Sheep Club of GB

A snowHead

Just an observation from the one time that I came across the green jacket mob on my last trip. Why on a bluebird powder day did the group feel it necessary to follow the rep almost turn for turn like a bunch of sheep or ducklings following their mother? I can only assume they were reasonably advanced as they were on an advanced lift and bearing in mind it was the US safety concerns re off-piste hazards shouldn't really have been a factor.

The rep was even on a snowboard while the rest were skiing so it wasn't as if their natural turn pattern would be the same.

Anyone else encountered this strange behaviour? on a powder day I'd certainly want to be maximising my own fresh turns rather than getting sloppy seconds (except on runouts/flats of course)

A snowHead

Stop giving them ideas...

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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fatbob, farm the pow!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

fatbob, It's known as the Lemming syndrome and afflicts many skiers the world over (thank goodness). Very Happy

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easiski, Jokes have been made about Rooney, you can't take the chav out of the lad and such like, but I'm sure the same applies to ski duckling folk. What is this thing about following the same line? Bust a move, cut a groove or some other 80s pop waddle.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

saxabar, Rooney who? Most skiers slavishly follow others onto the piste ... it now seems that SCGBers slavishly follow the rep off the piste - all the more for those with a brain!

After all it is free

actually I tend to agree with this, I skied a slope in Val D'Isere with Alpine Experience, we kept tracks a few foot apart, there were 6 of us, we left 90% of the slope untracked, around 6 other skiers/boarders trashed the whole slope behind us, when they could have left it and others could have got some decent tracks.

gregh, you were farming. An entirely noble and correct activity. The others were poachers...

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Some of us still take great pride in 'farming' ie using as little of the slope as possible, it is such a pain when skiing off piste to hit another set of tracks.

As a guide I always try to make my group match my tracks, about 2 ft to the side of the previous skiers. Depending on the slope I can vary the tighness of the turns and I believe it is really good practice for those following to control their speed and turn radius to match that of others.

It realy pi@@es me off when a boarder or 'new school' skier takes out a whole slope of new snow with just a few high speed long radius turns. I can empathise with their 'thrill' but will always think it is bad manners!

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I'm a member and have every intention of skiing with a rep one day.

But I find it hard to follow the group in the way described, so I will need to improve my skills first.

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On the slope in question which was essentially right under the lift there was not a hope in hell of it being farmed - it was not "off piste" in the European sense and being cut up in all sorts of directions by people traversing to their favoured chutes etc.

I do question whether farming is even possible given modern powder technique - its certainly far more fun laying down big high speed GS turns in powder than traditional 8s. I can see the merits of 8s in hike to terrain. Surely the bad manners part in lift served terrain doesn't really come into it if you want it get in line for the lift earlier, obviously if you've had a long skin up and some-one overtakes you at the last minute then trashes the whole target slope that would be bad manners.

fatbob, where did this 'crime' take place, JH?

You know it makes sense.

gregh,

Yep, you find your stash, ski your line and then go up and do it again and again, hopefully. In our group, its your round if you trash your buddies line...

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

The SCGB leader in Wengen made a point of telling us that we could pick our own track down the slope as long as be stayed behind her. This was on piste skiing mainly.

A snowHead

Hmm. Quite a few snowheads are also SCGB members - and the best SCGB members I have seen have been up to the best British recreational skiers I have seen ski anywhere. Of course, many others are quite average - different groups will have different standards. It is rather unusual for off-piste SCGB parties I have been in to go slavishly down in the same line - unless there has been some very special reason - like a guide saying do it or die. I am a little loathe to see snowheads taking pots at others' skiing (dangerous behaviour excepted) - why do it?

I can remember when I used to feel I had to put some balance into attacks on the SCGB in snowheads. I feel somewhat embarrassed to have to put balance on comment on this thread in the SCGB forum. Let's live in harmony, people Cool

A snowHead

I am loathe to name the location & it was not meant to be a direct criticism. The most touted reason to joining the SCGB is guiding and as a frequent solo skier it is the only thing that would entice me to join. Yet I rarely see a SCGB group in the sort of place I am skiing so coming across this one I thought I would watch them. I would say they were at least upper-intermediate to advanced level (maybe 7-8 on the slush & rubble scale) but what I saw was not a good advert for the SCGB to me. I would have lasted about 1 run before making my excuses.

Maybe I was overestimating the ability of the group members or they had previously exclusively been piste skiers either of which would have explained the behaviour. It just seemed oddly "British" behaviour when everyone else was tearing up the slopes like banshees.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

fatbob, it's been explained over on the SCGB site, by the reps themselves, that each day caters for a specific standard.

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fatbob,

The sarcastic title of your thread and your original post says more about you than it does about the ski club.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

fatbob, surely if they want to ski like that, then it's not a problem?

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Oh Boy! How is it that anyone can slag the ESF with impunity, but dare to criticise the SCGB and there's a minor outcry???? Puzzled

I've done the reps course, been a member all my young life, and now don't have any time for them. ESF any day!!!! At least they're qualified. AND THIS IS NOT THE SCGB FORUM - I STAY AWAY FROM THAT Shock

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easiski, Well said, Its been said before and no doubt will have to be said again. Sad

After all it is free

easiski, bit tetchy innit? Are your feet still hurting? (How are the new boots settling down, BTW?) I think "minor outcry" is overstating it a bit. Anyway, I've spoken well of ESF tuition on snowheads. Indeed, one of the few instructors on a par with you for me was Gilles Galvani - also of LDA. But I quite agree with you that this thread is in the wrong section. I think the mods should move it.

This 'farming' thing is all news to me - as is pretty much all off-piste ski jargon Embarassed

so I'm confused.

The first post in this thread ridicules skiiers for 'follow-my-leader' and others declare it 'bad manners' to ski your own line and somehow ruin the slope for others. Isn't it a fact that off-piste gets 'skiied-out' as a matter of course? Just how much consideration should each skiier individually give to other, subsequent users of the slope he's about to ski?

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Red Leon, I think what some are trying to say is that you should try to keep your line fairly tight, adjacent to, but not over others' tracks. That way, you have fresh snow for yourself, yet also leave as much as possible for future sliders.

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Red Leon (and anyone one else who;s wondering), In a vrigin powder field it;s considered good manners to keep your line as tight as you are able. While skliing virgin powder is wonderful, crossing lines can casue a slight jolt as you go from the resistance of the snow to the empty space where someone's skiied, back to the resistance of the snow - it's amazing jus how much that light, fluffy powder snow can slow you down.

Anyway, the idea is you stick to a single line, then the person floowing you skis just to the side, etc etc, and eventually (I'm guessing here) the analogy is that it looks like the furrows of a ploughed field. Once it's reached this state, then I would assume it's ok to start crossing lines as you;re not going to get an uninterrupted line anyway.

Until you;ve had the experience of skiing virgin powder, I'd guess that you wouldn;t be able to understand just why this is of such importance, but once you have, you will. As Cedric's signature tag says (said? - haven;t seen him for a while IIRC),

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davidof,

Thanks for that.

The avalanche-avoidance bit makes loadsa sense and it sounds like good manners to leave some snow for others if possible / practicable given what NBT says about relative resistance etc. But it looks to me (from the photos) like you voluntarily surrendered your 'right' (dangerous word, I know) to ski fresh turns by following Anny's lines - can most people really be expected to be so generous?

Edit: typed FTS when I meant NBT Embarassed

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Not that I have any personal experience of skiing off-piste with the SCGB, but when I asked the rep in Sun Peaks a few weeks ago if he would take a group off-piste (we were talking about Europe), he said he would but would always hire a guide. I assume this is standard practice by the SCGB that should be followed by the reps (but I may be wrong).

A snowHead

PS Lovely photo rob@rar.org.uk!

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

The term "farming" is also new to me, but not the idea. However the only snag is that you then have to ski someone else's rhythm and not necessarily your own. By the time I ever get to it the hill's tracked out anyway, so cutting existing tracks doesn't bother me - I'm used to it. Crying or Very sad

Nick Zotov, I wasn't getting at you particularly, but this idea that all other bodies can be criticised but not the SCGB - surely it's not me that's tetchy! Shock

Oh and BTW - yes I do still feel very unhappy and hard done by over the ad business and leaving me off this year's discount list.

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I wouldn;t necessarily follow the exact curves laid down by somone else - but would keep my tracks as narrow as possible, I think it's only polite as that's what I would hope other people would do.

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nbt, Yes - but I don't think most of the freeriders would want to do twiddly little turns like the super photos wiuld they? I'm always getting told I turn too much - apparently I need fatter, longer skis to stop this tendency! Shocked

After all it is free

fatbob FYI the Ski Club's aim isn't *just* about showing its members around the mountain, it's aim is to try to improve each member's knowledge of skiing and mountaincraft (and sometimes their skiing skills), thus raising the collective knowledge of its members who may then in turn demonstrate admirable snow-user qualities to non-members (a case of "lead by example").

So in that sense, the Ski Club group you saw was probably having an educational moment as much as it was anything else.

Next time, get yr ducks in a row before drawing conclusions.
So there. Hurmph.

Cathy Coins yeah, that's about right. The main purpose of Club reps (from a member's perspective, anyway) is to lead you round a resort on routes you may not have otherwise thought of/known about. While the Club reps I've skied with often have as much experience to impart as a registered guide/instructor, they're not registered guides/instructors. Hence the requirement for a guide. But then having a guide is just good mountain practice, something which the Club is keen to reinforce!

easiski, Hmm. Actually, I am thinking of leaving the SCGB this year (I'm not sure it fits my own needs these days - I managed to have a top-notch instructional holiday, for example, without it wink

) - so I have no particular axe to grind. I am just not too keen to see one one set of skiers knocking others. Particularly when I want to ski in harmony with both. My regular skiing buddy is a keen SCGB member, after all.

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I often ski with a qualified guide from Alpine Experience and they encourage us to follow the tracks for a number of reasons, including:
=> The guide sets a turn radius and a speed appropriate for the snow conditions and the groups capabilities.
=> Often there is only a narrow strip of nice snow and everyone in the group wants nice snow.
=> Safety, occasionally the guide insists that we ski a particular line, eg along a ridge, as he is not happy about the snow stability away from the ridge. Often there is just a narrow strip of wind blown soft snow between Sking adjacent to his tracks in easy conditions is good training for the constrained conditions.
=> Leaving nice snow for other skiers.

A couple of years ago we skiied wonderful snow down the sunny bowl from top of Signal to base of Col button lifts in Val d'Isere. By following the previous person's tracks several groups each got fresh powder and each person got over 100 turns. By 10am the centre of the bowl lookes as if a comb with 50 teeth had zigzigged down. On other occasions I have seen similar slopes where as few as 10 people have messed around with different lines, thus spoilting the slope and the powder for everyone else.

Help!!

Sheep Club of GB

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