boot, binding, board buying advice (in that order)

A snowHead

Hi All,
I posted a Q on this topic in the equipment forum, and then helpfully got pointed to the boarding forum where I found some good info going back through the posts. Still a couple of small questions if anybody has time to help me out Very Happy

I'm learning snow-boarding (abs beginner) at weekends (Switzerland), and I've decided i should at least get boots, and maybe a board and bindings as daily rental is a pain in the Skullie

All the advice I've seen is that boots are the most important thing from a comfort (and control) point of view, so I'm planning to go around a few shops and look at boots in the sales and try things on to see what works for my feet (maybe starting with Salomons as I've read good things here and the rentals were ok). Beyond fit, what's important? (and what makes an expensive boot expensive?)

Depending on board/binding offers, I might even finish off the ensemble. Am I right in understanding that bindings are maybe the next most important thing after boots, coming before the board? I'd plan to get straps (which I've used, though i'll definitely look at flows for comparison, all seems to be a matter of preference from what I've read), and maybe again look first at Salomon (i've used in rental, and past reports on the forum indicate the durability is pretty good). But even then, the selection is a bit baffling. On the Salomon website, there's a bunch of models from $ to $$$... can anyone tell me in plain language what the broad differences are as price increases (i guess weight goes down... surely more than that though). So, beyond finding bindings that fit my boots nicely, what else should I look for.

And finally, on the board. The main advice I can gather is don't buy cheap, buy for at least intermediate as progression is fast, and try to rent the model before buying. Unfortunately, I'm not so sure what intermediate means? Can anyone shed some light on that?

Thanks in advance!

Michael snowHead

A snowHead

This is gonna be a big post snowHead

OK, starting with boots:
Boots are indeed the most important piece of equiptment. More expensive boots generally give you:
1. A better fit, that will be more shaped like an actual foot, will be snugger, and will have a firmer liner that will "pack out" less over time
2. A better system for holding your heel down in the boot, which basically keeps your whole foot locked in place
3. A better lacing system (easier to lace up tightly)
4. Lighter
5. More durable (will stay usefull longer)
Try on tons of boots - even if you find a pair that fits well, keep trying on more boots. You want them to be a very snug fit - it should feel as if theres a hand wrapping around every part of your foot, and squeezing a bit. The footbed (what your foot rests on) should also feel comfortable and supportive. Your toes should just touch the end of the boot, without being forced to curl up at all. In general you will buy boots 1/2 a size (if buying in UK or US sizes) smaller than your shoes, sometimes even a full size smaller, or sometime the same size as your shoes (though these boots will likely be too roomy). Buy them from a reputable shop with a good salesperson. If you get heat moldable boots (a good idea), make sure they heat mold them properly (they should heat up the liners for around 15 minutes, put a really thin sock over your foot with a "toe cap" inside, and then have you put the hot boots on semi-tight, and have you stand on a wedge, or with your knees bent, until the liners cool enough to retain their shape).
A good short-list of medium-stiff, average to semi-high-priced boots to try would be:
- Salomon: Dialogue, Synapse, F22
- 32: Lashed, TM2, 305
- Vans: BFB, DK2, Fargo
- Burton: Ion, Ruler
- Celsius: Climate, CL5
Or whatever you find that fits best.

Bindings:
Bindings are also very important. Basically a bad binding will be uncomfortable and will break alot - bindings are fidly, and bad bindings can be unbelievably annoying pieces of equptment. In theory, more expensive bindings should be:
1. More durable
2. More comfortable
3. Generally more resposive/stiffer
4. Lighter
Buy your boots first, and then buy bindings that feel good with your boots. Many brands have "cap straps" - straps that fit over your toes, which are supposedly more comfortable and more responsive. They are worth trying, but are not essential. A good shortlist of bindings to try includes:
- Burton: Cartel, Mission
- Rome: 390
- Salomon: SPX 44, SPX Pro, SPX 88
- K2: Formula
- Ride: EX, SPI, Team, Tomcat
- Drake: Supersport
Or once again, whatever feels best, seems well made, and gets a recommendation from a good salesperson.

Board:
A good "intermediate" board would be best for you. An advanced "freeride" board is going to be too hard to handle, and a begginer board you will grow out of too quickly. Theres alot of stuff about what makes a board good for what, and I'm not gonna get into all that, so I'll just list a few good choices for intermediate boards that are good for all types of riding:
- Rome: Solution
- Option: Redline, Sansalone (pricier)
- Burton: Custom (overpriced, no better than a Solution or Redline and normally more expensive, but if you get a good deal it's worth it)
- Palmer: Honeycircle, Honeycomb (pricier)
- Ride: Decade
But my top picks for you would definitely be a Solution or Redline.

Anyways, hope that helps, and good luck finding good gear!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Hi Micheal.

First off, don't listen to any marketing bull. Spend at least two hours in a store trying on boots. These are the most impt' element. At this stage just buy what is comfortable. Don't worry about levels of boot stiffness, just be concernced about whether your heels lift in the boot. Personally I couldn't recommend Salomon any higher on the boot front. Ride and Salomon have the best bindings out this year despite what Burton riders might say. If anyone watches this closely than I'm gonna get shot for saying that!!! On the board front, the advice is right, spend a £100 or Euro equivalent more, and get a board that'll see you through for 3 or 4 years. The Ride Option board is an all-around winner in my view. Great in the park and just about stiff enough for the fluffy stuff.

PM if you want more info.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Ha ha,

Hi ponder

michaelc, exchange all Ride references for Rome Laughing

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

thanks very much for the tips Very Happy

,
nice to hear that my initial Salomon inclination wasn't wrong (though clearly not complete either!)

Thanks saxabar for the PM advice offer, and big thanks to ponder for taking the time to make lists for me! Boots I thought I could sort of fathom, and maybe when I started looking at bindings I might be able to judge quality/shoddiness, but I find the names & specs of boards quite baffling. Puzzled

It's great to have some concrete names of things to look for (in each category) so I'll definitely print out the list and get out and about shopping.

Two other makes I'd be interested in opinions on are rossignol and niedecker. I'm in Switzerland and see these in the shops a lot. Anything good/bad in their lines?

Anyway, first priority is clearly boots, and after that I believe buying won't be so tricky (or quite so critical).

A small point on boot fit. Is it really ok to let the toe touch the top of the boot? In that case the first pair of 43s I was offered at the weekend might have been ok, but I really thought i'd be in a lot of pain later in the day (wearing a hiking boot so small can kill your big toenail, totally different sport, I know, but that's what was in my head). Basically the toe just touched, and I thought that if I changed into thin socks (like dress-socks) i might have been ok. I just don't have experience of this, so it's hard for me to judge (so the advice to find a good salesperson is of course very apt).

Thanks again,
Michael

You'll need to Register first of course.

You really want snowboard boots to be as snug as possible - when the fit is loose, you lose some control, and also your foot tenses up to try and make up for it, so you actually end up in more pain. Also, when you have your knees bent (which is the position you're in while riding), your toes automatically pull back a little bit.
As for Rossi and Nidecker, I don't know anyone with Rossi gear - they're not nearly as much of a name in snowboarding as they are in skiing. Their gear might be OK, I just simply have never heard anyone talking about it. I know Nidecker make good boards and decent bindings, but I don't know anything about their boots.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I would agree with Ponder. I bought a Nidecker Target and I am well pleased with it - only cost £130 too. I'm thinking of an Atomic Radon if Kim'll let me buy one next year No NO No she says - she's just seen me typing this

After all it is free

ponder, Hmmm I'd argue that you want your boots, when loose-laced, to be like wearing an elastic sock . . . close and comforting, snug, touching everywhere yet not 'tight' and with the tips of your toes just kissing the nose of the boot. You can then use lace tension to control how tight you cynch them to your feet and keep your heel down in the back pocket of the boot. I feel it's important to be able to keep forefoot and leg tension separate (Salomon have locking cleats and you can X-Knot others) since these body parts have different roles in riding. You want your boots to be stiff enough to drive your board yet comfortable enough to hike a mile or two out of a back bowl.

It's probably the same as ski boots in the sense that you need to keep your heel down and your toes from lifting into a void, though the toestrap helps.

It is a matter of taste and testing, I used some Switch boots for a couple of years with no probs, yet a mate wore the same model for a day and almost had to be hospitalised for infected friction blisters Confused

Basically, once you're laced up, your boot should feel like a stiff second skin, no rubbing or slop, yet able to slacken off, if and when needed, to keep the blood flowing . . . it's a tough call and only your feet can tell you the truth.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

saxabar, the foot IS an erogenous zone, you need to treat it with respect . . . wink

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Masque, I think we're thinking the same thing. When loose laced it should be like "wearing an elastic sock," but when tightly laced the boots should be "as snug as possible." Obviously this does not mean that you should have pressure points digging into your feet or anything like that, but that it should be an even, firm fit over every part of your foot.

snow reports

Nidecker are a Swiss firm...so you'll see a lot of them around. I bought a Nidecker Chill last season, ad have been happy with it....but as I've done very little boarding, I wouldn't follow my own advice without a second opinion!!

toes just touching the end of your boot is fine.. untill you have to do a long heelside traverse or path

You know it makes sense.

CANV CANVINGTON, It's a teeny bit like ski boots, once you're strapped in you toes will have plenty of clearance. I did say just 'kissing' (not snogging NehNeh

) when loose-laced. and why are you using your toes on a heel traverse wink

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Masque, heheh .. i had a pair of vans with the boa wire system so you could do em as tight as you wanted but my toes just touched the end of the boot on when getting heavy on the heel turns i found it really annoying.. i got a pair of bigger k2's with laces and a boa system on the lining which were loads better fo rme.... sometimes i did em up too tight.. its hard to get a stock boot that stops heel left and is comfy enough to last all day..
best bet is to just point the f.ker straight downhill and miss out all that tiresome turning rubbish

A snowHead

CANV CANVINGTON, agree about not being able to completely rule out heel lift.
I've taken to not worrying about it - have quite loose boots and improve my technique.
Also - pointing the board more directly down the hill seems to help.

A snowHead

Sort of sidebar to the earlier discussion.
I was renting again today, and took the pair I originally thought too small (43, which is my shoe size). This pair also touched my toe, but since it's my last lesson I thought I'd try it out. They were perfectly comfortable all day, only noticed the toe-touch when walking to the restaurant at lunchtime (and even then it was not a problem). Thanks all for the advice.

Now I just need to find the time to go to the shops!

Michael

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boot, binding, board buying advice (in that order)

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