Help put my mind at ease. (now sorted)

A snowHead

Gidday all.

I need some reassurance that my Karmas will be OK.

Took my new Karmas to Ellis Brigham Castleford on Sat to get my Marker 1400 comps taken from my P3s and mounted on the new Karmas.

Went through the nervous period of watching someone free mount the bindings through the window to the workshop.

Skis came out of work shop. Sh*t!!!! Toe binding on right ski is on an angle basicly 2mm out.

They took the ski back into the workshop, pluged the holes, redrilled and remounted. Bindings now look straight.

Where I have a problem is that with the new holes only 2mm away from the old plugged holes, are the bindings not going to pull and will it affect the ski.

I ski quite aggressivley and am on the far to heavy side of the weight range (97kg)

A snowHead

kiwi1,

I never like the idea of plugs on skis but plenty of people here mount and re-mount. Agree that you could do without the bodge job but if it doesn't work then EB have messed up the fitting. I'd log a call/letter/e-mail and get it acknowledged that you are concerned, in writing so you can go back and get the cost of a replacement or something later if need be. Its their mess IMV.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

If the holes have been properly plugged the ski should be as rigid and almost as strong as it was before, I'd think.

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My local shop told me that 5mm gap was ok. 2mm seems V close to me.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I'd be a bit worried as the screws are 4mm, from memory, so moving 2 mm would mean plugging the hole, then redrilling into the plug. (saying that, if they used helicoils then you'll be fine)

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gsb, Kiwi1's worry is that the screws are half into the old plugged hole. It's possible that he needs to talk to the ski manufacturer and then writing to EB with his concerns. In theory I've read that a 'proper' repair is as strong as the original ski . . . but finding the definitive definition of a proper repair is a bit of a Sisyphean task. Ultimately he may need insist on EB warrantying the repair as 100% to manufacturers strength (in writing) or insist that they replace the ski.

Any consumer lawyers out there to advise on his rights under Consumer Rights, Trades Descriptions etc.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Thanks Guys. Spoke to Mustco (volkl disti) they pretty much said what you guys have. EB put it in writing when I left the shop so if anything happens, I've got that.

gsb, the problem was that the toe was on an angle pointing in so if the holes were out by 2mm, the front of the binding as about 5-7mm out and if they were moved by 2mm the new drilling would be on the plugs themselves.

I'm out on the 25th for a week so I'll see how they go.

I guess the thing I'm upset about is that my skis have been messed about and I'm very protective of my skis.

After all it is free

kiwi1, really sorry to hear about your experience - you have my sympathy because if I'd taken a lovely, new, straight out the packet pair of skis to a professional and paid good money to have the bindings fitted I would be absolutely gutted and very annoyed if they messed it up.

I am a lawyer of sorts, but not a consumer lawyer, so can't really advise you with too much accuracy on this, but if it were me in your situation, I would be very keen to do all I could to get a new replacement pair of skis from Ellis Brigham, and I would be phoning and speaking to managers, backing up what they said with letters confirming it (get proof of posting, keep a copy), trying to get Volkl to put some weight on them too perhaps. And I'd be doing this as soon as possible, and going as far up in the company as needed to get someone who had the authority to do something.

If it is not too far away, a Saturday trip (lots of potential customers overhearing) back to the shop to speak in a polite and friendly but quite loud, carrying and insistent voice to the manager, explaining in some repetitive detail what happened and how you feel let down and would really like them to show some good will and replace the skis free of charge can work wonders. Always best to stay polite though, always works best. (they can always sell the first pair as second hand if they think they are really good enough condition)

Have to say from what others have said above, the idea of hacking around on them at speed sounds a bit dodgy if they could be weakened - what if they snap on a particularly fast and intereting point near a sheer drop? Possibly being a bit over-dramatic, but you never know.

Got to take my hat of to Ellis Brigham.

Gone to the top to get my little problem sorted. Their attitude was that they wouldn't be happy if it had happened to them.

They are in the process of trying to find a stiff all mountain twin to replace the Karmas for me.

Thanks for your help guys and a big thanks to Ellis Brigham for their help.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

kiwi1, Karmas or Public Enemies would be my suggestion, if they have any.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Wear The Fox Hat, Thanks mate. Really want the Karmas. I went for them as I was looking for a stiff all mountain twin.

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kiwi1, if they are being that helpful, I'd insist on like for like replacements. after all you spent ages testing various skis and the Karma's were the one you chose!

they did appear to stock them at some point, so they must have a relationship with Volkl.

http://www.ellis-brigham.com/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/700423||@cSkis@bVolkl|0|user|1,0,0,1|5|

regards,

greg

Glad things are being sorted out. I should have engaged brain before I typed earlier, as the 5mm was for remounting on a race plate as I suppose you can't plug them.

You know it makes sense.

gregh, Yup, thats pretty much what I want also. They are speaking to the disti in the UK to try and get a pair in 177cm. If not I'd have to wait until Sept till the 2007 line come out and they reckon they'd give me a demo pair to take away for a week on the 25th.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

If they are trying to make good the cock-up then hats off to them... credit to both parties on this for an amicable resolution......hopefully..

A snowHead

kiwi1, nice to know the spirit of customer service is alive and well... somewhere Smile

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Understand what you're saying Matthew but any company that holds their hands up, says they are sorry and sorts the problem out as EB have, then they are OK with me.

You're right, they should not have free drilled when there was a jig in the group for the Karmas. I would have waited until it could have been sent to the shop.

I guess at the end of the day it's a learning curve and ski techs don't start out as experts, just wish the lesson hadn't been learnt on my skis.

Trust me if you knew the lengths Ellis Brigham had gone to sort this out, you'd be as impressed as me.

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Fair enough, obviously that's the main thing as far as it matters to you. I'm still a bit amazed though: if they brought them out to you and you spotted the drilling mistake then if the work was done by a rookie then it was obviously never checked by a supervisor or if it was done by an expert then, um, why did they get it wrong? I mean sure, you spotted it, they agree it's wrong and bent over backwards to help but if it's that wrong, why did they even bring them out to you? - presumably they wouldn't have stopped you from walking out the door if you hadn't spotted they were wrong?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Viceversa, I'm not so sure, bear in mind that EB only admitted it had made a mistake after kiwi1, had spotted the error, we're not talking about an obscure error but a basic mistake of inacurate allignment, something that should not happen in a good ski shop.

That said EB do seem to have realised this which is why they're going to such efforts to rectify the situation, looks like poor technical staff but good customer service to me

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Just wanted to put this thread to bed.

What can I say. If you want a company that stands by their work or gear, EB have done it for me. Mounting mistake happened last Saturday. Even though they had no Karma 177s in the group, they found me a pair and had them mounted by last night and a fine job they did too (using a jig this time)
I apreciate that it should not have happened in the first place but, thoughout this experiance I have dealt with all levals of employees at EB who have done all they can and have succeded to rectify a mistake by an individual (who was only trying to help), not the retailer.

Thanks Ellis Brigham for making good the mistake and looking after me. I will happily spend my hard earned cash with you in the future.

After all it is free

Good result and can't say fairer than that to EB

Well done EB

Help!!

Help put my mind at ease. (now sorted)

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