Minibus with driver from UK to Alps

A snowHead

This idea is definitely much more desirable for cyclists than skiers - the only bus that currently takes you and your bike to the south of France costs £279-299 return £174 single, so it starts to look much more viable than the mooted £100 for skiers!

A snowHead

Hi Boris, I am not really inclined to divulge my whole concept and business idea but suffice it to say that prices could be viable from £100 for up to 16 to 19 passengers just in response to ozboys initially snowexpress comment which the has many other associated costs and inconvenience.
Anyway I believe it’s a viable and attractive proposition albeit niche for those groups as previously stated that value stress free travel in comfort to charge prices nearer £149.
You need to understand for the sake of being drawn into explanation, that this is a lifestyle choice business which provides me a means to ski instruct as will the co driver potentially during the week before returning.
There are also other income opportunities for occasional ski transfer work.
The profit margin as long as there is one is slightly irrelevant as there are other factors, income or otherwise, at stake which are generally about lifestyle and choice.
It’s interesting to gauge people’s opinion but I have close links to skisports and the private hire transport business already and although there will always be decisions to make I believe in the concept.
Thanks for your response.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

This bus is getting bigger by the day!!

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@RobinS, Hi Robin, great advice on the cyclists as this would be viable with a bespoke box trailer and although there would be slightly increased costs involved with channel crossing and toll charges I believe with a bus up to 16 passengers it should prove possible for considerably less.
Again as a lifestyle choice, depending on the routes and needs of the group if I were to be included in the cycle tour, which would be the basis for acceptance, then a significant reduction in profit margin could be possible.
Anyway the remuneration would be my personal decision but suffice it to say that PSV operators licence, other driver qualifications, regulations, protocols, insurances, breakdown etc will all be adhered to strictly in accordance with Uk domestic driver rules and current eu driver rules. Not withstanding the uncertainty of Brexit at this time!!!

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@Boris, Hi not sure, but could be wrong, I’ve never mentioned anything less than a 16 seater but potentially a 19 seater depending on luggage requirements.

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What is the purchase cost of a 19 seater luxury mini bus and do they include a loo, seat back screens and a fridge to keep the beers cold for the journey?

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Lol.

Just a quick tap on a calculator shows north of London to (easy-to-reach) Chamonix return is going to be an absolute minimum of £2,000 total costs per roundtrip for coach, gas, insurance, license, tests, vehicle wear, rockchips, repairs, replacement parts, snowtires, brakes, oil, chains, cleaning, train / ferry, tolls, Brexit paperwork, rest stops, bathroom breaks, antifreeze, storage, parking, etc. etc.

Assuming a realistic 70% average occupancy of a big 16-seater coach, the minimum charge to breakeven is going to be around £180 per ticket.

Even at £230 a ticket, you will struggle to make £500 profit (before tax).

A quick Google shows plenty flights at £35 and big coaches at £99.

It looks like a triumph of hope over math wink

After all it is free

@Whitegold, Thanks for your feedback but I am a solution based person, open minded and life practical and not riddled with the ill informed negativety of your previous posts. You need to listen more perhaps.

@Ozboy, Hi, I already have an association with a luxury private hire business and am aware of the options available for 16 and 19 seater minibuses.
They would not include a loo but all the other comforts and conveniences are included with potentially fixed tables on some models.

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@Brian Moncaster, JanetS and I are both PCV drivers and have done a bit of double manned coach stuff together. One of your issues is that for trips of this distance (depending on UK start location) you would need 2, and maybe even 3 drivers. Bike Express use one driver for the UK leg, then another 2 for the trip to southern France, so you would have a lot of driver logistics to sort. That said it is the sort of thing Janet and I would like to do - though this season we are transfer driving between Geneva and Chamonix, and in the early summer cycling around Europe!

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@Brian Moncaster, I suspect there is some sort of market for what you are suggesting, although I don't think you need to be too coy about the business proposition as it's pretty clear what you are talking about!

See also www.easypet.net

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@Ozboy, stick them in roofbox Toofy Grin

You know it makes sense.

@Ozboy, Hi, no worries. Not sure what easychildren or pet is but I’ll take a look!
Depending on luggage capacity of the proposed minibus there is an option for roof boxes for Snowsport equipment so no need to stick the kids in there!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@RobinS, Hi Robin, I appreciate your support and advice. Your right it could be a bit tight depending on pickup and drop off locations but this could be planned on an individual basis. The plan would only be for ski locations as stated in northern to central French Alps or even follow me into the Aosta Valley which would be ideal.
Drivers hours on double manning provide up to 10 hours driving each obviously with the statutory breaks and do not include the transfer time on and off the ferry/ tunnel.
Would love to keep in contact ready for the 2020/ 2021 season if you could drop me an email on brianmoncaster67@gmail.com.
I have already connections in the Aosta Valley for potential ski instruction and private hire transfer work which makes the concept more feasible at a lower profit margin so as to attract appropriate business at full capacity.
Thanks and have a great ski season. Where are you going to ski inbetween airport runs back to Geneva?

A snowHead

@Ozboy, naughty!

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Hi, all good points. The uk downtime would be my downtime with my family and other uk business so effectively a selective week on week off schedule, although I can be flexible with dates, destinations and capacities. I plan up to 8 trips per season to satisfy my ski thirst.
European breakdown and repatriation would be a definite inclusion to the business model as well as full private hire insurance and public liability.
I have several contacts even at this early stage for other operators for assistance and potential courtesy hire but I would take vehicle service, maintenance and repair as a paramount priority.
Hopefully for the European ventures be it summer or winter then I will establish a bank of qualified drivers for emergency and as I say I have already some driver contingency plans with current contacts.
Undoubtedly there will always be decisions and maybe setbacks but the business concept will evolve as opportunities present themselves.

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You can book 8 flights or 8 coaches for £400-800 return.

Much easier than wasting £10-20k on fantasy-island bus tours.

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@Whitegold, ts a good job we’re not built all the same as your narrow minded perspective would mean that every other business, idea or invention let alone any aspirational, self motivated sportsman or creative individual would cease to exist.
Your points are consistently inaccurate and contrary to general opinion.
Show me if I could be be patient enough to engage in such a conversation where 8 people can travel from there door in the uk to their accommodation in resort inclusive of all costs including ski baggage each for let’s say your top price if £800,,,, I’ll ignore your £400 quote especially if your talking flights!
Happy to banter but try keep it real.

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I can see where @Whitegold, is coming from, there are a lot of cheaper options to getting to snow. Ok not door to door, but for many people it does the job.

A door to door service will appeal to many, but it looks like you're running this to meet costs and get some skiing in. Not as a commercial business as such, if this is the case then fab.

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@Boris,Thanks Boris for your balance. There will be a market where it will appeal but your right it will be as stated a lifestyle choice rather than something I would take to Dragons Den at the moment. If you are taking ski equipment and baggage in a group with all associated additional transfer costs then I’m not sure you will find a cheaper option so I’m not sure that cost will exclude anyone. It would be wrong to say that any start up business did not have concerns over costs
but it is part of an overall concept all year round combined with other commercial opportunities. The door to door is a key factor as is overnight hire of driver as such which is not the usual practice of a commercial private hire company.
I like fab!

After all it is free

@Brian Moncaster, I wish you well with your venture.
I can sleep anywhere so have no issue with an overnight coach and have done it many times with different operators.

I did the Thurs-Mon coach trip to the 3 Valleys with Ski-Weekends a couple of times. Interesting that Ski-Weekends no longer use the bus travel option...

@Brian Moncaster, My other half is a L2 instructor. She has travelled with private groups and instructed in Austria and Italy. Have you looked into obtaining temporary permits to teach? I only ask as I know that it's not always straight forward.

Her documentation and licence were checked on the slopes in both Austria and Italy (twice). IIRC Italian temporary permits (probably depending on region) are time limited and only allow an individual a fixed number of days instructing.

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@GeorgeVII, Hi, I’ve only looked into working for licensed ski schools like Interski etc at the moment where accommodation and costs are covered.
Maybe further down the line this maybe if interest.

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I'm sure there is a market for a high-end door-to-door service that maximises slope time and minimises hassle for the well-heeled customer.

I've often pondered over this and my take goes like this: pick up clients late on Friday afternoon and, after them settling in, dinner on board, chit-chat and all retire to bunk beds. Arrive in resort for first lift on Saturday morning. Punters leave with ski gear, then drivers take their bags to accommodation. Sweep van and change linen. If home-bound punters are nearby, great, go skiing. Otherwise drive to pickup resort. If no home-bounds, even greater, live in van and go skiing for the week.

Pick up late Saturday afternoon, after skiing and a shower. Dinner on board and drive back. Drop them off at home again, tired but refreshed, on Sunday morning. This gives them a full 8 days' skiing whilst still fitting in with the normal Saturday-to-Saturday accommodation pattern. Travelling is completed in otherwised dead time - eating and sleeping.

This requires a custom van with, say, 6 bunks for the clients plus a tiny one for the resting driver, galley, toilet, table and chairs. Plenty of coachbuilders could do this easily.

Years ago we often travelled on Parnhams coaches for a Ski Olympic holiday. I noted that the spare driver would rest in a cubby hole under the stairs. He said this was because he had to rest in a 'proper' bed - dozing upright on a seat was not permitted. Worth checking perhaps.

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@Brian Moncaster, I think I misinterpreted your first post. I thought that you were offering group transport to the hills then teaching said group in resort.

@altis, I don't think bunks on coaches/PCVs is a"goer" these days. A limited amount of seat recline is obviously allowed but passengers must be secured by belts in the event of an accident/impact. Flying out of a bed like a torpedo probably not ideal. rolling eyes

You know it makes sense.

@GeorgeVII,

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/converting-a-van-to-carry-passengers-in-the-rear/converting-a-van-to-carry-passengers-in-the-rear

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@altis, A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when:

c) the number of passengers carried by it, or the manner in which they are carried;is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person.

sorry, classic snowheads thread drift.

A snowHead

@Brian Moncaster, this thread, the negative aspects expressed, really gives a lucid look at the proposal you're considering. Any negative views can form an import part of a business plan development, more harsh allows a wider view of things you face and may not immediately have considered. Quite a valuable asset.

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=3476887#3476887 that thread certainly puts into perspective the headroom you have if you are entertaining plans to deliver into Tarentaise ski areas. Given the total numbers going there from UK too, there must be fair potential to gain a small sector of that for your operation.

A snowHead

People who want convenience and have spare cash will probably fly. What's convenient for them is if you collect their equipment and luggage before they leave, take it to their accommodation, meet them at the airport on arrival and then drive them around in the resort. Reversing the process at the end of the holiday. Their problem isn't getting to a UK airport - anyone can do that. Indeed, they will often have a transfer company they use regularly and whom they prefer.

But with the transportation/destination service, you're making their flight a cinch with only carry-on luggage or even just a rucksack or shoulder-bag. And once they're on the flight out, everything is taken care of by you. Ditto the reverse: I'd love at the end of a holiday just to leave my luggage and equipment at the hotel, get collected and dropped-off at the airport with just a small rucksack, and then have all that stuff dropped-off at my home a few days later.

A supplementary service could be to offer luggage carriage on it own, as well. These clients will have their flights and transfers sorted, but don't want to lug a tonne of luggage and equipment around. You pick up from their UK home, drop-off at their Alpine accommodation, and vice-versa. And you're on call in the resort as a known quantity if they get stuck or want an excursion further afield one day.

In an ideal world, you'd have two vehicles. A secure white van for the luggage transfer and a comfortable minibus for the destination work. The White van would just shuttle between the UK and the Alps and the minibus would work the airports and resorts. Then if the white van breaks down you have the contingency of transferring the load to the minivan. THis would also focus the administrative effort required onto pure freight - I imagine there are all sorts of customs declarations required to move luggage across borders without the owners. And you'd need to check all baggage for contraband etc.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

If this can come out at a broadly comparable price I could see it being attractive to some people. (E.g. those who never fly). Particularly if the seats recline or are comfortable enough to get a reasonable amount of sleep.

A journey say Wimborne - Aosta is around 14 hours. Need at least 2 meal/comfort stops, plus allowance for delays (particulary Friday pm in UK) so say 18 hours in total. To arrive 09:00 Saturday, leave at 15:00 Friday - so an extra day/afternoon off work. For return, leave at 18:00 Saturday and get back midday Sunday. As with people going by overnight train, you would need arrangements for storing luggage / changing during both Saturdays if this can't be provided by the destination accommodation.

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It’s interesting watching the ‘snowheads thread drift’ from time to time but I have to say ecureuil is as close to my wavelength as I’ve seen. The costs will be broadly comparable if not cheaper in some circumstances than other options with baggage or without so there will not be a significant cost issue. Snowsports enthusiasts travelling to the Alps in their thousands have already worked out the considerable savings and convenience of coach travel over flights when traveling with luggage and in groups so we don’t need to keep that debate going,just to say that it works for some, some of the time and not others.
The luxury minibus will have leather reclining seats to the highest standard with armrests and headrests. Some seating with have adjacent fixed tables in front of them whilst all others will have drop down tables from the rear of the forward seat as normal. All other standard conveniences such as WiFi points, headphones and DVD screens will be available too.
The timing schedule proposed is obviously similar to my plans allowing for pickup and drop off locations on an individual basis so flexibility will be key and calculated in advance for each trip.
Likewise destination facilities for storage and checking in/ checking out times will vary per group but this can be accommodated if required by use of the minibus at both ends of the holiday. Other options for secure storage will also exist locally, again only if required, through accommodation contacts.

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@ski3, Thanks, I enjoyed the last comment that there are huge numbers travelling to the Alps via all different options and a service such as mine will be able to find its niche. Hopefully I have more business than I can handle which will provide others opportunities. Currently I am only planning between 6 and 8 trips so the scale of the operation is not vast or even incomprehensible to imagine that there will not be share of the market available. There is enough positive feedback already to suggest this.
I am certainly not ignorant of some of the negativity and the points they express but they tend to be one dimensional whereas open mindedness provides not only solutions but possibilities.

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You'd presumably need 2 drivers - although we peasants driving ourselves are allowed to do the journey in one hit?

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After all it is free

@philwig, Hi, whilst I accept the sceptism of a few but by no means all especially those who know me and understand my intentions I feel it necessary to point out this is not an idea just dreamt up to put on snowheads.
I already have a close association with transport operators and would be confident of offering a reliable service with contingency. You are right, trust can only be earned as a start up but it is part of a wider business plan which will filter quickly into all operations should initial business prove successful as anticipated.
To many of your points though I believe they have been addressed and even debated by others and I would respectfully say that my optimism or as I tagged it open mindedness will provide solutions and opportunities.
Cost comparison , reliability, two drivers, personal circumstances making it a viable lifestyle choice, limited pickup and drop offs (3-4 maximum) and above all a complete door to door service is an attractive and enviable proposition. All theses issues have been answered and though this was not meant to be a pitch but a request for interested driver parties I have indulged myself and found it extremely useful to gauge opinion and have on the way been offered great support and indeed ideas such as summer cycling tours so thank you for that.

@pam w, Hi Pam, I’ve driven many many times into France, Italy and Switzerland but also flown many more with hirecar connections etc.
Safe to say that some scenarios work to fly and some to drive. Yes it would be a 2 driver operation.With the complexity of group sizes, destinations, time of year, costs, accommodation, skiing time, convenience etc then there are many ways to judge a ski holiday. I’m just providing an alternative to those who value the hassle free, direct service that door to door implies at a comparable if not cheaper overall cost to coach travel which in turn trumps flying for cost when travelling with baggage and large groups. Private hire exists for a reason.

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Excellent

when do we get to see the website and the offering? Smile

Help!!

Minibus with driver from UK to Alps

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