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Get those legs apart - not good!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
under a new name wrote:
Short stiff FIS SL skis don't help I must confess.

A bloody nightmare!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Old Fartbag, not so bad, just a bit sharp as you wipe off speed on the tops.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The @kitenski video shows a slightly cut up piste, not moguls! You could almost tuck it down the fall line...
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Indeed get on something big n handy like a Shiro or Rag and you could just muller them.

In fairness the last bit of bumps coaching I had the coach told me my problem was trying to turn round each one and I should just muller them Super G style like him.

In fairness I didn't quite have his skillset nor his Streif victory.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Old Fartbag wrote:
under a new name wrote:
Short stiff FIS SL skis don't help I must confess.

A bloody nightmare!


These are what i use on piste daily, and in bumps, and in fact what I had my lesson on. I figure that if I can get this all right on these, all will be fine. Probably an erroneous assumption...!
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My 2p worth now I'm back in Blighty.

Emotionally the most difficult skiing for most people is on steep terrain with or without ice, moguls, crud, powder, trees.

Technically the most difficult skiing is performing slow 360 degree spins in both directions on the flattest of beginner runs.

A skier can 'get down' the former with a combination of skill, strength & luck.

The latter will highlight all that is wrong with a skier's stance, balance, pivotting/rotary skills, patience & timing very, very quickly.

Which is ironic as there'll be very little speed on snow but constant, dynamic speed of movement.

Once you can achieve the 'flat spin' then you'll be in a place where you'll have the body awareness, flexibility & skill to perform pivotted and carved turns - or a combination of both - on steeper terrain.
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@Mike Pow,
that's an interesting point - have to say I've never seen that drill in the real world
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
onbviously I've seen people doing spins but not as a training exercise under instruction
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Mike Pow wrote:
My 2p worth now I'm back in Blighty.

Emotionally the most difficult skiing for most people is on steep terrain with or without ice, moguls, crud, powder, trees.

Technically the most difficult skiing is performing slow 360 degree spins in both directions on the flattest of beginner runs.

A skier can 'get down' the former with a combination of skill, strength & luck.

The latter will highlight all that is wrong with a skier's stance, balance, pivotting/rotary skills, patience & timing very, very quickly.

Which is ironic as there'll be very little speed on snow but constant, dynamic speed of movement.

Once you can achieve the 'flat spin' then you'll be in a place where you'll have the body awareness, flexibility & skill to perform pivotted and carved turns - or a combination of both - on steeper terrain.


I can do this just fine, and do regularly for edge control drill! There is hope!
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@Mike Pow, you going to launch a new training method all based on flat land spins
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Harry Flashman wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
My 2p worth now I'm back in Blighty.

Emotionally the most difficult skiing for most people is on steep terrain with or without ice, moguls, crud, powder, trees.

Technically the most difficult skiing is performing slow 360 degree spins in both directions on the flattest of beginner runs.

A skier can 'get down' the former with a combination of skill, strength & luck.

The latter will highlight all that is wrong with a skier's stance, balance, pivotting/rotary skills, patience & timing very, very quickly.

Which is ironic as there'll be very little speed on snow but constant, dynamic speed of movement.

Once you can achieve the 'flat spin' then you'll be in a place where you'll have the body awareness, flexibility & skill to perform pivotted and carved turns - or a combination of both - on steeper terrain.


I can do this just fine, and do regularly for edge control drill! There is hope!


Surely lack of edge control?

As in plenty of control but less edge.


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 27-02-19 11:06; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kitenski wrote:
@Mike Pow, you going to launch a new training method all based on flat land spins


When I looked at the video you posted of yourself, the biggest thing which jumped out at me was at the end of the video both your knees were traveling in the same direction and on the same plane as the tips of your skis.

What I succinctly phrase as 'keep your knees over your skis' when I teach.

Earlier in your video your downhill knee was dropping inside & off-plane of the tip of your downhill ski hence the breaking away of the downhill ski and the reliance on too much balance & pressure on the uphill ski (that's a chicken and egg scenario though i.e. which one comes first and which is the cause and which is the effect?)

And I know this is a legacy of being taught to ski using the snow plough shape.

Once you had whole body balance on both skis relative to the terrain under your skis you had a more fluid and smoother movement pattern.

I've been very successful in taking skiers like yourself right back to the shallowest of terrain where gravity and pitch can't help in getting the skis around to correct these biomechanical imbalances.

There's also a mental component to deal with too - whole body balance commitment to the fall line, especially in steeper terrain.

And it's taken far shorter than 3 years.

For 'never evers' introducing whole body balancing on both skis relative to the terrain and teaching them that it's turn shape which slows them down / stops them rather than the physically demanding & biomechanically inefficient snow plough stop in the fall line, has resulted in the majority of my students being able to link parallel turns on green and blue runs on their first day on snow.

This can only be achieved on a 1-1 basis.


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 27-02-19 11:10; edited 5 times in total
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Harry Flashman wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
My 2p worth now I'm back in Blighty.

Emotionally the most difficult skiing for most people is on steep terrain with or without ice, moguls, crud, powder, trees.

Technically the most difficult skiing is performing slow 360 degree spins in both directions on the flattest of beginner runs.

A skier can 'get down' the former with a combination of skill, strength & luck.

The latter will highlight all that is wrong with a skier's stance, balance, pivotting/rotary skills, patience & timing very, very quickly.

Which is ironic as there'll be very little speed on snow but constant, dynamic speed of movement.

Once you can achieve the 'flat spin' then you'll be in a place where you'll have the body awareness, flexibility & skill to perform pivotted and carved turns - or a combination of both - on steeper terrain.


I can do this just fine, and do regularly for edge control drill! There is hope!


That's great.

I'd suggest that if you can't achieve this on steeper terrain then

1. Either your speed of movement is too slow relative to the pull of gravity from the steeper terrain. You feel like you're accelerating too quickly, get worried, and then shut the turn down too quickly.

or

2. You're not committing the full amount of whole body balance to the steeper pitch which means you'll have too much balance & pressure on your uphill ski making rounded, smooth turns almost impossible.
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You know it makes sense.
I'm going with 2. Sounds about right.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Harry Flashman wrote:
I'm going with 2. Sounds about right.


Pleasure.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
But snow ploighs, IMHO, are very useful tools...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
under a new name wrote:
But snow ploighs, IMHO, are very useful tools...


Agreed.

Slowing down in a narrow channel on the way to the lift.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Harry Flashman wrote:
Have any of you had to un-learn narrow stance and vertical movement (minimal, but there) in your turns? And were you as demoralised as me?


I reached a plateau for several years, just not making any real progress due to various inherent technique faults.

Spent a lot of time on one:one coaching which felt like it involved completely relearning how to ski from the basics upwards. Was so so so tempted to just go back to the 'old' way and give up. But I didn't and now, ten years later, think that was the best investment I could ever have made.

Learning the different techniques properly and where and how to apply them just moves your skiing to a different level and, once you have, you'll find, I think, that your enjoyment levels rocket because every single situation you encounter on the snow has something to give you.

Stick with it is my advice Happy.
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@Mike Pow, thanks. The snow plough stop isn't currently taught from my last basi refresher I did... They are more in line with turn shape as you also said.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

The snow plough stop isn't currently taught from my last basi refresher I did...


how do people slow down on slick downhill chairlift loadings? Does BASI teach the wrist threatening double pole jab instead?
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@Blackblade,
Quote:

ten years later, think that was the best investment I could ever have made.

Learning the different techniques properly and where and how to apply them just moves your skiing to a different level and, once you have, you'll find, I think, that your enjoyment levels rocket because every single situation you encounter on the snow has something to give you.

+1 in spades
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
kitenski wrote:
@Mike Pow, thanks. The snow plough stop isn't currently taught from my last basi refresher I did... They are more in line with turn shape as you also said.


Great news. Not before time.

The braking plough is broken.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Mike Pow,

how do people slow down on slick downhill chairlift loadings? Does BASI teach the wrist threatening double pole jab instead?

What is the best approach to this then? Do you never push your heels apart a bit to shave some speed in a tight spot?
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jedster wrote:
@Mike Pow,

how do people slow down on slick downhill chairlift loadings? Does BASI teach the wrist threatening double pole jab instead?

What is the best approach to this then? Do you never push your heels apart a bit to shave some speed in a tight spot?


Preferably slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can glide slowly to the turnstile.

If that's not possible, then slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can do slow pivots to the turnstile.

If that's not possible, then slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can sideslip to the turnstile.

If that's not possible, then slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can brush off enough speed with a snow plough to glide to the turnstile.

And yes I do snow plough to brush off speed, but it's not my go to move.
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Alternatively, enter the lift queue at great speed having done none of the above, and unable to slow down because you've never learnt the braking snowplough. As you take out half the lift queue, shout "Attention!" and "Desolee!" as loudly as possible, therefore convincing all around that you are French, and not a stupid careless Brit wink
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BTW this is real bump skiing not your BASI stuff. Love Caston's low n loose style. He's a mega athlete but even so


Return of the Turn—Episode One from Freeskier Magazine
https://vimeo.com/238597183
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Harry Flashman wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
under a new name wrote:
Short stiff FIS SL skis don't help I must confess.

A bloody nightmare!


These are what i use on piste daily, and in bumps, and in fact what I had my lesson on. I figure that if I can get this all right on these, all will be fine. Probably an erroneous assumption...!


Erm no. Yeah you'll have nailed it if you can ski bumps on FIS sls but you can make life a hell of a lot easier on something that skids and actually flexes.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I still keep trying to ski off piste with them but by god it's hard work Laughing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Scarpa, nah, awesome powder skis
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Gordyjh wrote:
The @kitenski video shows a slightly cut up piste, not moguls! You could almost tuck it down the fall line...


it did say "easy bumps" - although they are about as bumpy as Kiera Knightley's chest.

I must say the Basi videos do make skiing look about as much fun as it probably is to teach... not much. Which is probably a good thing as it will put off those who don't have a genuine passion to transmit their knowledge to others.
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BTW this is real bump skiing not your BASI stuff. Love Caston's low n loose style. He's a mega athlete but even so
I rode with an Olympic mogul medalist the other week. She had no air-gap, and no magnets were used. They do use slightly baggy pants, mind.

It's a very specific style and very pretty, even in deep powder.
She rode the same style on absolutely everything, never missed a beat, never fell.
Most experts have a more varied approach; presumably that's her training.

I don't think you'd ever vary your leg gap though, which those basi people are doing.

I must say the Basi videos do make skiing look about as much fun as it probably is to teach... not much.
<laughs> Ahh, it's not just me who thought that. At least they weren't snowploughing.

----
I suppose all "style" stuff is a matter of opinion and will change with fashion over time.
I'd like to think that I'm a fan of "functional" stuff, although the mogul skier style is for the judges, so not strictly functional.

I personally think it looks lame when people force their legs together,
although you don't see the legs in powder anyway and skis these days are so wide it probably doesn't work.
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@Mike Pow,
Quote:

Preferably slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can glide slowly to the turnstile.

If that's not possible, then slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can do slow pivots to the turnstile.

If that's not possible, then slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can sideslip to the turnstile.

If that's not possible, then slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can brush off enough speed with a snow plough to glide to the turnstile.

And yes I do snow plough to brush off speed, but it's not my go to move.


I was really talking about the bit between the barrier and getting on the chair - sometimes you want to push off when the gate opens and slow down at the end of the loading ramp. Pivots and sideslips are hardly a viable tactic in that space.
I agree, hardly ever use them outside that environment but they are still a useful tool in the box - if they are useful they are not broken. Just means there are better options in most situations.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
jedster wrote:
@Mike Pow,
Quote:

Preferably slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can glide slowly to the turnstile.

If that's not possible, then slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can do slow pivots to the turnstile.

If that's not possible, then slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can sideslip to the turnstile.

If that's not possible, then slow down enough prior to getting to the chairlift that you can brush off enough speed with a snow plough to glide to the turnstile.

And yes I do snow plough to brush off speed, but it's not my go to move.


I was really talking about the bit between the barrier and getting on the chair - sometimes you want to push off when the gate opens and slow down at the end of the loading ramp. Pivots and sideslips are hardly a viable tactic in that space.
I agree, hardly ever use them outside that environment but they are still a useful tool in the box - if they are useful they are not broken. Just means there are better options in most situations.


In that situation, if you've mistimed it and pushed off too hard, then yes widening the tails works.

As to my 'the braking plough is broken' statement, as the go to method to control speed & stop in the fall line I stand by my statement.
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[bunder a new name[/b],

Couldn't agree more! Very Happy
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Is bunder a new name under a new name?
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i think theres a lot of rubbish talked about skiing techniques, skiing for most of us is a one week a year holiday, as long as you can get down in one piece enjoy it, falling is always funny if you can get up unscathed, my skiing technique is like my golf swing, its unique to me, and other people wonder how it works, i dont know but it just does. and as for the snowplough, thats something that has got me out of a whole lotta trouble in the past.
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@compostcorner, I entirely agree, people can get enjoyment from skiing at all sorts of different levels. Ultimately, you need to be able to do two things - control your speed, and control your line. If you can do both these things, you are a safe skier, and if that's what you want to achieve, that's fine.
However, some skiers may want to go faster, or further, or with more precision, or on more challenging terrain, or with more style (subjective), and for that to be the case, their skiing needs to become more technical.
Like I said, we all enjoy skiing at different levels.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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Old Fartbag wrote:
The video that @Klamm Franzer linked to, is a fantastic example of how starting slowly and concentrating on "Turn Finishing" gives terrific control. it's one of the things I was working on this year.....if only I could achieve those angles.


I think that's Dave Ryding - reckon he knows what he's doing. His stance appears (to my eyes, at least) very narrow.
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compostcorner wrote:
i think theres a lot of rubbish talked about skiing techniques, skiing for most of us is a one week a year holiday, .

Don't think this is true for the OP who is out there for the season.
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Kelskii wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
The video that @Klamm Franzer linked to, is a fantastic example of how starting slowly and concentrating on "Turn Finishing" gives terrific control. it's one of the things I was working on this year.....if only I could achieve those angles.


I think that's Dave Ryding - reckon he knows what he's doing. His stance appears (to my eyes, at least) very narrow.

...but it's not blocking him from getting both skis onto their edges.

I think us lesser mortals live by different rules
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