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Why the panic about lifts?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
On reading back through a few archive posts, there seems to be a fairly common theme of panic from newbies (and some not-so-newbies) about lifts... mainly drags & T-bars but also chairlifts.

I'm not sure I understand the problem? Some people seem to struggle with just T-bars, some with T-bars and pomas, some with chairlifts (exits mainly) and several seem to just blind panic about any flavour whatsoever. Maybe it was the 8 years or so of skiing I did first, but I have never understood the problem with drags or T-bars - they pull, you slide up, you get off... The problems some of my beginner friends seem to have is coming to a complete stop at the start of a drag then getting yanked off balance by the startup pull - which indicates to me that they are not getting their weight in the right place. It's far easier to carry a little forwrd momentum onto a poma - just trip the button and as it grabs the cable and the spring pays out, start sliding forwards so that you're not being yanked up to full speed in one hit - far easier. When on the slope, I find that I can often relieve and painful pressure build up on my lead leg by reaching out with my lead arm and then leaning back whilst pulling upwards with that arm locked straight out. sounds odd, but it works for me. If I can get up the (now defunct) foret drag at l'aravet in Serre Che using that technique then I can cope with anything, I reckon!

On getting off chairlifts, the no. 1 problem I see people having is caused by not planting the back foot on squarely on the board whilst standing up to move off. Get that back foot positioned against the outside of the back binding and make sure your toe or heel is not dragging then simply stand up and use the straightening action of your back leg to push yourself away from the chair. Slide to a stop out of the way of the people still coming up the lift... simple... or not?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Perhaps the fear is that if you make a cock-up (either on the way or on exit) you're in full view of others and could cause a pile up. Skullie
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
carled, That's two lengthy paragraphs to describe the 'simple'. I think it's a bit like making a cup of tea. Dead simple to do but when you start to count the maneouvers it is actually quite a tricky thing to do.
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bh1, in the days when I used to be threatened by drag lifts I was more anxious about missing the last lift or having to wade out though a flat powder field.

A flat lift track with soft snow is easy - just stand there and let the lift do the work. What about an icy track with significant camber or downhill sections? Trying to edge on ice to stop the board from sliding off the track always used to get me in my first season.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
That's just my rambling writing style... Smile

In serre che last year, we took a beginner boarder up. He's a national league volleyball player, so he has a bit of balance and we knew he'd pick things up quick... Anyhow, we took him to the beginner lift on the aravet plateau where he had to negotiate a drag first time out... no problem whatsoever - he kept his weight forward, kept his balance and just went up the lift... easy.

He then got cocky and tried the foret drag - approx 5 times faster launch speed - and after 5 attempts at starting off, we had to stop him before the liftie soiled himself from laughing so much... We then took him to the non-detachable chair over at the casse du bouef... exiting from that was an eye-opener... I'd forgotten how fast non-detachable chairs are going at the end myself, so it was quite an entertainment to see this bloke literally get catapulted into a bank of snow...

By day 3, he had no problems with any of the lifts (and he couldn't get down a green run without falling over 13 times on day 1) so it just goes to show if you approach these things with a positive mental attitude (or perhaps a loose screw) then you can conquer anything... snowHead
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I skied for 15 years before I started boarding, so knew how to use all the different types of lifts etc, but with a lot of drag lifts (bearing in mind I'm a small female) they yanked me right off my feet, or lifted me into the air as a kid, and still do as an adult, which poses a problem. Then getting off chair lifts - all very well if you're adept at steering your board in a confined space, but if you're a beginner and sometimes have lapses in control over your board I can see why sliding into and finding somewhere to stop in a small area with a lot of people standing around getting ready to go can be daunting. Not everyone has the same sense of balance either - they may encounter snow conditions they aren't used to at the top of the lift (it's quite often icy), and they might have an instructor who hasn't explained to them properly about how to exit a lift. Like most things, these things take practice. Bit like riding a bike when you're a kid - everyone falls off and gets grazed knees the first few attempts but then they get the hang of it.
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carled, i think you may need to have a bit more sympathy for the nervous newbie on the lifts.. some people arn't as confident as you obviously are..
its a bit like telling someone how to ride a motorbike by saying get on, start it . twist this . let that out. and ill see you back here for lunch..
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Yeah - fair point. I wasn't trying to be condescending about it at all - I just genuinely don't understand why people don't like drags much even when they are experienced. OK, a chair's more fun, but there are several places, for example the skiwelt region, where a quick drag up one hill can save 15 minutes of mucking about to get to the gondola to take you to the same point and yet I have mates who have months of snowboarding experience behind them that STILL won't go near the drag lift even in those circumstances...
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for them practice is everything.. use the ones on a nursery slope at lunchtime when its quiet if they are a real problem.. but i agree with you its a skill that should be aqquired..
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And then there are drag lifts with rocks on the towtrack (I'm thinking Glas Maol poma at glenshee). Hours of amusement, if your watching! I even saw skiers come off last year.
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Quote:

I have mates who have months of snowboarding experience behind them that STILL won't go near the drag lift even in those circumstances...

I am an elderly female beginner snowboarder, and I don't much like any sort of lifts at the moment, but my (good) snowboarder son complains that drag lifts tend to crush his balls. I wouldn't know, of course. So maybe, just a suggestion, drag lifts are harder if you have bigger ones? Just a suggestion,you understand....
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
pam w, Hi Pam, best keep ages quiet here, it makes it more fun. Don't know about size comparison but I find lifts uncomfortable, though you are talking to someone who spends summers on mountain bikes. Make of that what you will Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
some people on here think 23 is elderly ...
i remember doing a long t-bar somewhere in st anton, and aside from not being that comfortable after a while, its the boredom that kills..
then u lose concentration and especially later in the day your board goes off on its own down some big groove you hadnt noticed..
natch you try to tell your mates you wanted off get off halfway up Confused
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
CANV CANVINGTON, and some are elderly at 23 rolling eyes
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
CANV CANVINGTON
Quote:

u lose concentration and especially later in the day your board goes off on its own


That's it - boredom, thinking I'm OK and drifting off in my own little drag lift world, then BAM off I tumble. Was at Saas Fee last week and was sh1tting myslef about T bars and buttons, but the T bars are simple and the buttons at Saas are so slow and on a cable rather than a long bar that they too were so easy, that I only fell once and that was because I was playing with me gloves.
I'd say it's a case of mind over matter.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I struggle with the T-Bar lifts - like you say its starting moving from a standing start tends to drag me around if I don't get the balance right; no option to start moving at the start of the T-Bar at MK for example. Added to that is the huge queue behind you which tut tuts (or you imagine they will, they rarely do) if you fall off, and then add the funny fellow skiier who told me to "MOVE" and skii'd over my board when I fell off last time, and you have quite a stressful situation! Oh yes, and then add the "oh so cool" ski lift operators who make me feel like a big clumsy uncool beginner, and it all gets difficult!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The heavier you are the lesser the effect that the absorbtion spring will have. I try and pill a button 18 inches past my bum and then grip the pole strongly with bent arms. Still usually results in hilarity.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
as its rolling out skate a bit to get yourself moving..
if you do fall on a t bar or button lift getting out of the way is the very least you can do ..
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Here's a tip for T-bars at least -- go on with a skier. They may not like it, but you'll find they stablise the thing.

Never pull with your arms -- eventually you should be able to use tows without using your arms at all.

And, RELAX (easier said than done I know).
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
CANV CANVINGTON wrote:
as its rolling out skate a bit to get yourself moving..
if you do fall on a t bar or button lift getting out of the way is the very least you can do ..


Yup i agree, but it usually takes more than 2 seconds when your legs are above your head, one foot strapped to the board, in the snow - that was all he gave me!
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Looking at this from a different perspective.... is the problem with boarders and lifts the simple fact that lifts are designed for skiers? Can anyone suggest a modification to existing lift technologies to make them easier for boarders to use?
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Put chairs on then?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
have skiers carry you up..?
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I've had this conversation over at winterhighland.com

I think fitting skiers with reins came up at some point.
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I find the best approach is not to worry about it & get on & do it.... there is a horrid drag lift somewhere in the middle of Courchevel, it nearly got the better of me but you have to show them who is boss! Smile

In Lake Louise one of the runs into the back bowls can only be reached by an evil drag (or a long walk!).... you can just see it running up the spine of the pointy hill....



well worth the effort.... it's not that bad when you get the hang of it.
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Honda Kitty, I agree that Lake Louise drag is a bugg*r! But if you can hang on to the yop it's well worth it. It's the only thing that made me go anywhere near it.
Perhaps that'sthe answer to the dreaded drag. Remind yourself of the reward that awaits you at the end of it, you'll habg on no matter what!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I had two reasons:

1) Because my Husband & Son were too scared to do it (initially) and I wanted to be the first (not competitive lol!) out of the 3 of us to master it.

2) Because we got to LL early one morning & were first up the chair lift and I wanted first tracks in the powder on the other side (which I got!) Very Happy

Very Happy
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

hang on to the yop

TOP, even!!! wink
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Honda Kitty, That drag lifts a pussy cat compared to some I've been one (pun slightly intended). Snow looks great though! it was a bit crunchy in february.

The west wall poma at cairngorm was launching people skyward last week with assorted skiers & boarders ending up coming off (me included).
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I have to concur that the LL Poma is a 'pussy' comared to the 'catapault' (he he he) in Courchevel... which was proper evil...... still wouldn't let it get the better of me! these things need to be shown who is boss Very Happy
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Well, if we're playing 'bragging rights'....



that's me at top of the same lift in LL... was a little colder in 2003! (yes, that is ice all round my face!)
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I am wondering if any boarders have attempted or made the evil drag in La Plagne. The one at the bottom of the black run below Aime 2000. Can't remember its name just its reputation. I think it is due to be replaced this summer.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Mouth, My mate who is a very good skier with years of experience said it was indeed 'difficile' on ski's so I guess a board is out of the question. Confused You could try next weekend but if you do come off it is a walk through the deep powder in the woods Shocked
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boredsurfin, mmm and I have met your mate and seen him ski. Madeye-Smiley I wouldn't make it past first post on my board so will give it a miss until next season.
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Mouth, Detais of the new relacement lift for boucletts 1 and II are here
http://romain.guigon.free.fr/ANG_News.htm
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I remember watching my boarder mate go almost all the way up one of the poma drags at Serre Chevalier on his back. he fell early but clung on for dear life all the way up to the top. I managed the same poma on a board, albeit rather nervously. it was the pistes that got me Wink
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hamilton, Hey you! cool pic! yes I think you had it colder by the look of it!

Smile

Does anyone know the poma that starts near the Pyramides in Courchevel?

I swear I'm going to return one day & burn it down for what it did to me Very Happy like they do with speed cams Very Happy
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I think my nemesis was the 'double' draglift, I think somewhere off Courchevel 1650 - two 'fast' drags side by side, with a launch strip (one of those short magic carpets). The lift runs for a km or so... it's a long walk of shame when you bail.
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hamilton, At 1650 you have runs of either side. In La Rosiere there is a long drag over too Italy and if you fall off you have to ski pack down the drag and start again, which is quite difficult when both are running
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