 Poster: A snowHead
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Okay, I know that this is covered on another thread at the moment on which I made the remark:
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Just got back from 3 days in the Spanish Sierra Nevada. Ski hire shop took 4 pairs of skis off the rack, took a boot and fitted it. The DIN settings weren't even looked at, never mind changed.
For those that know Mr M and I... you'd probably agree that our settings shouldn't be the same... |
But I need a little extra guidance...
The ski hire shop practically threw the skis at us after just setting the boot size, but not adjusting any DIN settings – oh how I need to learn… I knew that my toe settings had never been at seven before (MK had always put them at about 4½ – and why were Mr M’s set the same? Who was right? The shop didn’t care… And I’d never even looked at the heal settings before, never mind having any idea what they ought to be, either.
I wasn’t happy, and we took them back. I spoke to a bloke in the shop, I think the only one with a splattering of English, and he changed the settings for us. What could I believe, only that he was the technician and that his technical knowledge would be correct?
When taking the skis back to the hire shop, I questioned their settings again. Their comments? (In fact the comments from the same bloke that allegedly re-set them) That Mr M’s settings were set okay, but that I might have broken a leg had I fallen.
They never asked about our abilities at all.
I will never go into a ski hire shop and pay the £’s before watching what goes on in the fitting department again.
For this I have snowHeads to thank – for allowing me know what isn’t right. Now comes the question – not just ‘what is right’, in other words “here’s the chart that was posted on the other thread” but, why and how…?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Michelle, OK, what we need to know is the following:
Age (you are in the normal zone, is Mr M over 50?)
Weight
Height
Ability
Boot Sole Length
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Michelle, yep, the 286mm.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If it was me, I'd set you at 5.5. (yes, I expect some will say 5 and some 6, so I'll go in-between)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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What about Mr M?
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(oh, and 5.5 would tie in with the MK setting - they normally take your actual value and take 1 off it.
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What about the heel setting? How does that work?
(I'll PM Mr M's to you  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Michelle, generally it should be the same.
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Fox, as I say - as the 'punter' that I am, I've never even looked at the heel settings - are they numbered through to 9 too? I had the impression from the 'experts' that they were weight settings...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Michelle, the heel should be marked the same as the toe, so if your bindings are 3-9, then both the heel and the toe will be marked 3-9.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Michelle wrote: |
| I had the impression from the 'experts' that they were weight settings... |
you sometimes hear people refer to the settings in that way - so, for example, DIN of 9 becomes 90 kilos. It's fair to say that there is a loose correlation (I weigh about 95 kilos and have DIN of about 9.5 for example) but as Fox's posts suggest it isn't quite as simple as that.
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You know it makes sense.
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Wear The Fox Hat, I apologies if this is a dumb question, but why do you require the persons height for the DIN setting?
wouldn't the force exterted be governed by the weight, ability, physical characteristics (physical fitness and sex), and boot sole length.
But why height unless you consider the leverage effects.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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davidb, the standard charts use both weight and height, then the lower of the two ranges is used, so a tall, thin person will be judged by their weight, while a short, fat one will be judged by their height (because in each case, the lower value will produce the lower DIN setting)
It could be argued that the crucial bits have little to do with weight and height, but are acutally the person's bone strength, muscle strength, fitness levels, and previous injuries. Unfortunately measuring these is not something that can easily be done in a rental shop when a coach load of Brits comes bounding in...
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Poster: A snowHead
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Michelle, I'm not an expert at all, but it might help if you appreciate that the DIN settings indicate, in general terms, howmuch force is needed for your foot to leave the binding in a fall (or how tightly the binding holds your boot). The correct setting for you is therefore related to the force exerted on the binding by you, through your foot, which in turn is related to your weight, and how fast you accelerate/decelerate (which includes turning as well as speeding up/slowing down). You want to ensure that the binding allows your boot to leave at the appropriate time (when it's time to part company with your ski and go it alone on your @rse or head) but doesn't let the ski go off on its own just because you're doing a particularly fast, tight turn.
This means that of two people who ski identically, the lighter will have lower DIN settings because they will exert less force on their bindings than the heavier one in the same circumstances. Similarly, of two people of equal weight, the 'harder' (usually the better) skier will have a higher DIN setting. Presumably racers have their DIN settings cranked up so that they are more likely to lose a leg than a ski.
No doubt there's more to it than that, but I think that gives an idea of the logic behind the DIN settings.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Michelle wrote: |
| So, how do the boot length, ability and height effect the settings? |
Longer boot = lower DIN
Greater ability = higher DIN (actually, "ability" is probably the wrong word, and "aggressiveness" isn't it either, but it's somewhere in between)
More height and weight = higher DIN
So, if you see a tall, thin man skiing badly, but his DIN settings are very high, that means he has very small, um... ski boots
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
davidb, the standard charts use both weight and height, then the lower of the two ranges is used, so a tall, thin person will be judged by their weight, while a short, fat one will be judged by their height (because in each case, the lower value will produce the lower DIN setting)
It could be argued that the crucial bits have little to do with weight and height, but are acutally the person's bone strength, muscle strength, fitness levels, and previous injuries. Unfortunately measuring these is not something that can easily be done in a rental shop when a coach load of Brits comes bounding in... |
Some versions of the chart use weight and tibia head (knee) width. I have always felt that this would produce a more accurate value, particularly for women.
I have never seen a shop use this though.
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rjs, Probably because the tech got clouted every time he felt the women's knees  .
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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maggi, it's bad enough asking them their weight and age!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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5.5 seems ok to me and you could do a little self test on that setting.
You can step in and then see what force is required to 'eject' the boot. Your skiing legs should be powerful enough to be able to do this but don't strain anything.
But whatever else you do don't take the kind of nonsense desribed from that ski shop. When they ask your weight you can just ask them to set it to 5.5 if you like..and then they can explain to you why they are setting it to anything different.. And if they are that casual about your settings, chances are they are that casual about the rest of the kit and it would be an indicator to go elsewhere
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so then, if the general consensus is that 5.5 is correct for me, would it mean then that setting them at 7 was too... tight? That they wouldn't have released quick enough?
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Yes, or rather they wouldn't have released at all in some circumstances in which you wished that they had.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 6-03-06 18:59; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Michelle,
You'd need more force for them to release, and you might be travelling too slow for them to work and the leg has to take the hit which would most likley be the knee..
I don't know how you ski and 7 isn't a high setting but you would need a bigger crash to eject out of them than 5.5. But then again 3.5 is likley to just fall off in the first decent turn so you need it to be close to what it should be skill and weight wise
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Red Leon, before I'd recommend cranking up the DINs much, I'd recommend making sure your bindings and boot soles are free of snow and ice, cause that will affect your release. I do have my DINs set slightly higher on my powder skis, but only by about 0.5
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Red Leon,
For me, I'd go up a few notches. It now becomes a degree of a compromise, can you handle 6.5 on piste..and do the skis stay on in deeper stuff better? The snow will be more grabby on the skis in deep stuff and your turns aren't likley to be the cleanest you can make so there will probably be more force on the skis and therefore they fall off easier.
The thing about deep snow is not to panic in your turns - easier said than done, I know.
But a simple....- simple-...answer to the question would be to up the settings a bit...
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As with all things ski related I always appreciate knowing more, especially where safety is concerned. Even more so when I am servicing my childrens skis. Over the last 4 or 5 years they have been using Atomic race 310 and Neox 310 bindings. As well as all the above mentioned criteria for binding settings, I also check the forward toe release pressure is correct if they have new boots or try demo skis. I don't know if all bindings have this facility but presumably if a binding is releasing to early or late the actual position of the heel piece may be incorrect.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| Red Leon, before I'd recommend cranking up the DINs much, I'd recommend making sure your bindings and boot soles are free of snow and ice, cause that will affect your release. I do have my DINs set slightly higher on my powder skis, but only by about 0.5 |
I have heard that a buildup of snow/ice affects the relase - can you explain why this is? Is it as simple as 'jamming' the release mechanism - or does it 'freeze' the boot to the top of the bindings requiring greater force for the release to take place?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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agavin, it can do both, but more importantly, it can mean you are in the binding but are already exerting tension on it, so it might only take a minor knock from you for the ski to release.
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Poster: A snowHead
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agavin, stuck on the sole or toepiece of your boot it can make the boot seem a lot bigger from the bindings point of view. So the binding may hold the boot tighter as the boot is jammed in, or as Fox says it could prevent the binding from closing properly.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wear The Fox Hat and marc gledhill, Thanks for the explanation - hadn't quite got the bit about it causing it to release too easily.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I was skiing powder on Sunday with a setting of 5 (set by the shop). After having the skis come off a few times and nearly get lost I decided to see what the DIN setting was and then upped the setting to 6.5. Now I don't know what the correct setting should be but the next day I had different skis from the same shop and they were set at 8.5! Weight 82 kilos height 6 ft, level advanced. What is the correct setting?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Peter Ross, what is your boot sole length? (and are you under 50)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As a matter of interest is ther any evidence from studies that having an incorrect DIN setting by one or two points makes a difference to injury rates?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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T Bar, I'd be surprised if there was a big difference in injuries between say 8.25 and 8.5.
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ive just got my own skis and never set any up before, some help maybe?
Age 17
Weight 11 stone
Height 5'10
Ability intermediate
Boot Sole Length 328mm
cheers 
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george_1, you need to get a shop to set them up for you, it's not just about setting the DIN (which I'd probably put at 6), but includes the forward release, and may include toe height and wing adjustment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ok ill do that, thanks for the help!! 
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Peter Ross, divide your weight by 10 for a rough guide, it's usually pretty near, so for you 8.5 wasn't that far out.
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