 Poster: A snowHead
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Can it just be noted that it seems far from a ‘classic setup’. The origin is on an unstable rock outcrop and it appears debris fell onto the main slope triggering the larger slide. We are looking for photos of the outcrop prior to today (we only have some of the lower sections of that slope) to see how much rock and how much snow was in the debris which came off the outcrop. The rock here mostly is metamorphic and very friable. This rock outcrop is SE facing and very prone to freeze thaw cycles and hence detachment. It is clear from the last photo I posted last night that there is no residual layer of snow on the outcrop - either all the snow detached or the rock beneath the snow detached. Not a classic slab avalanche. We also first thought that the piste controllers would be first in line but the photos suggest this was not something they could readily anticipate. The debris on piste is exceptionally deep and over a large area. The resort is currently dependent on the helpline to determine missing and accounted-for.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@davidof,
Exactly
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Woosh, I think it was a question about the patrollers not using explosives. This slope has three gas detonators and the lower lip frequently has cornicing which is released. But the initial break away originated way above these areas, in a place I have never seen the patrollers trigger slides. We will be talking further with pisteurs today.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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That video is horrific - very fast moving and doesn’t look very slabby on that front edge!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@valais2,
But it seems to be a wet avalanche? That is almost impossible to trigger. That is why a lot of slopes in Alps are closed (particularly in the afternoon) throughout the Alps in the springtime.
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@BoardieK,
Terrifying video. Good news seems to be that few were caught and that hopefully the people that were standing at the avalanche were the ones that were rescued alive.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Jeez, that video is terrifying 
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Looking at that video. Is there a skiddoo and stretcher parked up where the avalanche strikes the piste ? There also appears to be two people walking around too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| BergenBergen wrote: |
| Looking at that video. Is there a skiddoo and stretcher parked up where the avalanche strikes the piste ? There also appears to be two people walking around too. |
Yes and maybe vertical skis although I'm not sure if they're in the snow or on the skidoo, anyway it looks like someone down on the piste at what is the worst possible place a few seconds later. Is the 'bang' and 'rumble' as the skier moves off the usual over amplified sound pick up on the camera mic or is that the avalanche releasing?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Quite a brown trouser moment. A bit more glove/pole faff and they might have been caught up in it too. Little things.
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You know it makes sense.
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The guy who was seriously injured died overnight. 34 years and member of the ski piste control.
RIP
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Woosh, agreed ... I don’t think this could have been controlled. It was an event up on the crag which loaded the lower slope which then went.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Rest in peace. Terrible tragedy and thankfully there weren't more, went to bed last night expecting to be reading about multiple deaths this morning.
Doesn't take anything away from it though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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that video is horrific, especially seeing those people who were stood near the point where the avalanche hit the piste, and seeing them trying to get away. RIP for the guy who died over night and I hope the others are not too badly injured.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Sack the Juggler, +1
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Woosh wrote: |
@valais2,
But it seems to be a wet avalanche? That is almost impossible to trigger. That is why a lot of slopes in Alps are closed (particularly in the afternoon) throughout the Alps in the springtime. |
A tactical nuke dropped from a Swiss F18 (maybe by their new top model pilot Fanny Cholet) might do it!
There have been experiments with water injection to trigger this kind of avalanche, but not very conclusive. The only real solution is to keep off (or close) areas threatened by "spring" type avalanches or to engage in extensive avalanche control work. There has been a lot of recent snow and now with the high temperatures we're really in a "spring skiing" type scenario on east and south faces.
According to the resort website yesterday the piste below the avalanche site was scheduled to close at noon. Whether this happened or not maybe someone local knows? Apparently glide cracks had been seen on the slope but no evidence on the photos or videos of that.
Air pockets or not, you are highly unlikely to survive being buried in a wet snow avalanche and your airbag won't save you either. Fortunately, unless you are immobile or in a gulley (the piste configuration in this case wasn't ideal) they are easy to escape from, being relatively slow moving.
> Is there a skiddoo and stretcher parked up where the avalanche strikes the piste ?
yes, the piste patrol were giving first aid to an injured skier.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 20-02-19 15:27; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ster wrote: |
Quite a brown trouser moment. A bit more glove/pole faff and they might have been caught up in it too. Little things. |
Certainly a bit less.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Woosh wrote: |
The guy who was seriously injured died overnight. 34 years and member of the ski piste control.
RIP |
RIP
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| davidof wrote: |
| .. the piste patrol were giving first aid to an injured skier. |
I guess they were the people known to be caught? How, somehow, doubly terrible.
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| davidof wrote: |
Air pockets or not, you are highly unlikely to survive being buried in a wet snow avalanche and your airbag won't save you either. Fortunately, unless you are immobile or in a gulley (the piste configuration in this case wasn't ideal) they are easy to escape from, being relatively slow moving.
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The weather and time of day would suggest otherwise but it didn’t look like a typical slow running wet snow slide from the cloud of powder in the video!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| davidof wrote: |
Air pockets or not, you are highly unlikely to survive being buried in a wet snow avalanche and your airbag won't save you either. Fortunately, unless you are immobile or in a gulley (the piste configuration in this case wasn't ideal) they are easy to escape from, being relatively slow moving.
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Interesting point, I'm fairly sure I read a paper on this. I can't find it but ABS mention it on their website, :
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OK, SO MAYBE THE ABS WORKS IN LIGHT POWDER SNOW, BUT DO I ALSO STAND A CHANCE IN HEAVY SNOW?
In fact, the opposite is true. The heavier the snow, the greater the density and therefore the lower its volume. Late-season wet snow typically weighs approximately 21 oz (600 grams) per 34 fl oz (1 liter). 2.2 lb (1 kg) of new snow has a volume of 57 fl oz (1.7 liters). 2.2 lb (1 kg) of human has a volume of 35 fl oz (1.03 liters). This means that 220 lb (100 kg) of wet snow has a volume of 45 gal, while a 220 lb (100 kg) person has a volume of 27 gal (103 liters). To ensure than a person will float on top of the avalanche snow, an extra volume of at least 18 gal is required. In powder snow, on the other hand, an additional volume of more than 39 gal (148 liters) is necessary (see Point 2). |
There's some muddling of figures there but the point is not entirely unreasonable. But my instinct is that there's more to floating than relative density and this is not a perfect fluid.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| ise wrote: |
There's some muddling of figures there but the point is not entirely unreasonable. But my instinct is that there's more to floating than relative density and this is not a perfect fluid. |
I'll let the ABS guys test out their theory thanks  .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ski lift head denies greed kept avalanche-prone pistes open
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Looks like a classic piece of stirring by journalists designed to create controversy. Surely the lift company wouldn't be giving any refunds for lift closures unless a very large proportion of the lifts were shut, so it wouldn't have cost them anything to close this piste and a number of others.
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You know it makes sense.
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my very basic understanding of the T's and C's of your lift pass is that as long as at least 1 lift is turning and 1 piste is open then no refunds are due, because "you could have technically still skied" this is why even on the most horrible stormbound days your will normally find 1 beginners tow in operation on a low level slope.
the number of lifts / variation of runs available has no bearing on the refund
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