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What's the legal way to carry other peoples bags?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So we have a group going to Le Grand Massif (Flaine, Les Carroz, Samoens etc). Some are flying into Geneva and some are taking Eurotunnel. What paperwork etc. needs to be done to carry unaccompanied skis and bags by road? We actually have a people carrier / combi van so we usually get on the freight service as there's more sailings and flexibility. Could we set ourselves up to "Ship" our mates bags if they completed the customs declarations or whatever? I don't expect going out to be a problem but I'm concerned about coming back. Especially about making sure they don't pack any alcohol etc.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
You are in the van and you don't trust your friends with what they might put in their bags?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Skid9992003, why would you need customs declarations?

Brexit hasn't happened yet.

If you don't know the people and / or don't trust them, don't carry the kit. Don't ski with them either!
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@Skid9992003, I'm not sure any declarations are going to help much if there's a kilo of heroin in each ski boot. Either trust your friends and take the kit, or don't.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
At the end of the day you are responsible for whatever is in the vehicle you are driving when coming into the UK, there really is no way around that in your circumstances.
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under a new name wrote:
... Brexit hasn't happened yet....
This.

I did have that issue with air travel, a mate asked me to bring some stuff back on my allowance for her. In that case it was outside Europe (so customs hassle), and also air travel, so I knew security were going to ask me the "did you pack these bags yourself". I wasn't about to start lying to people whose job it is to keep me safe, so we agreed to unpack and repack the stuff, so I could answer "yes". Not a particularly nice thing to have to do, but I couldn't see any alternative, and if you're asking someone to carry your stuff, it would be rude to try to avoid this I think.
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@philwig, is correct!
Even when we didn't have open borders customs are only interested in new stuff ie dodging the duty

That said if you were a bunch of blokes and you had bags of ladies lingerie you might have some bother Very Happy
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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chocksaway wrote:


That said if you were a bunch of blokes and you had bags of ladies lingerie you might have some bother Very Happy


Had this once, back in the days when yiu could fly "standby" wife and i had identical cases, one was pulled, wife grabbed one and ran to gate, i waited for the other;
- Is this your case sir?
- yes
- everything in this case is yours and packed by you?
- yes
- could anyone have put anything in the case that you are unaware of?
- no.

Case gets opened and full of ladies clothing, knickers and bras, customs officer looks at me, raises and eyebrow and says;
- are you sure all of this is yours sir?

Took a little explaining and caused much embarrassment!

Doubt you'd get away with it these days though.
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@marcellus, Much the same happened to me on a random check. Lady F thought it hilarious...and it even produced a wry smile from the French security officer.
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I flew to Vancouver in 2000 to meet OH and then spend a week in Whistler with our daughter doing a season instructing. She asked me to bring her laptop and all was fine till I was asked to turn it on at security. I was totally flummoxed. I can't believe now that I didn't have a clue! I think my utter innocence let me through.
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Once volunteered to take the remaining kit of a friend who was relocating to the French Alps out on the ferry. It turned out to be a half filled suitcase and a 2 draw press containing loads of personal papers and a canteen of cutlery - he is quite minimalist. Had to insist there were no sealed envelopes in the drawers. No problem in taking the stuff, but you are responsible for everything you are transporting - you cannot say "a big boy did it", if there turns out to be something illicit in it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Thanks for all the replies.

We went this year and it was only when they asked about packing yourself that I realised what I'd let myself in for. There were only 2 bags then so I blagged it but it's going to be a bigger group this year. We're work colleagues and I know the company would frown on anybody dropping me in it. So I'm not expecting a couple of Kees of H, more like booze, fags and some fragrant foods.

I just don't fancy unpacking everyone's bags just to make an honest declaration.

Thanks again though because I think we'll go back empty and they can stump up the baggage fees themselves.

snowHead
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Skid9992003 wrote:


Thanks again though because I think we'll go back empty and they can stump up the baggage fees themselves.

snowHead


Apart from family, I won't take other people's bags through customs. Keeps it simple even if I have irritated people in the past.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Nothing illegal about carrying other peoples goods but it does arouse the paranoia of the security services.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I got pulled in GLA after being in Tenerife and had a hidden compartment in my case with lots of little sachets. Hmmm think customs chap... coming from an Island near Morocco and has a bg full of sachets? Lets get him they think.

Officer: what is this
Me: it is saline
Officer: why do you have saline?
Me: for a wound, I use it to clean it.
Officer: Can you show me it?
Me: Yes
Officer: Well?
Me: You asked if I "could" show you it
Officer: Yes
Me: does nothing. I am able to show him it but that is not the question.
Officer; I asked you to show me it.
Me; No you didn't
Officer: Yes I did
Me; thinking of dead parrot sketch so decides to ask.... Do you want to see where I use them.
Officer: Yes
Me: takes out prosthetic eye revealing a hole in my head and says. I Didn't want to stick some shitty water in there.

Officer; Why didn't you say.
Me; you didn't ask me why.

I was a bit like Sheldon in my early years Happy
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@GlasgowCyclops, Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@GlasgowCyclops titter
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
You can't carry other people's booze and fags through UK Customs as they are not for your personal use. They are for someone else and could be seized.
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Well to be precise (my italics):

https://www.gov.uk/duty-free-goods/arrivals-from-eu-countries
"You don’t pay duty or tax on goods you bring in from the European Union (EU) as long as you:
- transport them yourself
- will use them yourself or give them away as a gift
- have paid duty and tax in the country where you bought them"
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Skid9992003 wrote:
What's the legal way to carry other peoples bags?


I'd say 'without the use of firearms, without mounting the pavement on a moped to steal them in the first place, and without otherwise causing a breach of the peace'.

Apparently this is legal:



This is also legal, although this bloke is obviously not enjoying it:

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Sorry...I should have been clearer.

You cannot carry someone else's booze and fags through Customs as they are not yours.

The owner is not transporting them himself/herself.

This would likely lead to the goods being seized if they were encountered by Border Force.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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philwig wrote:
Well to be precise (my italics):

https://www.gov.uk/duty-free-goods/arrivals-from-eu-countries
"You don’t pay duty or tax on goods you bring in from the European Union (EU) as long as you:
- transport them yourself
- will use them yourself or give them away as a gift
- have paid duty and tax in the country where you bought them"


Hurdy,
My interpretation of this is that you can carry fags and booze for other people.
They have purchased it and paid all duty on it.
If you claim 'ownership' of them then you will then be 'gifting' them back to the owners.

You have to have a serious amount of fags and booze for customs to seize. There is no way that these chaps will get even close to it.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Skid9992003 wrote:
So we have a group going to Le Grand Massif (Flaine, Les Carroz, Samoens etc). Some are flying into Geneva and some are taking Eurotunnel. What paperwork etc. needs to be done to carry unaccompanied skis and bags by road? We actually have a people carrier / combi van so we usually get on the freight service as there's more sailings and flexibility. Could we set ourselves up to "Ship" our mates bags if they completed the customs declarations or whatever? I don't expect going out to be a problem but I'm concerned about coming back. Especially about making sure they don't pack any alcohol etc.


The skiers returning via GVA will probably get better duty free prices there for fags then duty paid in France anyway no?
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Skid9992003 wrote:
... We went this year and it was only when they asked about packing yourself that I realised what I'd let myself in for. There were only 2 bags then so I blagged it but it's going to be a bigger group this year. ...


I don't think it's illegal to carry other people's baggage. But if asked if it is yours, or if you packed it yourself, you have to be prepared to answer honestly, and then probably expect a more thorough questioning / search when you say No. Not sure if there is a risk that some transport operators (e.g. Eurotunnel) might then even refuse to accept it - but that your colleagues' problem not yours.

Skid9992003 wrote:
... We're work colleagues and I know the company would frown on anybody dropping me in it. ...

That's not really the point, is it? If they give you something illegal they might lose their job, but you could be in prison! Sad
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People can only bring goods into the UK that are for their personal use...doesn't matter where the goods originate from. If they are for commercial purposes then there are different processes to follow.

You can imagine the excuses now...."1000 of my mates bought 200 fags each and I am only carrying them for them officer".

If there was something illegal in their bags then you would be the one in trouble. Your work colleagues could turn around and say "Well, it wasn't in there when I gave it to him so he must have put it in there."

If you want to risk it then it is up to you but if (and I understand that it is a big if) you are stopped then you'll mates will lose their fags and booze, your name and details go on various databases and you may well be targeted for stopping whenever you travel...
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The customs union simply doesn't work that way, as above:
https://www.gov.uk/duty-free-goods/arrivals-from-eu-countries
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The Customs Union does work that way for personal goods brought into the UK for personal use.

We have already established the goods in question do not belong to the person travelling with them. Therefore they are not for his personal use.

However, here is the guidance handed out to people who want to know more...

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/262685/Travelling_to_the_UK.pdf

You can bring stuff in for your own use. Carrying someone else's stuff is not for your own use.

Happy to keep going around in circles...
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Are the skiers in question not capable of checking in their own bags and ski/board bags at the airport/eurostar, like thousands of other skiers do every ski season?

If they really want to offload them to a courier, then make them use a courier who's geared up for exactly that.

If someone else's bags travel in my vehicle, then the owner of those bags also travels in that vehicle. Simple as.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Let's chuck another stone in the pond, those people flying from Geneva will be arriving from outside the EU and are therefore subject to much lower duty free allowances.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Skid9992003 wrote:
What's the legal way to carry other peoples bags?


Dress as a lawyer, use bags that look legal, and step up to the courtroom.

http://www.todayonline.com/sites/default/files/styles/new_app_article_detail/public/21038067_0.JPG?itok=inlD8gyi
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
How about you only taking the awkward, bulky and problematic stuff - skis, boards, helmets and boots? Insist on no other items e.g. clothing, alcohol etc. That's up to each individual to pack and check in themselves. It's only a ski holiday after all so the clothing requirements will be limited.

This means that you can easily check what you're carrying; you're doing everyone a useful favour by taking the problem ski equipment; and any responsibility for illegal stuff is with the group members, not you.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We've travelled through Eurotunnel with a roof box loaded with skis belonging to Whitedot. We've brought stuff home from EoSB for others who have purchased an extra pair of skis from Spyderjon. No-one was in the least bit concerned at what was in there. At Dover,when we've used the ferry, they've sometimes checked the boot, but tend to be put off by the presence of the German Shepherd.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

tend to be put off by the presence of the German Shepherd

Classic smugglers trick... Of course, after... You-know-what - and Cujos pet passport is invalid, try coating the interior of the car with faeces to put off all but cursory inspection.
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@Hells Bells, You are right, I have crossed many times on the ferries and tunnel with cars and occasionally with a truck. Even with a truck the checks are very cursory, last time I had a forklift on that still had the french company name on etc. and there was no request for paperwork or anything, although I had it ready Little Angel . The only question I got was "are you on your own", which I was, in a double sleeper cab with enough cupboards dotted around to shove several illegals in Laughing The place is very busy and they focus on what they see as a higher risk traffic, and I would imagine, intelligence etc.
However, if I was the OP I would not carry bags for people other than very, very close friends and family and I might even then do what @philwig suggested above. You only want one of those wipes they do on the doorhandles to come up positive, or the nice little spaniel to start barking, things start to unravel and it's you that get's home late.
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Skid9992003 wrote:
So we have a group going to Le Grand Massif (Flaine, Les Carroz, Samoens etc). Some are flying into Geneva and some are taking Eurotunnel. What paperwork etc. needs to be done to carry unaccompanied skis and bags by road? We actually have a people carrier / combi van so we usually get on the freight service as there's more sailings and flexibility. Could we set ourselves up to "Ship" our mates bags if they completed the customs declarations or whatever? I don't expect going out to be a problem but I'm concerned about coming back. Especially about making sure they don't pack any alcohol etc.


Pre Brexit - there should be no need to complete any customs papers as we have free movement of goods. If you want belt and braces the a brief signed note from each friend you are carrying for and numbered inventory of the packages(cases/bags) and a brief description of what was in each

Post Brexit - These are goods that are entering and leaving a country. They are not for permanent import or export but it may be worth speaking to UK Border Force as no one has a clue what is going to happen.
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Skid9992003 wrote:
So we have a group going to Le Grand Massif (Flaine, Les Carroz, Samoens etc). Some are flying into Geneva and some are taking Eurotunnel. What paperwork etc. needs to be done to carry unaccompanied skis and bags by road? We actually have a people carrier / combi van so we usually get on the freight service as there's more sailings and flexibility. Could we set ourselves up to "Ship" our mates bags if they completed the customs declarations or whatever? I don't expect going out to be a problem but I'm concerned about coming back. Especially about making sure they don't pack any alcohol etc.


It is perfectly legal to do this. Some people have erroneously referenced moving newly purchased goods back into the UK. That's not the case here - these are duty paid goods already within the EU and therefore released for free circulation within the EU without customs control.

Specifically

"Union goods originate in the EU or have been imported from outside the EU and released for free circulation. All import formalities will have been completed, and duties and other charges paid.

Union goods don’t need to move under customs control within the territory of the EU. But if Union goods go via a third country, proof of Union status is needed. This proof can be provided by a Community status (T2L) declaration made on a Single Administrative Document (SAD)."

So, there is no requirement for any customs control at all. You MAY want a very simple declaration from each person whose bags you carry that they belong to them and that they are authorising you to transport them ... but, as per the above, it's not actually required but could be helpful.

You need something like ...

"To Whom in may Concern

I hereby authorise <your> to transport my goods between the UK and France. I confirm that these are all duty paid items released for free circulation within the European Union and therefore not subject to customs control.

Yours sincerely <their>, <their>, <their>, <their> "

All of this does NOT, of course, absolve you of any liability in the event that there is anything illegal within the bags. I would therefore be tempted to do what we do when going mountain biking in France or doing motorcycle track days in Spain and insist that only the 'technical' and heavy kits goes in the vans ... and the bags are left unzipped so that everyone can see what is in them. We carry our own personal kit ... but bikes, tools etc go in the vans.

Hope this assuages any concerns ... having a van to take stuff is a godsend in my opinion and we usually share any fuel and additional insurance costs.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Legal way to carry other peoples bags? There is nothing illegal in doing so but as others have said you could be responsible for any illicit items in the baggage. Be clear and firm with your friends about what you will and will not carry. Dont carry anything anyone is intending to sell or with which the owner intends to engage in any commercial activity and be prepared to explain the situation and open the bags to any customs authorities at any point of entry.
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My mate was driving down early to meet us on a trip this year. We chucked all our skis, avi bags etc in with him. He didn't care.

The last laugh as on him though; we smuggled two Remainers into mainland Europe in the ski bags.
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