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The Arlberg Snow Report 2019/2020 (Oktober Warm Days till Nov )

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Ahrlenmähder is probaby a worse option than just going round to Ulmer Hütte -> Steissbachtal or down the Schindler motorway -> Steissbachtal. Walking up... nah!
Doesn't really make sense
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Interesting fact (to the best of my research) - St Anton's (not including zurs/lech) newest lift will be situated next door to it's oldest "unrefurbished" lift - valluga t-bar 50 this year i believe.
https://www.lift-world.info/en/lifts/11474/datas.htm (for the geeks)

I've only noticed those horror queues at Arlenmahder since Flexi was built, surely a chair back up to Galzig could also work from there ? (Obv never going to happen)
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@hsdee, thanks for the info. Yep, a geek, well a ski geek.
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hsdee wrote:

I've only noticed those horror queues at Arlenmahder since Flexi was built, surely a chair back up to Galzig could also work from there ? (Obv never going to happen)


Or route to St C...
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Sitter wrote:
Or route to St C...


That would n't be the worst idea ever would it, small drag lift could make that happen. 200m long 50 up. Who want's to tell the AB ?
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One lift out, one lift in is the planning regulations and even then its a tough call to get a new lift, which one would you lose?

PS.....Its a 100m 10 minute walk to the road and then flag down a taxi, but don't tell anyone. wink
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Markymark29 wrote:
One lift out, one lift in is the planning regulations and even then its a tough call to get a new lift, which one would you lose?

PS.....Its a 100m 10 minute walk to the road and then flag down a taxi, but don't tell anyone. wink


The drag from the car park up to Flexen/Valfagehr...

Always thought they should've relocated the rope tow that used to take you up towards the road underpass to get to the old Rendlbahn and put it on that horrible flat section after the sharp right hander at the bottom of the home run towards the road bridge (and either made that road bridge wider, or keep it clear of snow, I'm surprised nobody's been pushed over the side on to the road yet...).
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The 'new' run out from Rendl R1 is pathetic compared to the old run out, in which there were a couple of steepish curves and you finished with a flourish in a cloud of snow spray at the bus stop after blasting over the wide bridge! Very Happy
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Quote:

The drag from the car park up to Flexen/Valfagehr...

@Sitter, The lift might get busy, maybe there's a staircase though, I always just jump on that drag.

Never had an issue with the bridge at R1, if you max out the bend Toofy Grin you can generally get almost to it, main issue seems to be boarders walking across and not giving way to skiers coming behind.
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@Markymark29, "....if you max out the bend" - watch out for the rollers! Then there are, as you say, boarders on the bridge and various flotsam poling and trudging. Finally, across the bridge, you have to navigate the clutches of skiers socialising in the small area outside the base station.
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Schindlergratumlaufbahn Fotos

https://www.alpinforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=991&start=4650#p5213947
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Interesting foundations on the towers. More used to seeing the tower anchored to a concrete footing set in the ground. Not an engineer, but it looks like some of the towers will put significant torque on the foundations, subjecting one side to tension. I understand that concrete performs better under compression than tension, but I guess the designers know that and have figured it out...
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Markymark29 wrote:
Quote:

The drag from the car park up to Flexen/Valfagehr...

@Sitter, The lift might get busy, maybe there's a staircase though, I always just jump on that drag.

Never had an issue with the bridge at R1, if you max out the bend Toofy Grin you can generally get almost to it, main issue seems to be boarders walking across and not giving way to skiers coming behind.


That bridge is always a halfpipe due to its narrowness, very difficult to walk over as a boarder as the natural tendency is to slide down in to the centre. Skiiers snowploughing over the bridge add to this. Add to this the usual congregation of skiers at the end of the bridge stopping to take their skis off it's a bit of a mess. Should the boarders give way to the skiers tho, the end of piste sign is before the bridge...
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You know it makes sense.
@Sitter, Agreed not ideal for boarders, maybe it should be kept clear and introduce a moving carpet along it, have often thought if I was a boarder i'd hop over the barrier on the bend, cross the road and walk down the footpath towards the lift station rather than use the bridge.

@davidthornton, Yes the bumps can catch you out. People taking skis and boards off immediately after the bridge is a bit crazy really, not always possible to snowplough the bridge if its icy and quite often come off it quite quickly, plenty of bumps next to the lift entrance too to negotiate. Once saw quite a bad pile up there.
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Markymark29 wrote:
One lift out, one lift in is the planning regulations


If only that had applied to Flexenbahn and directly in situ to Albona. Alas.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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@hsdee, It did with Albona, they took A2 out to construct the new gondola. I actually preferred the old A2 to the new one. Not sure about Flexenbahn, that is actually 3 lifts in 1 - not sure that they took 3 out elsewhere but thats the general principle, the Flexenbahn was years in the planning so perhaps they got special dispensation for that one. I'm glad they did actually, its a great addition to the Arlberg imo, despite many people on here apparently having issues with it.
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Auenfeldjet was no replacement. And new Schindlergratbahn obviously is not a one in, one out either, since it is 500 meter longer
One in, one out is not accurate.
It is about new m2 construction space. Below a certain m2 construction is still possible.
But e.g. new pistes are virtually impossible because of this.
Flexenbahn/Trittkopf: replacement of buses was taken into account
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@Langerzug, good point, Flexenbahn/Trittkopf, yes anticipated reduction of road link traffic and thus pollution. Good reasoning, although if the increase in skiers using the link negates the original hope.
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@davidthornton,


Flexenbahn is categorised a transit lift ..
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@stanton, Thanks for the Schlindergratbahn update photos. As a strictly winter visitor it's quite striking to see the area without snow cover.
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@davidthornton, @Langerzug, the argument that somehow the Flexenbahn would be more environmentally friendly than the buses was always nonsense. If that was the main reason it would have been much better to buy 4 or 5 electric / hydrogen buses to run a shuttle, cheaper and less emissions. The main reason was to link the St Anton and Zürs with a lift. The Arlberg could then promote itself as the largest ski area in Austria and if the Rendl Kappl link ever happens (I know unlikely now) the largest area in the alps.
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@munich_irish, the environment may have been one of the justifications, whether warranted or not, but I suspect road safety also played a part. The Flexengallerie is pretty tight in places: it was always exciting to be in the front of one of the blue buses and meeting a truck or bus on a corner.

Bottom line: it was more likely done for bragging rights: my ski area is bigger than yours.
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@ulmerhutte, the road safety thing could have easily been sorted with traffic lights, all the other traffic would have had to work around the bus timetables. However there never was any interest in doing this. The powers that be wanted a big shiny lift and that's what they got. Blah about being environmentally friendly was simply puff for the tourist brochures.
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@munich_irish, traffic lights would cause major traffic jams, especially in weekends. Not a good idea.
Apart from safety, the fragility of the Flexenroad is an ongoing concern. Repair and reconstruction is also an ongoing thing. As such the damage done by the many buses were a major issue.
There have even been real plans to build a completely new tunnel, the so called Erzberg Tunnel to connect Stuben with Zürs. But this will not come, too expensive.
Main initiative to build Flexenbahn came from Skilifte Zürs and Stuben. Especially Zürs was already suffering for many years. They hoped that the connection to St.Anton would bring more guests. Not sure whether the current situation is really helpfull...
(By the way; earlier this week there was an official meeting (on the spot) to discuss and judge the plans for the adaptations of the Madloch-route...might very well be the last green light still needed to go ahead...)
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@Langerzug, the point is not how practical or otherwise traffic lights might have been but that any "environmental" justification for the new lift was simply greenwash. The lift probably does make Zürs a more attractive place to stay as it is now easier to ski St Anton but perhaps reducing the cost of staying there and opening a few more bars and restaurants would have the same effect......

Do the Lech environmental group have the same sort of objections to changes in the Madloch area that they do with the proposed new lift at Oberlech? As far as I know there are no nature reserves between Madlochjoch and Zug
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St Anton - Zürs link had been talked & various plans worked on for decades ….. Way before anyone was into environment issues...


The main reason it never happend was Political (between East & West Arlberg) and Money ... Once the Auenfeldjet link was built (Warth) it was game on for St Anton & Stuben !!!

Re: New Lifts .. Do not underestimate "die Umweltschützer" ..

A Viennese Landscape Gardner who has never visited St Anton managed to Halt the Rendl - Kappl Project .. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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@munich_irish, you are mixing things up.
In Oberlech, there were/are two issues, 1:the fact that the planned Grubenalpbahn will cross a small corner of the Gipslöcher naturereserve (this has been resolved already). 2. A group of inhabitants around Gasthof Mohnenfluh that are opposing simply because the new lift is going to spoil their very pretty view.
For Madloch, it is about a obligatory formal step in the procedure. (But which can have definitely very practical consequences)
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@Langerzug, I dont think I am. There is a fair amount of opposition to any expansion of ski infrastructure for whatever reason. I was unsure whether the "Bürgerinitiative" had any interest in the Madloch area, perfectly possible not but sure there will be other people who will. I am a member of the Alpenverein who are pretty much opposed to any ski expansion and will often take legal action against such proposals. I have no idea whether anyone will object to the proposed changes.
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You know it makes sense.
@munich_irish you are absolutely mixing up things here.
In the end all things -in life- are related...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The new interactive map show the new schindler lift ending at the old point (on top of schindlerspitze) and not at the top of the Valluga T bar. I assume that is just an error on the map?.
What ever the discussions of the Mattun Piste,(another route down to St anton is needed somewhere) is the blue run to Rauz now going to be even more appallingly crowded. This run was criminally dangerous that last time I was on it, never mind the increase in capacity to schindler?
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@mcg, there is an updated map around somewhere but I guess the map on the website simply has not been updated yet, they will probably want to make it as part of some "new this season" publicity blah. Not sure this will make much difference to the lower "blue" section of Valgefahr, the upper section probably will be busier. Most people who only want to ski the blue section would use Arlenmähder as they do currently. I know I was not there in the really busy weeks but every time I skied this run last season it was no busier than it had ever been, but this has been an endless cause of debate as clearly there are times when the whole place gets very (too) busy.
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stanton wrote:
2019/2020 Piste & Lift Map

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@mcg, Look at the Deutch version..they always do first and also a lot more info is there.
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stanton wrote:
@mcg, Look at the Deutch version..they always do first and also a lot more info is there.


maybe on the print version. The Interactive version shows the old end point!
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@Markymark29, Albona 2 was great, and it's a shame one can no longer lap the top of stuben using it, sking back to raus every time is rubbish. I question how much traffic stuben village has lost because of this, though when one centre of the village stuben hotel lunchstop ripped me 17 euro for a bowl of veggy soup last winter it's not helping to encourage people back down there.
I still cannot fathom out why they did not just replace A1&2 with a fantastic chair or (if they really had to) gondola and improved the parking down there instead of trying to make Raus a hub. oh well. tis what it is.
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I think I remember reading that Albona 1 is to be replaced by a new Stuben-Alpe Rauz gondola in future.
But maybe this will be combined with a new Valfagehrbahn too, hence the waiting?
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How long before we are able to fly into Innsbruck and can do the interconnect from the airport to St Anton? I wonder how long that would take to ski?
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Langerzug wrote:
I think I remember reading that Albona 1 is to be replaced by a new Stuben-Alpe Rauz gondola in future.
But maybe this will be combined with a new Valfagehrbahn too, hence the waiting?


That is a Negative..

Albona 1 Chair will be upgraded next summer.
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Upgraded like being replaced, or like getting a new path?
I always liked Stuben, but as it is, I think Stuben doesn’t participate from the new lifts
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stanton wrote:
Albona 1 Chair will be upgraded next summer.


They should then put in an albona 2 along the route of the original albona 2 (which was a single chair !) upto the little restaurant on the ridge. yey!

https://www.lift-world.info/en/lifts/16776/datas.htm
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