 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@wills_h,until you get caught Follows in both circumstances @aceandy79, it is vehicle excise duty to allow the vehicle to use the public highway, it is a lift pass to allow the person (singular) to use the lift. Stop thinking it is alright for the rest of us to pay for you!
AGAIN I WILL REITERATE IT IS FRAUD, IT IS OUTSIDE THE RULES AND SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED BY ANYONE!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It seems to have offended some in here, for my part I apologise. I should point out that sharing lift passes is not something I've done, but just wouldn't necessarily consider it the fraudulent crime others appear to.
If a person has purchased 6 days of lift pass, but is for whatever reason only able to use 3. Is it really so bad to hand the pass over for someone else to use the remaining 3? Is this not simply getting value for money?
Have you never bought a pay and display parking ticket, left before its expiry and handed it to someone else as you drive out? Or benefited from someone else offering you their ticket? Are these people all frauds/thieves?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@aceandy79, yes if it is stated in the t's and c's that it is not permitted as it is with most lift passes.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thank goodness the lift operators don't run the bars. I imagine it would go like this:
I go to the bar and buy a round of beers. Take them back to my table where my friends are waiting.
Bouncer comes over "Whoa, what are you doing?"
"Er, we're having a beer"
"No those 6 drinks can be consumed by you only. Your friends will have to go to the bar and buy their own drinks".
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| Chris_n wrote: |
| @aceandy79, yes if it is stated in the t's and c's that it is not permitted as it is with most lift passes. |
Indeed. Its pretty simple.
If its not allowed then don't complain of you suffer when you get caught. Otherwise find a resort that allows sharing which some do. Thats the deal you make when you buy under the stated T&C.
I wouldnt do it nor enjoy my holiday if everytime I went through a lift gate I stood a chance of being caught, most likely at the other side of the resort where they confiscate the pass and ban me from buying another!
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I WILL RESORT TO SHOUTY BLOCK CAPITALS TO TRY AND REINFORCE MY POINT.
Whenever I see someone do that for some reason I always picture them as Jacob Rees-Mogg. No idea why.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| aceandy79 wrote: |
Thank goodness the lift operators don't run the bars. I imagine it would go like this:
I go to the bar and buy a round of beers. Take them back to my table where my friends are waiting.
Bouncer comes over "Whoa, what are you doing?"
"Er, we're having a beer"
"No those 6 drinks can be consumed by you only. Your friends will have to go to the bar and buy their own drinks". |
Your friends are underage and not allowed to consume those drinks. You are not underage, you are allowed the drinks you bought. Re-run the scenario and you might get it.
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@aceandy79, everyone who want to enter the bar needs to buy a drink. No sharing of glasses even you only want half a drink. T&C's clearly state glasses cannot be shared (assigned or transferred).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sounds to me like there is place for a transferable / multi owner lift pass and in fact there would be benefits in many ways :-
Parents of young, non ski-ing, children would be accommodated better, be happy with the resort and be more likely to return.
They might spend the money they save on other activities in the resort, benefiting a wider range of business, outside the lift company /ski school cartel. I think diversity / sustainbility are big buzzwords now ? 
Attracting families with that make up would take the pressure off the lift system in peak times, allowing the resort to accomodate more people for the same lift system. Even the environment gains 
I am sure there is somebody more knowledgeable than me who can build that up a bit
What's not to like ? And maybe it's worth considering that these poor, suffering, lift companies that are being robbed from, might be the same ones that, when the weather is bad / there is a lack of snow, lay off the lifties on zero hour contracts, shut just about everything down except the small draglift on the nursery slope and then refuse to issue even a partial refund to reflect their reduced costs in running a reduced operation. Oh, of course, that's in the T's & C's so it's OK then 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Chris_n wrote: |
| Was it ever OK to share one tax disc between 2 cars (when there were tax discs), NO is the answer. You can use all of the same arguments about getting away with it etc but it is just plain wrong! |
Bad example.
Here is a better example. Me and my wife hire a car for a week. We want to share the driving but the hire car company wants to charge us both 7 days car hire.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Ozboy, Sounds spot on, good luck to them 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| CaravanSkier wrote: |
| As a customer perhaps vote with your purse, and only go to a resort offering a pass with the t&c`s that suit you. If resorts with 'family passes' started to take business away from resorts that did not ........... things might change. But I`m guessing it won`t happen. |
If I had known I was breaking the T&C's and/or had been caught on the two occasions I did it I may have looked to see if there were resorts that allowed me to do it legit. I have certainly taken note of the free pass or reduced pass age for children and chosen accordingly.
I think it's clear from this thread and in previous threads on this subject that a) it's still not common knowledge and b) whether you get pulled is a bit hit and miss.
And I still stand by the opinion that morally I don't regard it as theft/stealing whether it's in the T&C's or not. But I wouldn't go as far as encouraging people to knowingly break the T&C's.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@aroma111, If you restrict yourselves to Les Arcs/Peisey-Vallandry (as opposed to Paradiski), you can get 4 hour passes. But 6 x 4 hours is almost as much as a 6-day pass, so if you stick to alternating mornings and afternoons it isn't worth it. But might be worth considering if one of you is going to ski a lot less than the other. If you want to split the skiing equally, then best combination of cost and flexibility is probably going to be whole-day baby sitting and 6 x 1 day passes (for either Les Arcs or Paradiski).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Layne, the point being the tax disc is just for one car same as a lift pass is just for one person. When you hire a car they ask who will be driving and sometimes charge for extra drivers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Chris_n wrote: |
| @Layne, the point being the tax disc is just for one car same as a lift pass is just for one person. When you hire a car they ask who will be driving and sometimes charge for extra drivers. |
Not sure how it affects taxation / cost but in Switzerland one person can register 2 vehicles, and use the same registration number / plates, provided only one of the vehicles is on the road at once.
Sounds very forward thinking 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Not sure why people are being so shouty. Lift passes are not transferable. Many ski areas have a 'parent pass' which enables parents to share a lift pass. If that's what the OP wants to do, then that should influence choice of ski area, otherwise just buy separate day passes. It's really not so difficult.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@skitow, Sensible thinking....perhaps someone should approach Les Arcs lift pass company and make the suggestion.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Chris_n wrote: |
| @Layne, the point being the tax disc is just for one car same as a lift pass is just for one person. When you hire a car they ask who will be driving and sometimes charge for extra drivers. |
But a tax disc could be charged per person and be non-transferable couldn't it? But they don't because the vehicle makes use of the infrastructure the tax disc pays for - not the person. Two people can't drive the vehicle at the same time. Just as two people can't use a lift pass at the same time and only person is using the infrastructure at a time. I use a music streaming service that allows streaming from multiple devices but only one device can be in use at any one time. I am not saying that is what lift pass companies are obligated to do but it seems like fair usage to me.
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I would not break the rules on the lift pass however frustrating. I would suggest looking into childcare options so that you can spend a bit of time skiing together. I think there is a children's club in Arc 1950.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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As a ski pass is a transport ticket I had a quick look on National Rail terms and conditions.
They state for a 7 day pass-
Tickets are not transferable
5.1.
A Ticket may only be used by the person who bought that Ticket or on
whos behalf that Ticket was bought unless specifically allowed by the
terms and conditions applying to that Ticket. A Ticket may not be
resold to anyone else.
Same regulations
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Chris_n wrote: |
| Was it ever OK to share one tax disc between 2 cars (when there were tax discs), NO is the answer. You can use all of the same arguments about getting away with it etc but it is just plain wrong! |
A better example is a Season Ticket at football clubs. Is it OK to share a season ticket for a football team ? The clubs always put non-transferable on the season ticket, but it is common practice. I wonder if many people here have ever 'borrowed' a friends season ticket when their friend is away ?
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We are running a chalet in Paradiski. If passes were transferable we could just get a bunch of season passes, and use them for every group staying, as the visitors are consecutive. Would be a saving of about 75%, and if everyone did it the ski area would go bust.
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You know it makes sense.
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@RobinS, The point was made earlier that season passes are rightly controlled because they represent a huge discount on the weekly rate. That's why they have a photo associated with them.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@aceandy79, worth contacting the lift company to ask officially if they have a parents pass and explain your situation? the Les Arcs lift office was very helpful when my wife and daughter couldn't travel and we'd already bought their lift passes online.
ADS - Domaine Skiable des Arcs / Peisey-Vallandry
Chalet des Villards
Arc 1800
73700 BOURG SAINT MAURICE
FRANCE
Tél. : +33(0)4 79 04 24 00
Email : contact.ads@compagniedesalpes.fr
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Poster: A snowHead
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Having read this correspondance with interest and I must admit amusement I seriously think this forum should not be used as a platform for how to break the law.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| eblunt wrote: |
| Chris_n wrote: |
| Was it ever OK to share one tax disc between 2 cars (when there were tax discs), NO is the answer. You can use all of the same arguments about getting away with it etc but it is just plain wrong! |
A better example is a Season Ticket at football clubs. Is it OK to share a season ticket for a football team ? The clubs always put non-transferable on the season ticket, but it is common practice. I wonder if many people here have ever 'borrowed' a friends season ticket when their friend is away ? |
In recent years season ticket holders at Leicester Tigers can transfer for free. And where a fixture is changed to an evening fixture you can upgrade a junior to an adult for free.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| RobinS wrote: |
| We are running a chalet in Paradiski. If passes were transferable we could just get a bunch of season passes, and use them for every group staying, as the visitors are consecutive. Would be a saving of about 75%, and if everyone did it the ski area would go bust. |
Nope. People aren't talking about seasons passes.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| johnE wrote: |
| Having read this correspondance with interest and I must admit amusement I seriously think this forum should not be used as a platform for how to break the law. |
Well, first of all, it had to be established if it was against the law or not. And then it had to be established if it was policed. Until recently there was no checking of concert tickets for example that would strictly speaking non-transferable. And then thirdly is the question of whether it be morally wrong to do so assuming it wasn't policed. All seems legitimate basis for discussion to me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| And I still stand by the opinion that morally I don't regard it as theft/stealing whether it's in the T&C's or not. |
How bizarre. Care to elaborate?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| TheGeneralist wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And I still stand by the opinion that morally I don't regard it as theft/stealing whether it's in the T&C's or not. |
How bizarre. Care to elaborate? |
If you've read my comments in this thread it should be clear. If it isn't then I am not sure repeating myself will help.
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@TheGeneralist, Morally, ski lifts should be charged on usage. The current system discriminates against the weaker/sick skiers who are unable to ski from first lift up to last lift down. And also against those with dependants such as children who also can't ski a full day. It is these people , who are physically not capable of skiing a full day, who effectively subsidise the fit people who are up on the first lift.
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| TheGeneralist wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And I still stand by the opinion that morally I don't regard it as theft/stealing whether it's in the T&C's or not. |
How bizarre. Care to elaborate? |
I`m no lawyer but I struggle to see it as theft? If passes are specific to one person in the tc`s then it could be breach of contract for sure, and possibly fraud but theft? Unless the law in Europe is different to the UK?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@aroma111, It is possible to ask questions on the Les Arcs site https://www.lesarcs-peiseyvallandry.ski/en/contact - which, out of interest, I just did...
My understanding is therefore that you are allowed to do this but only if you buy it when you arrive and not online.
Transcript below
You :
Can you please confirm that if I was to buy only one 6 day pass when I arrive in Les Arcs that my wife and I can share it so that one of skis and the other looks after our infant daughter. Thank you.
Emma :
Hello, the skipass taken online is named specific but not if you take it at the sale point office
You :
Thank you
Emma :
You're welcome. Have a good day !
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@Ray Zorro, Bravo!
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FAQ
everyone else. They can support you.
Never really got me very far though 