draw an imaginary line between Northern and Souther Alps. I think of Grenoble and Turin ( and hence L2A and SC) as about 1/2-ish way. It is all however a relatively small area compared to France as a whole. It doesn't mean that driving to all is practical or even possible during winter months in a straight line. In the summer i drive up the Old Route Napoleon ..; beautiful and wild but in the winter If I were visting L2A I would take the autoroutes ...

The climate differences are quite marked - even between adjacent valleys , but the height of the Alps guarantees different 'seasons'. Even though I live at the foot of The Alps I wouldn't start to compare, as 40 miles further North has very different 'seasons' .....

BTW - drought conditions are far less common in France than UK although some departements and particularly some alpine villages are having problems.

After all it is free

I have thought about Switzerland ,but other than for taxation purposes I decided it was not for me. I think if I were to go the germanic route I would probably lean towards Austria rather than Switzerland. In fact I have not ruled Austria (Salzburgland ) out of the equation yet. However , I think ,not sure yet, that the French climate might have an edge over the Austrian one for the summer months. That is , I think Austria might be a little bit more wet than I am looking for during the summer and the duration may be shorter than the French summer. Still need to really check that out with someone whose there , or been there during that part of the year.

Actually when you start down this road of refining ideas it really is funny what you find yourself doing. I can see I am trying to find some kind of shangri la that basically drops out of a snowy winter striaght into a lovely summer with very little wet stuff in between whilst magically still conjuring up enough water to meet daily needs Wink

LOL Is there such a place other than in my head ?

Briancon (Serre Chevalier, Montgenèvre) is technically in the southern French Alps but in terms of climate is probably closer to the northern Alps. But if you draw a line from Valence to Briancon it gives you an idea of an approximate 'boundary'. Drought is a potential problem everywhere these days, the northern Alps have suffered too in recent years.

Summers are hotter in the Provençal backwaters, but away from the coast winter temperatures can be very cold indeed. More than once each winter I've seen night time temperatures as low as -15°C in our place near Avignon (at 330m), during the coldest periods. Then again, the very same day you might be eating lunch outside in the sun at 1pm, the thermometer reading +20/25°C.

Still, it is a dry cold, unlike in the UK.

The seasons are certainly 'distinctive'. Summers are great. Just so long as you have nothing very important to do between 10 am and 4 pm! Very Happy

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"Just so long as you have nothing very important to do between 10 am and 4 pm! "..That's what I am aiming for besides which if I can get WiFi access I can do any bits of work I want to attend to whilst knocking back a Latte in the sunshine.

I really quite like temperature variations PG , what I don't like is excess wet stuff most of the year round anymore.

Do you know approx what transfer time is from Grenoble down to the Gap area ?

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LATECOMER, about 2 hours drive to Gap I think.

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LATECOMER, about 2.5 hours again, but Marseille is a better option for Gap - a 2 hour drive, better roads, and as it's not considered to be a winter sports destination airport, you can get some pretty good flight bargains even at peak times. (It's a bit over 3 hours from Nice airport, as an alternative option).

One other issue I have read about is anti-british sentiment. Is this just the media tying to sell newspapers ,or is it a real issue in any of the areas we have been discussing above ?

You know it makes sense.

LATECOMER, I can only comment on Serre Chevalier, and I have certainly had none of that since we bought our apartment. The locals are friendly and welcoming, even asking where our dog was last time we visitied, we took her at Christmas, but flew down earlier this month. The ski technician has a joke with my husband 'the Englishman with the French name'.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

LATECOMER, reading through your earlier posts, on the topic of water, there's the beautiful Lac de Serre Ponçon near to Gap. Waterskiing, sailing, the lot.

There's a fair bit of discussion about this (alleged anti-British sentiment) in various threads on snowHeads. Absolute tosh in most cases. Caveat emptor though, when purchasing in the French countryside. To some locals, foreigners and Parisians are considered a) rich and b) fair game Wink

. Artisans will occasionally charge you 'extra', but in the nicest possible way of course!

A snowHead

I can second pg's opinion of Lac de Serre Poncon, it's gorgeous.

brian

LATECOMER, pretend to be Ecossais, they usually love us wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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"Tosh"..yes well, that's what I thought might be the case. Media selling papers as usual.

Lac de Serre Poncon..yes , I've seen that on the map I am studying which is why I asked about Gap ..it certainly looks large enough for major water sports and an autoroute straight from Marseille through to Gap and Grenoble coming from the north as a combination would look like good access possibilities...another factor..when I looked at Austria (Salzburg) the options for cheap flights are comparatively limited.

"Fair game"...LOL that cuts both ways ,but if they can get the 'extra' out of me then they will have earned it and be welcome to it just as soon as they have sobered up LOL

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

"the only arrogance and ignorance I see is from the Brits "...and you don't have to go to France to see that on a daily basis...just try the car park at my daughters school on any given morning

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

LATECOMER, I echo Lizzard,'s sugestion. You could well think of Bourg d'Oisans. All you ask for (no motor water stuff though), great summer activities all round and about 30 mins from both LDA ans ADH + 1.5 hours to Serre Chevalier + lots of smaller resorts around as well. It's a much nicer town in summer than in winter though. Grenoble for big shopping BTW.

After all it is free

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All your criteria are still saying one side or other of the Col du Lautaret - listen to easiski and Helen Beaumont! I vote for Bourg d'Oisans because I live there and am prejudiced, but I've spent lots of time on the other side of the col and could as easily live there. If 'er indoors might miss shopping and other 'civilised' pursuits I'd recommend proximity to Grenoble over Gap or Briancon. Lakes at Serre Poncon as mentioned, as well as Lac du Chambon and Lac du Laffrey. Camping and walking everywhere in the Ecrins, but also up the Val Claree near Briancon, which is stunning.

Total non sequitur: recommend 'A Wild Herb Soup' by to anyone who hasn't read it - account of peasant life in the southern alps from the turn of the century, v fascinating.

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To Buy Or not To Buy

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