 Poster: A snowHead
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| jonflat2 wrote: |
Thanks everone for the advice ...
As a matter of interest, does anyone have any thoughts on the idea of pressuring the outside ski in order to bend it into a tighter arc?
The idea of getting more edge angle on the skis makes sense, but I've also been told by an instructor that it should be possible during a turn to really push through the outside ski, bending it and making the radius tighter, rather than just letting the ski carve on it's built-in radius.
Any thoughts? |
If you want to carve a smooth turn of a tight radius it is more effective to use greater angulation than it is to try to force the turn through increased pressure. Increased pressure will result in chattering skis and loosing grip, increased angulation wil allow the ski to rail around on its edge following the natural radius of the ski at that angle.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nick_C, Just relax the inside leg, keep the legs apart and keep your weight centred and don't worry about how much pressure is on each foot, it'll sort itself out.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
As a matter of interest, does anyone have any thoughts on the idea of pressuring the outside ski in order to bend it into a tighter arc?
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At a given speed and edge angle all you can do is change the relative weight between your two skis (not sure what else it means to "pressure" the outside ski - its not as if you can press against anything) . If you put all your weight on the outside ski then the ski will bend more than if you share it between the skis, this will tighten the the radius. Obviously this is at the expense of some loss of control of the inside ski (and recovery potential if something goes wrong).
I definitely do this when I want to tighten up a carve midway through a turn - I'll drop the hip futher inside and ski more on the outside ski. Incidently noone skis with equal pressure on both skis when carving - what people mean when they say this is "more even" distribution than they used to.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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[quote="jedster"]
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Incidently noone skis with equal pressure on both skis when carving - what people mean when they say this is "more even" distribution than they used to. |
That is a better way of putting what I ment to say. A more even split between the two legs, 60/40 outside/inside.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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surely as you decrease the radius of the turn you increase the centrifugal force thus bending the oiutside ski more.. this will of course decrease the radius of the turn, increasing the centrifugal force thus....etc etc eventually you reach what we in the board world call ..
'skiers being up their own back bottom' 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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jonflat2, the easiest way to carve a tighter slower turn is to have a smaller radius on the ski. Why not try snowblades and move up once you become comfortable carving them on steep terrain.
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| nessy wrote: |
| jonflat2, the easiest way to carve a tighter slower turn is to have a smaller radius on the ski. Why not try snowblades and move up once you become comfortable carving them on steep terrain. |
It's an idea - but I've just "invested" in my first pair of skis, which are sitting in my hallway waiting to be christened!
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jedster,
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get higher edge angles by angulating more/dropping the hip further inside the turn and tipping the feet.
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Do you need to be carrying a bit of speed to get more angulation? If your going too slow and and edge the skis at a higher angle will you fall over (try grounding the footpegs on your bike through a turn whilst travelling at 5mph)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Carving at lower speeds on steeper hills requires bending the skis into a tighter radius. Softer flexing skis combined with a smaller sidecut radius will help. So will using ONLY the outside ski. Do turn all the way uphill. Don't worry about it if you reach a radius that is beyond the ski's ability to carve on steep ice; go ahead and scrape the edges.
If you must scrub off speed by drifting, slide the whole ski tips as well as tails. It's O.K. to go slower on the faster hills, though more fun to go fast, just keep an eye out for the out-of-control skier who isn't going slow, and try to leave a little snow on the hill for me  .
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halfhand, If you angulate you don't fall over as your upper body compensates for the inward lean of the lower body (legs). If you inclinate however, you will fall over once you pass the point of no return.
In fact you can drift your skis ever so slightly (thus scrubbing off speed), but still leave apparently carved turn tracks! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Nick_C, depends entirely on the situation. In high-speed turns on solid ice, racers are still often making the turn purely on the outside ski. That gives maximum pressure against the inside edge of the outside ski. The reason is not so much to bend the ski (very little snow compression on ice) but to help grip. Like in Formula 1, more downward/outward pressure = more grip.
Like here: http://www.ronlemaster.com/images/latest-images/slides/spencer-bc-2004-gs-1.html
I think it's accepted that the best way to tighten the arc is by increasing the edge angle. But as Jedster said, on softer snow the flex of the ski certainly comes into play more. With the Mutix ski coming out next season, Rossignol claim that they can alter the radius of the ski by changing the stiffness - only possible with snow compression.
And bear in mind that anytime you see a carved track, it means that some snow compression has taken place.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Martin Bell, what's the Mutix ski?
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It's one of next seasons skis from Rossignol.
It has interchangeable arms of different lengths that control the stiffness of the ski, and so theoretically the flex pattern and "radius" that the ski makes in the (compressible) snow.
Ski'd said ski a few times last month, it's quite a nice ski. Grippy, versatile. Used it on boilerplate and 25cm deep & steep.
Just to go back a few steps, to tighten the arc, more edge angle will work primarily, but as some have alluded - more "pressure" as well will bend the ski.
Note that pressure is a resultant product, which happens as a result of something else (Force). In this case increased pressure is built up (not applied by you) as a result of increased edge angle, higher speeds, and a higher resisting force between your leg(s) and the ski.
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You know it makes sense.
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The amount of pressure needed to bend the ski will depend on how stiff it is(I would think) so a top end very stiff ski will need a lot of pressure to make this happen, where as a intermediate ski which is more flexible would be more helpful. Yes/no ?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yes!
(stiffness in the longitudinal plane)
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