 Poster: A snowHead
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So it is a report and conclusion based on a single year - 2013/14' s KS 4 results, yet they have applied the absence data from not just the primary school years, but also the years leading up to KS4 -
"from 2010/11,2011/12, 2012/13, and 2013/14 has been used to calculate overall absence rates"
It stands to reason that absences in the years immediately preceding the GCSE year will have a greater impact on the end result than say missing a week of KS1 or Year 5.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My 5 year old's school recorded mine and his mum's wedding as unauthorised!!
The fact that it was in Saalbach was irrelevant.
They said they would report us for a fine, until I pointed out he was under compulsory school age (due to his birthdate) - they didn't know what I was on about and had to look it up.
"Well, don't do it again" they said.
"What, get married?" I said.
And the whole school cheered.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Tbf the situation is now very different to 10m ago, there was very little covid about last August, everyone had been outdoors & holidaying in open spaces, come September when schools went back, there was a massive surge of covid that got worse a month later when unis went back, at this point, no one was vaccinated and thousands of people died as a result of kids going back to school/college.
There is currently another massive surge in covid cases due to various reasons but most of the vulnerable part of the population is vaccinated and deaths are far lower than they were last Autumn, current death rate from covid is about 0.2%, it was 1.2% before vaccinations began.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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New cases taking off from the beginning of September and currently
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Deaths taking off about mid September last year, 14 days after the new cases started to rise but currently, no big increase in deaths from the current rise in new cases, the vaccination program is doing its job.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@stuarth,
Covid taking off in Canada due to the end of summer or kids going back to school?
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@tangowaggon,
Any evidence to link those?
By the way Ontario and Quebec mostly stayed online and numbers "took off" there too at about the same time. And also by the way they went back to school in BC in June 2020 - perhaps you could plot that point on your chart?
BC government maintained that the numbers didn't point to significant school related transmission (and they have more detailed ones than your charts I suspect)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@stuarth, The graphs are the only evidence I present, they are not my own, the data appears to be collated by Wikipedia from various sources.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It is of course the case that a few more days lost in the current climate is neither here nor there.
It's also the case that in normal times, parents who WANT to take their kids out to save a ton of money, are also CERTAIN they learn more culturally, and suffer no ill effects.
As for headteachers (in Wales anyway), there is NO latitude for granting a holiday as 'authorised', however much they may want to.
A pupil with a 90% attendance rate has lost 95 hours of taught time. Teacher-bashers (though I know there are none on SH  ) would be queuing up to complain to heads if little Tamsin lost 95 hours due to Mr Bloggs' sick record.
Just a view...
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Attendance is very important but I feel consistent attendance and punctuality should be rewarded with perhaps one week authorised absence per calendar year.
This could be /is the difference between many, many families affording/ not affording a vitally important family holiday.
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You know it makes sense.
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Attendance is very important but I feel consistent attendance and punctuality should be rewarded with perhaps one week authorised absence per calendar year.
This could be /is the difference between many, many families affording/ not affording a vitally important family holiday.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Charliegolf wrote: |
A pupil with a 90% attendance rate has lost 95 hours of taught time. Teacher-bashers (though I know there are none on SH ) would be queuing up to complain to heads if little Tamsin lost 95 hours due to Mr Bloggs' sick record.
Just a view... |
That's 19 days off though, which would make for a hell of a ski trip but isn't what most family trips entail. 1 week off is over 97% attendance rate.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Brooky wrote: |
Attendance is very important but I feel consistent attendance and punctuality should be rewarded with perhaps one week authorised absence per calendar year.
This could be /is the difference between many, many families affording/ not affording a vitally important family holiday. |
This is my view and argument too.
All three of my kids are bright, are in top sets for Maths, English, triple award science, etc, with excellent attendance. They only have time off if they are properly ill, which is almost never. I don't think a week out of school to ski will do them any damage whatsover.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Timmycb5, completely agree, I would like to think most of us value education & we are not taking kids out to damage their education. I would even be willing to guess that some of these kids that are getting taken out do extra school work in normal school holidays.
Unfortunately people are not allowed to think for themselves as some frankly can't & we are all treated like children
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You can't have one rule for one child and another rule for others.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There was a case on the local news a couple of years ago. A family with 4 children. Ages 6-15. 3 different schools, but the lower ones were feeders for the next.
None of the Schools had the same end of term holidays. Even the summer holidays started and ended different weeks.
Planning holidays was a nightmare for them. To go away at any school holiday meant that at least one of them had to be taken out of school, resulting in a fine. It was always the youngest that had time off, as they, reasonably, concluded this would have less effect on overall education.
Last I heard, the local MP was on the case regarding the fines.
Surely, it would make sense, and be easy to coordinate locally, to have the same holidays? There must surely be tens of thousands of siblings that this could affect?
There was once a time, when most schools were run by local authorities, that school breaks were coordinated. Now they are more independent, the system seems to be broken. Maybe it's time for some official body to oversea this sort of situation again?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@brianatab, all I can say is that we have a 3 school system and all seem to pretty much follow the standard holiday pattern (set at county level I believe).
I always thought it was private schools that tended to have the biggest variation.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Layne wrote: |
@brianatab, all I can say is that we have a 3 school system and all seem to pretty much follow the standard holiday pattern (set at county level I believe).
I always thought it was private schools that tended to have the biggest variation. |
The problems the academy’s they don’t have to follow the LEAs dates. I ended up one year getting very excited when my eldest secondary school holiday dates gave her a full week off before Christmas but then checked youngest and she had to be in school upto the Thursday (ie breaking up a full 6 calendar days later)  . My youngest is autistic, dyslexic and dyspraxic so certainly was then very behind academically so I was not going to take her out of school even though she was in Juniors.
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| Layne wrote: |
| You can't have one rule for one child and another rule for others. |
You can't have different rule for different people, but you could have a rule that says the head can authorise 5-10 days absence if the child's absence record is otherwise exemplary. Like it used to be.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| You can't have one rule for one child and another rule for others. |
You can't have different rule for different people, but you could have a rule that says the head can authorise 5-10 days absence if the child's absence record is otherwise exemplary. Like it used to be. |
That was the case for many years, probably half of my headship time. Then it changed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Charliegolf wrote: |
| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| You can't have one rule for one child and another rule for others. |
You can't have different rule for different people, but you could have a rule that says the head can authorise 5-10 days absence if the child's absence record is otherwise exemplary. Like it used to be. |
That was the case for many years, probably half of my headship time. Then it changed. |
I remember when it was brought it. I was vice chair of governors at my kids school. A year or two before it became the rule, our school wanted to introduce it anyway. I voted against it on the grounds that it would mean some families simply wouldn't be able to afford foreign holidays, and that was likely to be more detrimental in those cases than missing a few days of school.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| Charliegolf wrote: |
| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| You can't have one rule for one child and another rule for others. |
You can't have different rule for different people, but you could have a rule that says the head can authorise 5-10 days absence if the child's absence record is otherwise exemplary. Like it used to be. |
That was the case for many years, probably half of my headship time. Then it changed. |
I remember when it was brought it. I was vice chair of governors at my kids school. A year or two before it became the rule, our school wanted to introduce it anyway. I voted against it on the grounds that it would mean some families simply wouldn't be able to afford foreign holidays, and that was likely to be more detrimental in those cases than missing a few days of school. |
My wife was a Governor. Some parents just took the wee wee. Didn't get permission, went away for 3-4 weeks, that sort of thing. Hence it's better to have a blanket ban and fines.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Layne, yes some families do take the wee wee quite a lot. My wife is an attendance officer and some of the stories are shocking.
I don’t see why a blanket ban is needed though. Especially if you have a strict criteria to even be consider eligible for authorised absence. If, say, your child’s attendance was lower that 97%, you would be eligible and slapped with a fine if you took them out. If your child was on 99 or 100% they why shouldn’t the head have discretion to authorise a week in the right circumstances?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| I don’t see why a blanket ban is needed though. Especially if you have a strict criteria to even be consider eligible for authorised absence. If, say, your child’s attendance was lower that 97%, you would be eligible and slapped with a fine if you took them out. If your child was on 99 or 100% they why shouldn’t the head have discretion to authorise a week in the right circumstances? |
Is that %age per term, year, school lifetime? What %age are you going to set and why. If I have 100% can I take a day, a week, a fortnight off? What happens if a child has 100% attendance but their work is below par or they are misbehaving in school? It's a can of worms.
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| Layne wrote: |
| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| I don’t see why a blanket ban is needed though. Especially if you have a strict criteria to even be consider eligible for authorised absence. If, say, your child’s attendance was lower that 97%, you would be eligible and slapped with a fine if you took them out. If your child was on 99 or 100% they why shouldn’t the head have discretion to authorise a week in the right circumstances? |
Is that %age per term, year, school lifetime? What %age are you going to set and why. If I have 100% can I take a day, a week, a fortnight off? What happens if a child has 100% attendance but their work is below par or they are misbehaving in school? It's a can of worms. |
Yes I can see why it's a can of worms, which is why it should still be down to the Head's discretion.
It's not particularly fair on the pupils (like my kids), who have 100% attendance, behave well and have very high grades though is it? They aren't allowed a week out to something culturally and physically enriching without getting slapped with a fine, when the oik down the road has every other Tuesday off because he doesn't like RE, and nothing is done about it.
I suppose it's the way everything in schools work. The kids that are well behaved and get on with things are totally ignored and overlooked whilst the little 5h!ts who are always disruptive and badly behaved get treated like royalty on the one day a year they behave normally.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| Yes I can see why it's a can of worms, which is why it should still be down to the Head's discretion. |
I should imagine head's are more than happy this burden is not placed on them.
| Timmycb5 wrote: |
It's not particularly fair on the pupils (like my kids), who have 100% attendance, behave well and have very high grades though is it? They aren't allowed a week out to something culturally and physically enriching without getting slapped with a fine, when the oik down the road has every other Tuesday off because he doesn't like RE, and nothing is done about it.
I suppose it's the way everything in schools work. The kids that are well behaved and get on with things are totally ignored and overlooked whilst the little 5h!ts who are always disruptive and badly behaved get treated like royalty on the one day a year they behave normally. |
I don't think that is true or fair.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Timmycb5, one thing having a dyslexic, autistic and dyspraxic daughter has taught me, is that children which could be described like you have described them, are children whose needs are not being met.
I have no doubts if I had left my daughter at the infants school in year one where her needs were most definitely not acknowledged or understood, she would have been seriously acting out at school (not just as soon as she was with me) as well.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
which is why it should still be down to the Head's discretion.
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Leaves it too open to favouritism, bias, abuse - whatever you want to call it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Layne, I’m afraid it is absolutely true. The kids who were badly behaved in my kids school all seem to have managed to achieved “gold” awards by the time they left, whilst those who consistently achieved well throughout their entire school career (not just my kids, btw) were left languishing on silver because they weren’t rewarded for normal behaviour like the naughty kids.
I understand the need to encourage the badly behaved, but when the well behaved kids begin to notice that being good doesn’t get you anywhere, it’s gone too far. And they DID notice.
@NickyJ, I’m not talking about kids with genuine needs. Our school was pretty good at supporting those kids with what they need and I wouldn’t dream to begrudge that. I have two autistic nephews and understand the extra support that can be needed.
I’m talking about kids who don’t have those needs, but who nonetheless are just badly behaved.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
@NickyJ, I’m not talking about kids with genuine needs. Our school was pretty good at supporting those kids with what they need and I wouldn’t dream to begrudge that. I have two autistic nephews and understand the extra support that can be needed.
I’m talking about kids who don’t have those needs, but who nonetheless are just badly behaved. |
The infants school completely missed her SEN needs, we had no idea what was going on but knew something was not right. I was told to my face quite a number of times she “was not SEN”. She now has an EHCP in place which, it sounds like you know, that is no mean feet! The adjacent Juniors school were struggling very badly with a good numbers of children who were badly acting out, they were sadly those with additional needs who were similarly missed by the same school as my daughter but parents did not have the wherewithal to pull their kids out and move to independent for a while like I was exceedingly lucky to be able to do. My eldest suffered due to this if hadn’t been in the situation I was I would have thought similar to yourself.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Timmycb5, though I do know there were other parents who when suggested they should be referred to CAMHS for assessment refused as they didn’t want to have their kids labelled/ admit it to themselves. I do loose sympathy then, as it is much better to understand what is happening and get the adjustments made.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
@Layne, I’m afraid it is absolutely true. The kids who were badly behaved in my kids school all seem to have managed to achieved “gold” awards by the time they left, whilst those who consistently achieved well throughout their entire school career (not just my kids, btw) were left languishing on silver because they weren’t rewarded for normal behaviour like the naughty kids.
I understand the need to encourage the badly behaved, but when the well behaved kids begin to notice that being good doesn’t get you anywhere, it’s gone too far. And they DID notice. |
Not sure if it's the same thing exactly but that silver/gold or stamps stuff is not to be taken too seriously in the three schools my kids have been to.
Anyhow, we digress.
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FAQ
