 Poster: A snowHead
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Ok, spurred on by a few comments in other threads (Good Mogul Skis, Knee problems) - I thought I'd post here what I would say is an example of some very good (technical, not freestyle) bump skiing.
What I look for:
1. Smooth
2. Quiet Upper body
3. Deflection of CoM from side to side
4. Round Turn Shape
5. Rhythmical
6. Powerful steering/turning effort from the lower joints
7. Descent in the fall line
Don't be misled by the apparent ease of the skiing - this is a steep slope, with large bumps!
Right Click, Save Target As - for some bizzaire reason, you may have to rename the extension .wmv if your player doesn't like it.
Feel free to critique.
4 MB approx.
PS: Does anyone know how to display it here as an embedded video, with stop/start controls?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 11-07-06 20:43; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| veeeight wrote: |
| PS: Does anyone know how to display it here as an embedded video, with stop/start controls? |
You can't (at the minute)... but it's on the list somewhere after the ability to download PMs... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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veeeight, very nice.
I don't think a great deal of criticism will arise!
Although, ( ) is it the camera angle or does skier #3 have slightly assymetrical arm movements/positions? Just to nit pick you understand...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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veeeight, I can only get the vid to run for about half a second & then it stops - & I've tried it in the .wmv as well. Any suggestions?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You could try viewing the file with a different viewer, or downloading the file again incase it got corrupt, or view a copy below:
Click here to watch
(Change View Size to Original)
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veeeight, you do make me laugh! (in a [v] good way). All three are ripping great lines - BTW are you one of the participants?
At risk of great castigation and criticism, here's me attempting the same sort of thing...here
For those that know the run it's on La Leisse in Tignes but doesn't look nearly as steep as your stuff. Yours is much better filmed. Very nice, I think.
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David Murdoch, a few punters traversing across your line there! I'm sure you didn't yell at them though:)
The person who filmed that needed to make more use of the camera's "zoom" function, perhaps....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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veeeight, great clip, all three are very good bumps skiers.
No. 1 is definitely the smoothest - a lovely touch on the skis.
No. 2's movements look a touch more jerky, and the turns not quite as round - but perhaps that is just because of the lankier body shape.
Skier No. 3 shows an occasional hint of a "down-stem" with the left ski (ie. the tail skidding out) when finishing right-hand turns. (This happens on turns 4, 6, and 8 in the sequence.) Difficult, in this short glimpse of this skier, to tell whether that is an alignment problem or is possibly caused by a touch of hip rotation. Or maybe it's just one of those quirky habits that people have...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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veeeight, David Murdoch, Very good ! Made my back hurt just watching 
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brian
brian
Guest
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brian, that was before the yellow ones wore our and I had to resort to black.
We may remedy this for the coming season!
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You know it makes sense.
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Wahey! I think I saw myself in that video.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Were you one of the frightened people traversing quickly across, to get out of the way of the maniac in the yellow pants 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Martin Bell, My day (week? month? year? decade?...) is made. Martin Bell implies I'm a maniac!
Yeeeehhhh...Haaaaawwwwww!!
I do think I was skiing politely I hasten to add... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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RockyRobin, As mentioned before, (once I finally had lessons in bumps) I was taught what I believe is the classic "avalement" technique. My understanding is that a modification of this (higher speed, higher frequency) is what competition bumps skiers are doing. It's not easy to tell when not watching in slo-mo.
A critical question (for me) was, "How do you turn on one bump?" Previously I had attacked them as a series of turns. Once I cracked turning on a single bump properly, well the rest was easy(ier). Sorry that it's in French but this illustrates . I believe it's Damien Albert & as you see, his legs are reasonably spaced side to side - and you can't really argue that he doesn't know what he's doing...
This thread was started with some fine bumps skiing. IMO, those guys only appear to be carving. I find that on softer snow I scrub some speed off by skidding across the top of each bump - as well as through absorption. I definitely don't think you should be jamming your tips into the things. Smoothly does it...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The video at the top of the thread shows scarving, ie; a steered carve. So yes, they guys are all on their edges, but they are actively steering their skis.
Not a clean carve, nor a skidded pivot turn, in a sort of braquage type technique.
Remember that in this video we are talking about technical bump skiing, not freestyle moguls.
Also - there is an element of what RockyRobin was talking about in another thread. Aiming their tips into the (frontside) of the bump. This can be seen nearer the top of the run, where the bumps are slightly bigger, and the explosion of snow produced.
So, these two things combined (scraving and absorbtion) provide speed control.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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veeeight, scraving, now there's a new word for me. Yes, that's exactly (I think) what I mean. Feels a bit like braquage - almost as one is using ones skis as windscreen wipers to scrape speed rather than rain off.
My belief, albeit limited, was that freestyle moguls was an extreme extension of this overall technique???
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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easiski, Very brave by the sounds of things!
David Murdoch, My definition of scarving isn't windscreen wipering . Windscreen wipering suggests to me either heel-pushing with the tips as pivot points, or braquage. Rather, imagine putting your ski onto edge as if in a carve, then try and "twist" your toe out of the front binding. You will now be steering your ski around the turn, whilst on the edge. Scarving
Damian's technique is more of a freestlye moguls approach, lots of avalement, lots of vertical movement.
Neither is right or wrong, just different techniques, for different purposes.
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veeeight, David Murdoch, I agree - neither is right or wrong; you have to play with various techniques in different types of mogulfields.
It has to be said that in veeeight's video, the bumps are pretty nicely rounded and well-spaced. The skiers have the option of varying their lines and not necessarily staying in the rut-line.
In a narrow, deep rut-line, the kind that tends to be gouged out when a lot of freestyle-type bumps skiers are using a run, the rounder "scarving" tactic may not work, and you may have no choice but to use more purely pivoted turns; more like the David Murdoch video.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Have spent week skiing with Damien a few years ago. Awesome to watch him do the zipper line on his 195 Dynastars Pros (fat offpiste tools). If you can ski join him for a week and he will show you how to have fun. Highly recommended but you have to be up for it. Have a look at some videos of his clients he posts on his website.
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Those photo sequences on Damien's website are excellent.
In the mogul sequence I think he displays these:
1. Smooth
2. Quiet Upper body
3. Deflection of CoM from side to side
4. Round Turn Shape
5. Rhythmical
6. Powerful steering/turning effort from the lower joints
7. Descent in the fall line
...except for number 4, and perhaps not a massive amount of 3. But as I mentioned before, there are some rut lines which will not allow the rounder turn shape.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wow that was a mission, I had to go download a new player just to watch this one!
Number one is on the money!
Solid and centred balance fore and aft
Controlled speed of line and super flowing
Letting his legs do all the work (quite upper body)
Effective ski snow contact
Great absorption and extension
He got rhythm!!
Really nice bump skier
Chris Fecher
www.purefreeride.com
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Damian says he looked at this thread yesterday (I told him about it). I'll have to tell him to look at it again now two top pros have made nice comments!
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Martin Bell, I would agree and say that No:4 (round turn shape) is limited by the ruts, but the deflection (No:3) isn't what I would call far-reaching, he pretty much keeps his feet under him as opposed to extending laterally. Again, due to the terrain, this might not have been possible, nor a technique he might have wished to use! And to be *really* picky - No:6 (steering effort from the legs) - again, unclear from a photo sequence (disclaimer), but I think I see quite a bit of hip action (more on his right turns than left)! 
Great bump skiing nevertheless!
skierchris, Are you referring to the video at the top of the thread, or the photo sequence of Damian?
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You know it makes sense.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| And to be *really* picky - No:6 (steering effort from the legs) - again, unclear from a photo sequence (disclaimer), but I think I see quite a bit of hip action (more on his right turns than left)! |
Hey, being picky is what internet ski forums are all about!
Now you mentioned it I look closer and see it too. Of course, we're basing this on seeing just two turns, and so it is impossible to tell whether it is an ingrained trait or merely a momentary adjustment - or perhaps just a result of a slightly off-centre camera angle. Video is certainly better than even a sequence of stills.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Never in the history of snowHeads threads, have I felt so unqualified to comment. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hey
I was checking out the movie footage which is great, the stills are really nice too.
Just get in there and rip it up!
Just down from a great day at Treble cone
Sorry guys
Chris Fecher
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This doesn't qualify for epic status until people start using "centripetal" and other words that no-one understands
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm not going to say what I was going to say.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| *But* this *is* really nit-picking , and with the addition of a carefully crafted diagram, will turn into an epic (TM) post! |
That's EpicSki™ to you!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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easiski, what were you going to say?
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Wear The Fox Hat, If you want Epic then p*ss off there!
Kramer, I'm not saying - it will provoke another row.
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easiski, I've already got it!
...oh, and say what you want, I'd love to watch a good row on here - this place has been civil for a few weeks now...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Wear The Fox Hat, That's because we might not want to be shoved off it!
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easiski, this place can't survive without you!
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FAQ
s for guiding once or twice - but you have to be brave! 
Yup, skier #1 is on the money!
