 Poster: A snowHead
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I have just started looking into a ski tip for 2 families to USA or Canada next Easter and I am amazed at how much lift passes cost int the USA. We paid £700 for a pass in Les Arc per family and it seems to be at least three times the price in the USA.
Any tips for getting a better deal?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Epic or Ikon pass dependinv where you are going. Breakeven on a base season pass is less than 4 or 5 days and kids start at $159
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thank you. The epic pass would be £2114 for 2 adults and 2 kids compared to £700 for Les Arc - is it really that much better in the USA?
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Well Vail ticket window prices are over $200 per day for walk up adults so you judge. Forget what it costs you in Europe the market is different.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Is the extra cost worth it, in term of better service and pistes? The number of runs and Km of pistes isn't much different so why so much?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Better service yes. Km of piste no. Kinda not the point although there are some very good groomer resorts just not the size of 3v etc.
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America is a very rich country and lift tickets always feel expensive to poorer Europeans and Brits and their weaker currency.
Just stick it on a creditcard or get a loan.
It is worth the extra to ski the lighter, deeper, softer US snow.
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^^ What a stupid statement
At this point you have no way of knowing if it will have snowed in the 3 weeks before go there
And when it does dump, it will be skied out by 11am
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Americans living close to mountains have season pass which is much better value for the use they get. Or they're rich and rock up with no compunction about lift price
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It is possible for much cheaper lift passes through promotions etc . Maybe best bet is go with tour operator who may have discount on lift paas
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| A tiny portion of America is very rich and lift tickets always feel expensive to most Americans and poorer Europeans and Brits and their weaker currency. |
FIFY
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It is true that lift passes cost more in North America. Ikon or Epic passes can be a good value depending on where you want to go. Nobody pays full price; there are deals which can provide a substantial discount...but it’s still more. Other differences: food in NA costs as much or more and isn’t as good or as widespread; much less b&b/half board style lodging in NA; lodging facilities aren’t as well constructed in NA and therefore are louder; lift systems in NA are more chairlift-based; much less snowmaking in NA but also less need for it; most skiing in NA is below treeline; way less smoking here. C’mon over anyway, it’s just as fun but different.
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@clareholyoak, shop around. Some resorts offer free or deeply discounted tickets for kids if you book accommodation through the resort office, for example. Another trick: offers are sometimes made through UK tour operators that aren't available to US residents. We have three sons, all now in their early 20s, and we have never paid the official ticket price in 10 or more trips over there.
My usual strategy is to check out both resort websites and specialist UK operators like American Ski Classics and Ski Independence. When I'm down to a shortlist of 2-3 resorts, I also phone up the resort: invariably, prices are lower if you call than if you book online. I finally check out the big package operators. You need to check out the all-in cost, as sometimes cheaper passes might be tied to expensive accommodation. For background, the big operators have won about 10% of my bookings, with the rest being equally split between direct resort bookings and UK based North American specialists. I have never found a better deal in NA through sites like Expedia or by going straight to a hotel operator.
If the lift passes seem expensive, console yourself with the knowledge that accommodation is likely to be dramatically cheaper than in the Alps - particularly if you choose a resort with big summer trade like Jackson or Whistler. And, if that's your thing, remember that you don't need a guide in North America, potentially saving hundreds of pounds per day.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Whitegold wrote: |
| A tiny portion of America is very rich and lift tickets always feel expensive to most Americans and poorer Europeans and Brits and their weaker currency. |
FIFY |
Most of America is rich beyond the dreams of 99% of the planet.
If the UK joined the US as the 51st state, it would be the poorest state in the entire Union.
Poorer even than places like Alaska, which is just some ice and whales.
The tiny state of California, with only 19m workers, is now richer and bigger than the entire UK economy, with 67m people.
Most folks struggle to grasp how rich America is... and how poor UK and Europe is by comparison.
700 bucks is chump-change to most Americans.
www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/25/britain-is-poorer-than-any-us-state-yes-even-mississippi/amp/
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Whitegold, you are truly just an ignorant puddle of mental diarrhoea  $700 of disposable income to millions of Americans is a fortune; The security of a month's rent, food on the table, essential repairs to the 20 year old rust bucket that manages to bang, sputter and squeak to Walmart to buy the cheapest Chinese produced crap you can get . . . and a whole Christmas for their family . . . You odious, festering, rancid dribble of dick cheese
Sorry @clareholyoak, you are probably unaware of the high esteem we attribute to the Turd Tongued T**t's 'dags'
Yup, sorry US lift prices are usurous, especially at the larger venues, some of the smaller hills are better value (I ski at Powder Mountain, Utah, but that is a bit of quiet backwoods with little if any ambience and an arcane lift system. As posted above, the multi resort passes are some of the better values but still as you've found, a bit eye watering. There are two other options, again as above, see what the TO's are offering to get Europeans over here . . . or, select an area or resort and look at the season pass prices, they will at the moment be the best price and as long as you come for more than a week, will be much cheaper than day tickets.
There are discounts available from some retailers in local towns but they now often required some sort of prior purchase. Decide where you might like to go and then hit the Web and start digging. There are some gems both in price and resort 
Edit for split infinitive.  (Hurtle has a finite number of conniptions prior to violence  )
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Poster: A snowHead
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US (and Canadian to some degree) lift passes are expensive but do look on-line and buy as EARLY AS POSSIBLE! They do knock considerable % off for buying months ahead.
There is one big difference not mentioned so far - the concept of "bowls" in Vail etc. means that once up a lift you can ski ANYWHERE inside the bowl that is not fenced off. You are NOT confined to a narrow piste as in Europe. You can ski a much wider area.
So yes, the number of kms or miles of ski runs looks a lot less but you can ski anywhere in wide areas without going off-piste - so increasing the effective number of runs and variety. This is because they patrol the entire bowl area, clear any avalanche risk, groom some runs every day but leave others untouched - great when there's fresh snow - and as long as you observe the outer limits and gates and marked/fenced off areas, your insurer will regard this as "on piste" and cover you.
But their lift passes are undeniably expensive and especially when you consider that the majority of lifts are chair lifts (bitter in cold weather) with very few cable cars or bubbles, their height range is typically less than European resorts (say 7-11000 feet and often much less) but also many US skiers get far fewer holidays and come up at weekends so they feel the pain a bit less (as they don't tend to go for long holidays in my experience) but by buying a season or Epic pass or similar, they can ski throughout the season when time/weather permits and do a day here, two days there, and it then works out as better value for them.
One other piece of advice - check you are not there on any US public holidays. We got caught out in Whistler in January 2016 when Presidents Day in the US occurred during our stay - the lift queues were enormous (45 mins to get on the base lift) - as many US folks had driven over the border!
PS Let's not get into debates about society, cost of living, US vs the world, Trump etc ... the US has many problems, many are poor and disadvantaged, heaven help you if you lose your job and need your private health insurance from your job and so on ... but many other standard expenditures can be much lower than the UK ... food, clothing, cars, housing etc. Not totally imperfect or perfect.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Ashridge, you are not "confined" to a narrow piste in Europe. Nothing stopping you from skiing outside the markers into the (often massive) terrain between pistes. As countless numbers do every day in European resorts (when snow is good).
Yes you have to be cogniscent if snow condition and avalanche risk, but there wil still be many quite safe ways to go. In high risk days they tend to close lifts serving more dangerous terrain anyway
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The US is proud of its capitalism. The price is set to exclude the majority. It certainly is not linked to the extent and quality of the infrastructure. We're rather more inclusive over here and don't seek to limit traffic by price.
Whether or not it's worth the asking price to ski a relatively deserted hill is subjective.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Without reopening the which is better debate (they’re both skiing and skiing is fun!) on Europe skiing off the side of a piste isn’t ‘a bit off piste’ or ‘sort of off piste’. It’s off piste end of. Not controlled or patrolled. And not covered on a lot of insurance policies. Accidents and avalanches can and do occur very close to the marked runs.
If a large European area took the NA approach of including all terrain inside the resort boundary it would be a huge approach and no doubt costs would rise.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Val Desire wrote: |
| .... The price is set to exclude the majority. It certainly is not linked to the extent and quality of the infrastructure. |
Evidence?
That's nonsense - in the US ski resorts are commercial concerns, that's it. There's no policy to "exclude the majority".
There was a time when "the majority" in the UK were effectively excluded from skiing because our economy was very weak.
You can pay all sorts of prices for lift tickets in the US, it depends what you want. Like Europe, some places are fancier than others The infrastructure is... different. You will generally find better (higher capacity) lifts in fancy European resorts, but then you'll also find the grooming significantly less sophisticated, and as pointed out, no patrol / control of areas outside the piste. You will mostly not have free "ski hosts" or speed cops. It's just different.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I didn't realise this would cause such a debate! Thank you for useful tips on how to get discounted tickets.
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| clareholyoak wrote: |
| The epic pass would be £2114 for 2 adults and 2 kids compared to £700 for Les Arc - is it really that much better in the USA? |
It's not really a case of being better or worse, it's just the price the market will support in each region so the price that gets charged.
Yes the US does generally give you a patrolled ski area while Europe gives you patrolled pistes - but that only makes a difference for the probably 10% of skiers who go off piste, not the 90% who spend all their time on piste.
I skied a week this season in the PdS with a group (of pure piste skiers) over from the US and they took some convincing that yes, that WAS the full area pass and yes that WAS for the whole week, not just the weekend, and yes everything on the map WAS one ski area and covered by the one lift pass. About the only difference they reported between US/Europe was lift etiquette - but they soon understood it was just the way it was and to push through with the best of them. 
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clareholyoak,
For Vail resorts you can buy the Epic Local (season) Pass for "only" $699 for adults (& less for kids). If you could go for 2 weeks that works out at decent value (similar price to 2 weeks in the 3 Valleys).
Is USA "better" than Europe? It all depends what you are after and there have been dozens of debates about it, on here, over the years.
We love it for the (generally) quality snow, tree lined runs (so.. great skiing in all weathers) and particularly the huge variety of runs (ranging from gentle, to steeper, to bumps, glades and extreme runs) in a relatively small area.
I think all skiers should experience the USA at least once in their lives. It really is worth it (IMHO).
The local Epic pass will give you more than enough skiing for a season (never mind a 2 week trip...)
You could also consider the more expensive full Epic Season Pass, which gives you a free week in the 3 Valleys and access to (I think) 20 odd other European resorts for a few days.
Lift passes over there cover far fewer lifts than Europe but it's a case of market forces and supply and demand I'm afraid 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I wonder what the comparison over a season is for number of skiers? Certainly the short queues and empty pistes are what people rave about.
I’ve been in Banff on Easter weekend with fresh snow and locals were calling it busy. It was nothing compared to Europe. And midweek the place seemed empty. Seems logical that fewer skiers will have to pay more for the facilities
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[quote="Mjit"
Yes the US does generally give you a patrolled ski area while Europe gives you patrolled pistes - but that only makes a difference for the probably 10% of skiers who go off piste, not the 90% who spend all their time on piste.
[/quote]
I guess you've not skied in North America very often. It seems to me that vast majority of skiers there use the ungroomed part of the mountain, not 10%. I ski both sides of the Atlantic and it's interesting for me to see how much better the average North American skier is on bumps, in powder and in other difficult terrain but, conversely, how much less refined they look on piste. It's really quite a different sport over there: a quick glance at a rack of rental skis in the States will show countless fat and all-mountain skis while a European hire shop is typically full of slalom skis.
European skiers spend all of their time on piste because, unless you know what you're doing, it can be horribly dangerous. I doubt my experiences are unusual, and I've seen rescue workers recovering the bodies of snowboarders who were killed just a few yards from a piste; I've seen runs where multiple avalanches have come to a halt almost immediately adjacent to a perfectly safe piste that was carefully built just outside the slip-zone; and I've often skied close to a piste with a guide who has cheerfully told me how many fatalities the slope has seen in recent years.
For me and, I think, most others, North America isn't about the queues. It's about being able safely to spend every day of your trip happily mixing the ungroomed stuff of dreams with some beautifully manicured, leg-recovering pistes.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
For me and, I think, most others, North America isn't about the queues. It's about being able safely to spend every day of your trip happily mixing the ungroomed stuff of dreams with some beautifully manicured, leg-recovering pistes. |
This. Which is why if you only like skiing pistes and want countless km of them, Europe remains a better choice. I once had to actively discourage a colleague who was contemplating Fernie for a holiday on such grounds as while I love the place I'd be hard pressed to name more than 4 or 5 groomers.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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"For me and, I think, most others, North America isn't about the queues. It's about being able safely to spend every day of your trip happily mixing the ungroomed stuff of dreams with some beautifully manicured, leg-recovering pistes."
Nail. On. Head. 
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Whitegold wrote: |
| A tiny portion of America is very rich and lift tickets always feel expensive to most Americans and poorer Europeans and Brits and their weaker currency. |
FIFY |
Most of America is rich beyond the dreams of 99% of the planet.
If the UK joined the US as the 51st state, it would be the poorest state in the entire Union.
Poorer even than places like Alaska, which is just some ice and whales.
The tiny state of California, with only 19m workers, is now richer and bigger than the entire UK economy, with 67m people.
Most folks struggle to grasp how rich America is... and how poor UK and Europe is by comparison.
700 bucks is chump-change to most Americans.
www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/25/britain-is-poorer-than-any-us-state-yes-even-mississippi/amp/ |
and yet, 80% of US citizens lives from paycheck to paycheck and would struggle to cover 2000usd unexpected costs
season passes are cheaper in usa than europe.
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You know it makes sense.
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Europe does not need 10÷ employees manning the lifts checking tickets.
In Europe we have automation & we can get on the lifts by ourselves...
American ski areas will self distruct with their prices.
This season in Arlberg huge increase in Americans..most i spoke to said they would ski Austria over USA quality,culture & value were reasons
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Whitegold wrote: |
America is a very rich country and lift tickets always feel expensive to poorer Europeans and Brits and their weaker currency.
Just stick it on a creditcard or get a loan.
It is worth the extra to ski the lighter, deeper, softer US snow. |
Yeah, screw that. I live in the US and I fly to Europe to ski. Breckenridge in Mid-May is $99 - $109 for a day pass with late late season pricing. I can't stomach the prices anymore. Also, the prevalence of the mega passes has made resorts more crowded and I'll take the on-mountain food experience in Europe ANY DAY over the US.
Also this:
"Europe does not need 10÷ employees manning the lifts checking tickets.
In Europe we have automation & we can get on the lifts by ourselves...
American ski areas will self distruct with their prices.
This season in Arlberg huge increase in Americans..most i spoke to said they would ski Austria over USA quality,culture & value were reasons"
Go ski in Europe and you slide down to the Skidata turnstile and go back up the mountain. No college kid scanning passes on paper tickets. Yeah, that's still a thing.
Also, I don't understand the description of Europeans not going off the marked runs. Why not? Unless you are in glacial territory, plenty of people leave the marked runs and ski where they want.
Usury is a perfect description.
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Poster: A snowHead
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"Also, I don't understand the description of Europeans not going off the marked runs. Why not? Unless you are in glacial territory, plenty of people leave the marked runs and ski where they want."
Err... it's not just crevasses that kill off piste skiers. It's the avalanches.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Bergmeister wrote: |
"Also, I don't understand the description of Europeans not going off the marked runs. Why not? Unless you are in glacial territory, plenty of people leave the marked runs and ski where they want."
Err... it's not just crevasses that kill off piste skiers. It's the avalanches. |
Avalanches aren't constrained to Europe. On-piste avalanches happened this year at Taos. Its rare but its a known risk that people take...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Plenty of cheap skiing in the US just not the destination resorts, a Mtn Collective Pass for 410.00$ will get you 4 days of skiing out of Salt Lake with a trip to Jackson Hole to round out the trip that's a decent price. Here in N. ID passes are 300-350 for most of the ski areas for the season 50-60 daily rates. As others mentioned ski and stay deals can cut the cost down too.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ItaloSkier wrote: |
Usury is a perfect description. |
It's just the business model. Cheap passes for regular skiers and locals to drive the volume & get summer cashflow and screw the people who don't plan ahead or are price insensitive. It seems a major problem to me as it's a very large barrier to entry to families who might just want to dip the toe into the sport without a second mortgage but then the resorts charging a premium (some unjustifably in my view given they are nothing special) would say its not their job and that's what smaller feeder hills are for.
I think Europe v N America is a fairly pointless argument, people will always like what is a bit different to their "regular" experience. There's no doubt IMV that tree skiing is just not as good in Europe and equally the US concept of apres ski is risible and lift accessible truly "big" lines are few and far betwen.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| clareholyoak wrote: |
| Is the extra cost worth it, in term of better service and pistes? The number of runs and Km of pistes isn't much different so why so much? |
I've just spent a couple of weeks on a skiing road trip across the Canadian Rockies. In terms of resort skiing I'd say the answer is no. For most holiday skiers I'm not sure there is much difference from European resorts in terms of pistes and infrastructure.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yes, I think we can sit here and argue the merits of both and each side has valid points. I learned to ski in Italy, then truly cut my teeth in the US logging lots of days mostly in CO and some in UT and CA. Now I've switched back to almost exclusively European skiing. I've always been drawn to above treeline skiing - vast open bowls. I love it. I also love being able to go to a place like GM (when the cable car is not on fire) and logging a 6,000 ft vertical just like that. Not to mention apres ski. Its about personal preference, to be sure. That said, planning a last minute trip involves day rates and day rates in Europe are drastically more reasonable than the US. Thank God for the few independent resorts that are out there. That's why I've always loved A-Basin. Europeanish terrain and no big resort corporate feel.
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| ItaloSkier wrote: |
| That's why I've always loved A-Basin. Europeanish terrain and no big resort corporate feel. |
But at the same time most Euros would be significantly underwhelmed by A Basin. First time I skied there I fairly quickly got to the "is that it?" point. A few rickety chairs and a bunch of traversing etc to ski the same faces or narrow bump runs. It's not got big resort corporate feel because essentially it's a mom & pop day hill with the terrain amped up. Now I quite like it (as I do other small US hills) but I'm not sure I'd travel further than driving distance just to ski it.
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That's a good way to put it... "it's a mom & pop day hill with the terrain amped up"
But I get it. Look at the vertical. I think of coming back from Saas Fee and the long runs... look at Felskinn... 7 minutes up and you can ski down almost 3800 ft vertical just like that. Even a smaller resort like Saas Grund can give you a 5,900 foot vertical in just two lift rides.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ItaloSkier wrote: |
Also, I don't understand the description of Europeans not going off the marked runs. Why not? Unless you are in glacial territory, plenty of people leave the marked runs and ski where they want.
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ItaloSkier, you're free to take your own risks and, if something goes wrong, leave behind a grieving family. That's your choice.
But to publicly encourage other skiers, most of whom are likely to have no understanding of avalanch risk, to go off piste with a casual, 'Why not?' is grotesquely cavalier.
There's a world of difference between European off-piste, which is not usually controlled for avalanche risk, and the in-bounds off-piste in most North American resorts which is inspected, blasted and, where necessary, closed.
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I get the attraction expressed by several posters regarding feeling able to ski safely in ungroomed snow in US because whole area secured. But
Without meaning to dismiss dangers, there must be tens of thousands of skiers every day in Winter off piste in Europe. In practice ski resorts close lifts accessing risky in-bounds terrain on high risk days. The original poster mentioned Les Arcs. From the top of the Varet gondola you see skiers (including me) taking every imaginable line and direction down. The "pistes" down from here are serious mogul runs. The serious skiers avoid them like the plague! After a dump this hill is paradise. If the off piste down from here is risky, they close the Varet lift, period.
There is huge risk minimization work done within bounds of European resorts. It is simply not accurate to say that it is top dangerous to ski off to the side of it between pistes.
Most avalanches are happening outside resort boundary or well off beaten track, e.g. Cugnai or Grand Vallon in Val, Mickeys ears in Tignes, Valluga or Rendl in St Anton. If you want to go to US and have a sign saying this ungroomed snow is definitely safe, fine, but you don't have to go to US to ski ungroomed
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FAQ
