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Too steep to groom?

 Poster: A snowHead
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nessy, OK, that would explain the changed grading, but as of last year the Roggen t-bar still lifts you off your feet at the top and face-plants you into a wall of snow Smile And the first drop on that piste is still red. The bottom drop of the Laucheren (the chair in Oberiberg) - just after you come out of the tunnel - is still pretty steep but I guess the piste remains blue partly based on the average gradient and partly because that steep pitch is short and you aren't going to come to much harm if you do slide to the bottom. But to ski it properly needs more technique than I would expect a "blue run" skier to possess. IMVHO

Quote:
In general though I guess that local's places do not have to appeal to beginners (unless they also want to attract families) in the same way that holiday destinations do. I am probably not ready to take my kids to Hoch Ybrig yet although we have a ball at Flumserberg.


Good point. Only been to Flumserberg once - too many people. Apart from on the accidental black we did Smile
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Style Outmoded word and has no place in modern skiing.

I agree absolutley with Kramer and Ise about the percentage of peeps on black runs. Too many out of control - twisting your skis frm side to side and sideslipping violently in each direction in turn is not "linking parallel turns"! I never ski the Combe Valentin after 3.30 in the afternoon (unless the weather's terrible) as I reckon there's too much danger to my life!! Shocked
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easiski, style has a perfectly valid sartorial place in skiing. The problem is that it rarely appears what with everyone wearing black ski trousers. Actually though, I have to say that I IMHO reckon good French (and Canadian) skiers are more stylish than good Swiss (or US) ones. Don't know enough Austrians to comment and as for the Italians? Puzzled
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David Murdoch, You almost never see a Danish person who's not all in black! Laughing Laughing
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Last week I shared a lift with a very friendly pensioner from Vancouver. He wore a lurid shiny purple all-in one with green boots (honestly!) and, in my opionio, he had great style.
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easiski, Now, you realise I'm criticising black itself, just the lack of alternatives. The Danes are very stylish though, although their country is a little flat.

Anyway - doesn't style follow function? wink
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
easiski wrote:
David Murdoch, You almost never see a Danish person who's not all in black! Laughing Laughing


At night you presumably don' t see them at all. Sounds dangerous to me. No wonder the incidence of nocturnal pedestrian collision is so high in Copenhagen (second only as a cause of death to boredom, apparently).
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easiski wrote:
... and sideslipping violently in each direction in turn is not "linking parallel turns"
Could you please explain violent slideslipping in more detail? Many times I have seen people zigzigging down steeper slopes, the whole while they look unsteady, unbalanced and unhappy. They do a very tight turn, jam in their edges and do a long traverse. Then they repeat in the other direction.
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Adrian, I sort of pictured the frequently seen panic turn followed by jamming on the sideslip brakes, with far more metres of vertical descended than piste traversed in between each turn! The equivalent of the sideways-on boarder descending whole steep sections without a single turn, pushing several cubic metres of snow before him.
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That's what I had in mind too - and sometimes (I like to feel less frequently these days) it's me doing it!
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I can do you a demo Adrian Very Happy I have plenty of practise - for best effect swear constantly as you slip down the hill - gives the performance that extra edge of incompetence Twisted Evil aj xx
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Quote:
veeeight, isn't "style" exactly what you are looking at when you are watching your students, walk, click in etc?


Definitely not.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I'm quite frankly amazed that anyone would classify themselves as an "advanced intermediate" after one week's skiing... especially the brits I've seen who claim to have skiied 6 weeks or more in Europe and still throw themselves around the turn using their shoulders...

I'm happy to ski anything thrown at me... but not always with grace or style (or purple all in one!) but I know I'm far, far, FAR from being expert when I see the local Canadians taking a mogul field like it's a groomed green! Laughing
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Does anyone really call themselves advanced intermediate that quickly? I've never known any of my mates to try it? Although possibly that because I always call myself a lower intermediate Toofy Grin aj xx
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Alexandra, I agree that calling yourself an advanced intermediate after one week is not understanding skiing or a bit of a P*** take.

That is down to the indiviual, I do not think that you can tar all "brits" with the same brush.

Just the same way eveyone can drive a car, some better than other and some who think thay are better than they really are.
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I think the best one is to ask your instructor to tell you what level you are - more likely to get a closer to honest answer from them.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Especially if your instructor is Easiski! Very Happy
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My last instructor said to come next year and go heliskiing - don't trust them!
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marc gledhill wrote:
My last instructor said to come next year and go heliskiing - don't trust them!


Seconded! Our instructor said to go with his group to Argentina and Chile in the summer and "enjoy" chest-deep powder rolling eyes Laughing
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Just come to the EoSB and get an assessment from your fellow snowHeads!
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TallTone wrote:
Just come to the EoSB and get an assessment from your fellow snowHeads!


me shakes with fear. it would be like throwing raw meat into a pool of sharks. Laughing
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Nick_C, the only assessing I'm likely to do is of other snowHeads' computer problems Laughing
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Quote:

for best effect swear constantly as you slip down the hill

ajhainey, personally, I find that punctuating each turn with a pole plant and expletive makes scary icy slopes a whole lot easier to ski, and lends more weight to whatever your expletive of choice is. Even if the rest of the group are listening with disbelief and call you 'Little Miss Pottymouth' afterwards. It beats quaking with fear and jibbering at the top of the slope. Suffice to say that I was 'skiing' (or surviving, anyway) conditions above my natural ability this year! Intermediate Advanced? I don't think so... Can we have a new catergory for Intermediate Intimidated? rolling eyes
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Adrian wrote:
easiski wrote:
... and sideslipping violently in each direction in turn is not "linking parallel turns"
Could you please explain violent slideslipping in more detail? Many times I have seen people zigzigging down steeper slopes, the whole while they look unsteady, unbalanced and unhappy. They do a very tight turn, jam in their edges and do a long traverse. Then they repeat in the other direction.


As already explained this "technique" involves a completely flat ski on a steep slope (ice is optional). The "skier" then flings their entire body around 180 deg until they're facing the other way. Their edges never touch the snow, they continue down the hill in a more or less vertical descent, merely changing the direction of their ski but never, never their direction of travel. This is normally completed at approx 40 kph.

To see this phenomenon at it's best, come to LDA in mid-winter and stand at the side of the Combe Valentin (black, cannoned and pisted daily) run back to town at any time in between 15.30 and 17.00 any day of the week except Saturday. You should, of course, also note the faces and jackets of the main exponents, who you'll then find later in many of the 70 bars and restaurants here telling all their friends how good they are and how they mastered the evil black or words to that effect.

Happily, as many Snowheads can attest, there are lots of much more pleasant (mostly unpisted by machine) ways down the mountain, which don't seem to attract these strange and dangerous creatures. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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easiski,
Quote:

As already explained this "technique" involves a completely flat ski on a steep slope (ice is optional). The "skier" then flings their entire body around 180 deg until they're facing the other way. Their edges never touch the snow, they continue down the hill in a more or less vertical descent, merely changing the direction of their ski but never, never their direction of travel.


You've been spying on me Embarassed Embarassed
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Stop the Brutel Grooming Skullie
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easiski wrote:
Happily, as many Snowheads can attest, there are lots of much more pleasant (mostly unpisted by machine) ways down the mountain

Ahhh. The thread comes full circle Toofy Grin . Wasn't my original point that it's best not to ruin steep runs with this wretched machinery?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Jonny Jones, Well we have an oddity here because many of our blacks are the last runs down to the resort. One (Combe Valentin) has connons and is pisted daily, Le Diable at the other end of resort is pisted every other day usually, and a third l'Y (pronounced eegreck) is pisted around twice a week. The rest of the face is left unpisted, however much of it is not on the map (although someimes is) is sometimes patrolled etc - get the picture. If it's icy ruts after a nice squelchy day it's exptremely unpleasant. The resort does not mark conditions on the day, and certainly does not take responsibility for people's accidents! Shocked
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
easiski wrote:
......and a third l'Y (pronounced eegreck)


Somewhat off-topic, I realise but how on Earth does l'y get prounounced "eegreck"?? I accept my French is pretty basic but good grief, how is a chap to make himself understood in foreign climes if les etrangers play this sort of trick on us? Shocked rolling eyes
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from memory that is how they say the name of the letter Y
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eg in german I beileve it is called "ipsilon" (like the word epsilon in english)... could sing my abc in german but never in french so do not trust me but I think that is right...
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Thank you, easiski, for the description of "sideslipping violently". I apologise for not finding your original description.

If you omit the out of control and excessive speed parts of your description then it sounds rather like an edge control exercise I have been given. (I use an older style of skiing and do not use the modern extreme craving skis.) Slide slip down the fall line, turn with pole plant but without any forward or backward motion, continue slide slipping, repeat. Ie each turn is completed within the track that would have been made if the slide slip had been continued.

As to the people you describe, why do so many people waste perfectly good lift passes on lie-ins and hangovers? I guess they can be found at all ski resorts.
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"ipsilon" and "epsilon" are names of different Greek letters, see for example http://www.translexis.demon.co.uk/alphabet.htm

I think that "eegreck" is also a Greek letter, it may be an alternate name for "ipsilon", but on a quick web search I cannot find any definitions of "eegreck"
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Jonny Jones wrote:
easiski wrote:
Happily, as many Snowheads can attest, there are lots of much more pleasant (mostly unpisted by machine) ways down the mountain

Ahhh. The thread comes full circle Toofy Grin . Wasn't my original point that it's best not to ruin steep runs with this wretched machinery?


There's something quite pleasant about skiing a really steep bit of corduroy though.
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Indeed, "eegreck" is how the french pronounce the letter "y" - literally translated, it's greek "i", as opposed to a "I", and it would be spelled "I grècque"

easiski wrote:
As already explained this "technique" involves a completely flat ski on a steep slope (ice is optional). The "skier" then flings their entire body around 180 deg until they're facing the other way. Their edges never touch the snow, they continue down the hill in a more or less vertical descent, merely changing the direction of their ski but never, never their direction of travel.


Well, on my Dave Murray Camp, we spent a few pistes practicing this technique - our instructor called it "Braquage", although I may have the spelling wrong. In essence, it's sideslipping but without traversing the slope - useful for just losing a little height in rocky areas etc was the reasoning, I think Smile

*edited to add french pronunciation and spelling*
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nbt wrote:
Well, on my Dave Murray Camp, we spent a few pistes practicing this technique - our instructor called it "Braquage", although I may have the spelling wrong. In essence, it's sideslipping but without traversing the slope - useful for just losing a little height in rocky areas etc was the reasoning, I think Smile

*edited to add french pronunciation and spelling*


A straight sideslip is also a quick & dirty way of checking your balance on your skis.
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I'm a bit fan of sideslipping when the going gets too tough and I want to be a yard or two below where I am. I use it a bit in steep bumps to deal with having put myself where I didn't want to be following a botched turn. I don't think I could manage easiski's sideslipping turn even if I wanted to, tough; it sounds far too energetic.
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richmond, it's possible to do something similar but with a little less flinging - provided you can cope with a moment in the fall line...
From the sideslip, roll the skis flat and lean forward very slightly. Keep the skis flat and twist them slightly, then go into a gentle hockey stop.
(OK, this description isn't the best, but it can be done without too much effort)
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Sounds like what I was taught as a "power slide", particularly for steep pitches - initiate the turn as usual, but somewhere past the fall line, rather than completing the carved turn, tip the skis onto their flats to change direction to move down instead of across the slope, thereby losing height, then engage the edge again as you want to make the next turn - good way of losing height and controlling speed, but takes some guts to start with. But hardly the flailing "fling yourself round 180 degrees" that Easiski was describing Wink
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