 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi folks...
We've decided that we need to get ourselves some avalanche gear as we're starting to venture further off-piste (than side hits etc.) these days and feel a tad irresponsible not having anything... So, having searched on here and read a few things about probe lengths, shovel make-ups etc. etc. I wanted to post the ones I'm looking at and see what you guys think...
Black Diamiond Recon set
Mammut Barryvox Package Box
ORTOVOX Avalanche rescue kit
I think we're favouring the BD set, purely down to probe length, but wasn't sure if we should be worried about the shovel neck being the collapse point for taking the shovel down...????
Anyway... ALL thoughts and opinions (and recommendations) very welcome folks...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have the Ortovox kit and find it OK. The shovel is sturdy and the tranciever easy to use, after practice.
I've just been on a 2 days course with Avalanche Academy in Cham (highly recommended).
- the best kit is the kit you know how to use and practice on. Practice. Bury a pack (ensure tranciever is on!) and make sure you can find it.
- they changed from Ortovox to Mammut as Stuart believes the build quality is better.
My Ortovox has had the software updated twice. Once I paid, once then on a recall, free and very efficient.
Regarding probe length, 2.4m is the standard. Much below 1.8m and the odds for the victim are not good anyway.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| AlpineAddict wrote: |
| I think we're favouring the BD set, purely down to probe length, but wasn't sure if we should be worried about the shovel neck being the collapse point for taking the shovel down...???? |
What do you mean by that?
All packages seem much of a muchness to me.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Layne, Sorry, the point where the shovel folds, being right on the neck, as opposed to the shaft being longer and the shovel collapsing in size, down the neck...?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| AlpineAddict wrote: |
| @Layne, Sorry, the point where the shovel folds, being right on the neck, as opposed to the shaft being longer and the shovel collapsing in size, down the neck...? |
Difficult to tell without actually getting them in your hands to be honest. We've got four shovels, two with aluminium blades, two with plastic. They are collapse, detach in a similar way.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have a Pieps Sport transponder but my probe, shovel and airbag are all Ortovox. 2.4m is the minimum legth for a probe, but make sure it will fit your airbag.
All of the main brands are high quality kit.
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...
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 4-02-19 17:29; edited 1 time in total
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Metal blade from a real shovel brand. 240 probe if poss. You can worry about things like handle length and dexterity if you want but not a lot of point unless you are hands on.
Not sure I undersatnd neck point - don't all shovels detach at the neck?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think what AlpineAddict is saying is that some shovels detach right next to the shovel head, some shovels detach further up the neck and some are telescopic. The ones that detach close to the shovel head have been known to be slightly weaker at that point and potentially snap when in rigorous use. I have no experience of that myself. Its only what I've read.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, What this man said... @sean_0029,
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thx folks for the feedback... Obviously everyone has their own opinions on what is good and what is not, and I've read all sorts of conflicting thoughts on ths subject...
| bar shaker wrote: |
All of the main brands are high quality kit. |
Sounds a very sensible approach... Thx
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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When we got our kit I talked to the people at Snowsheperd, they sorted a custom package at a very competitive price.
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We've used both the Mammut gear and the Pieps (aka Black Diamond, as far as the transciever is concerned) - both excellent.
I'm sure you've found the various reviews such as https://beaconreviews.com/
As has been said, all of the main brands are good and the most important is to learn to use whatever you buy.
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You know it makes sense.
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@ptex, Thx. Looked at some reviews but not seen this site yet...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As important as the avi equipment you need to know how to use it and practice using it.
You should also get some knowledge about trying to avoid the risks of getting into the an avalanche in the first place. There are talks, courses and practical sessions about using avi gear. There are also talks on avalanche awareness to reduce your risks of being caught in an avalanche.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Without kicking off the probe length debate again, if buying new then go for a 3.0m probe as opposed to 2.4m.
99.99% chance that you will not have to use it anyway.
And as I've also mentioned before take it out the bag and practice with it, I bullshite thee not when we did a practice yesterday in that one person had no clue as to how to put it together.
Also gen up on how to shovel snow, you'd be amazed at how many people don't know how to dig, not just as an individual but working as a team.
Mind you I'm writing this with a crocked back from too much shovelling snow (the wrong way) over the weekend but clearing your garden/car is slightly different to digging someone out!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The Mammut package has the best performing transceiver so I would go with that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm only a holiday skier so I'm just passing on what I've been told....
A guide I skied with earlier this year suggested that the longer probes were really only any use for corpse retrieval, because anyone buried that deep had no chance of being rescued alive. He suggested that digging out someone who is even 2m down quickly enough to save them would take a superhuman effort, and a lot of luck.
Thoughts? ( particularly from anyone who has been involved in digging avalanche debris that deep)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Tom Doc wrote: |
I'm only a holiday skier so I'm just passing on what I've been told....
A guide I skied with earlier this year suggested that the longer probes were really only any use for corpse retrieval, because anyone buried that deep had no chance of being rescued alive. He suggested that digging out someone who is even 2m down quickly enough to save them would take a superhuman effort, and a lot of luck.
Thoughts? ( particularly from anyone who has been involved in digging avalanche debris that deep) |
Yep if you're 2m from the surface you're a long way down. But bear in mind that efficient probing doesn't involve forcing the full length of the probe into the snowpack each time, ideally you want to finish around waist height for easier reps. Avy debris is a bug to dig through - it can be like concrete, it's hard enough to traverse over.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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2.4 m probe - body 1.5m down - how much of your probe is above the ground - just not efficient, but that's not me talking but three of the most respected UK UIAGM Mountain guides
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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In Switzerland the stats show that average burial depth for fatalities is 120cm; 70cm for survivors.
French figures show similar, that survival rates drop rapidly for burials greater than 50cm.
You can see the problems:
i. the deeper you are buried the less chance of having an air pocket or getting any oxygen
ii. risk of being crushed by the snow or being unable to breath due to the weight
iii. digging time: if a 50cm burial is 1 unit of snow to dig, then a 1 meter burial is 8 units and a 2 meter burial is 64 units. As there are limits to how many diggers you can use (and have available) the time to dig someone out increases exponentially
iv. location is less accurate and if you probe it to get an exact location it is going to take a long time
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| But bear in mind that efficient probing doesn't involve forcing the full length of the probe into the snowpack each time, ideally you want to finish around waist height for easier reps. |
Makes sense
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 5-02-19 22:00; edited 1 time in total
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| Quote: |
three of the most respected UK UIAGM Mountain guides
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And who would they be?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Ibexman2, Google Euroavalanche Course.
http://www.euro-avalanche.com/about-us/
The guy that threw my 2.4 probe away was Bruce Goodlad, google him
Again sorry to regulars on here for the scratched record responses.
But hey ho it's the internet.....
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You haven’t really answered my question though have you.
Anyway never mind .....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Weathercam, to be fair to @Ibexman2, it took a while for your post to load in full. When I first saw it it looked like this:
quote="Weathercam"]@Ibexman2, Google Euroavalanche Course.
Again sorry to regulars on here for the scratched record responses.
But hey ho it's the internet.....[/quote]
Snowheads is playing tricks!
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My view is that you probably want to mix and match rather than get a package. The Barryvox beacon comes top of almost every beacon test and has the longest range. I can verify that this works in the real world because when we had to do our avalanche refresher in Canada before heliskiing mine was picking up the target at least 10m and sometimes 20m ahead of the, perfectly adequate, ones provided by the operator. It was also much better at the fine search phase meaning that probing was minimised.
I have the Black Diamond Deploy shovel which I would recommend. It has a curved, slightly shorter shaft and is very strong. The curved shaft improves the dynamics when digging (for me anyway) and also makes it fit very neatly in a Dakine Helipro 20 pack (with the side mount handle option).
I can’t really speak to probes as, due to the beacon accuracy and the fact that (and I hope this continues) I’ve only every been practising and haven’t had to do it for real, I’ve only had to do minimal probing before digging.
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You know it makes sense.
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Alright Tom Doc? If I remember correctly your transceiver out distanced all the other ones for detection, what make is yours?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@wakkitt, how's things?
Mine's a Pieps DSP Pro, I think that Tubaski's Mammut Barryvox was picking things up about as quickly as mine.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Weathercam wrote: |
@Ibexman2, Google Euroavalanche Course.
http://www.euro-avalanche.com/about-us/
The guy that threw my 2.4 probe away was Bruce Goodlad, google him
Again sorry to regulars on here for the scratched record responses.
But hey ho it's the internet..... |
It's a lovely story, gets better every time you tell it. Did he say "next time read the kit list and bring it"?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Weathercam wrote: |
@Ibexman2, Google Euroavalanche Course.
http://www.euro-avalanche.com/about-us/
The guy that threw my 2.4 probe away was Bruce Goodlad, google him
Again sorry to regulars on here for the scratched record responses.
But hey ho it's the internet..... |
Good to see that name again... He guided me on a week in the Monte Rosa region and then on my first (failed) attempt of Mont Blanc... Sound bloke and def knew his stuff back then, so can only imagine his profile has continued to raise over the last decade...
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 6-02-19 16:28; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Blackblade, Also some really useful advice here... Might look into a mix and match situation... Thx
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FAQ
