Poster: A snowHead
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Damien Albert, well known Les 2 Alpes freeride leader/moniteur was killed in an avalanche off piste this afternoon along with one of his clients. A very popular local the town is devastated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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More here
https://www.ledauphine.com/isere-sud/2019/01/29/les-deux-alpes-les-secours-mobilises-sur-une-avalanche
It's hard to see from the photos the exact gradient, but I've done St Christoph a few times from La Grave and would imagine same gradient.
But given the size and extent of the slide which travelled a long way that ridge must have been so loaded.
Again brings it all horribly home.
Where it happened left on the image, off the Breche du Grand Creux - further to the right routes down from La Lauze
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 29-01-19 18:58; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I too have only done it from La Grave. He knew it very well taking groups down there several times a week
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Terrible news
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Very sad. I skied that way down quite a few years ago. From memory, not super steep but certainly steep enough in sections. Got a lot of sun (SW facing) and quite complex route finding. Thoughts with friends and family
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Very sad. I barely knew the guy when I was living out there but he was widely liked and a very good skier. I am very sorry.
While I am not familiar with the current avalanche conditions, I am slightly surprised by the location of the slide. It is plainly steep enough to avalanche but, as Arno says, it is not super steep. This route does not see as much traffic as other options as it involves complex route finding above cliffs, the la Grave option is a better ski and the return is a hassle. I would imagine lack of skier compaction could well be a factor.
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Sad news
The photo in Le Dauphine is more than a little sobering. From where the photo was taken it appears that the slope angle at the avalanche crown is a bit lower than you'd assume is the 'sweet spot' for avalanche activity. There's no steeper slope above where the skiers entered the pitch. There's no obvious convex change to the slope. No obvious terrain trap, so the avalanche debris fans out rather than piling up. Yet the avalanche took two lives. Terribly sad.
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@gorilla, what do you mean by lack of skier compaction?
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Tragic. Those are the sort of conditions where it might be expected for an airbag to work. Is there any evidence they had airbags and wether they were deployed?
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Alpinebear wrote: |
@gorilla, what do you mean by lack of skier compaction? |
If the off-piste route is frequently skied the traffic from all those skiers compacts the underlying snow forming a more solid base and sometimes squeezing a weak layer so that it bonds more effectively. Without skier compaction a weak layer can last for a long time, and with fresh snow falling on top can become very unstable.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar wrote: |
Sad news
The photo in Le Dauphine is more than a little sobering. From where the photo was taken it appears that the slope angle at the avalanche crown is a bit lower than you'd assume is the 'sweet spot' for avalanche activity. There's no steeper slope above where the skiers entered the pitch. There's no obvious convex change to the slope. No obvious terrain trap, so the avalanche debris fans out rather than piling up. Yet the avalanche took two lives. Terribly sad. |
I agree. Whilst I don't know that area, those pictures do make it appear to be a relatively benign slope. I suspect I would have been happy to ski that.
Very sobering indeed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@rob@rar, quite a lot of rocky outcrops from memory which could have been the weak spot. All speculation of course
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Arno wrote: |
@rob@rar, quite a lot of rocky outcrops from memory which could have been the weak spot. All speculation of course |
I don't know that part of the world at all, so all I'm going on is that photo and my speculation could easily miss something quite obvious.
My Facebook feed this morning has plenty of tributes to the guy, who was obviously very well respected. Tragic for the families and friends involved.
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You know it makes sense.
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It had snowed heavily here Sunday, 4/5 Monday, 3 yesterday. There had also been a strong northerly wind higher, very cold.
It is more difficult to take the La Grave route from here now, no tow, so 20 mins hike. So the alternative is possibly used more.
He was always wearing a bag when I saw him around. Suggestion on French news that his transceiver didn't work (connection problem) but I guess that could have been caused during the avalanche. It took them 2 hours to recover him but he was still alive at that point. The other guy's body was recovered in an hour, his tranceiver was working. But he was already dead.
I didn't know him well but had spoken to him a few times, really nice guy. Great skier, in his youth in the French moguls team. He exclusively led Off piste groups, had only just returned from a St Anton trip. RIP
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Quote: |
I don't know that part of the world at all, so all I'm going on is that photo and my speculation could easily miss something quite obvious.
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I looked at my own photos of the slope earlier today. I don't think you are missing something obvious. This is a sobering reminder that even slopes that are not noted accident slopes will slide in the right conditions. I am surprised at the time needed to recover the victims. While this looks like a remote spot, it is no more than a few minutes from the top of the lift. Clearly there must have been complications with the rescue.
Vague memories of him being in Ski Extreme when they mounted my new fat skis and asked me whether I actually knew what I was doing. They had (rightly) marked me as pretty clueless.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Looks steep enough to me, around 30% or so steeper than the La Grave entrance to the same valley which is invariably used on the SoPibash
Still no obvious terrain trap, tragic..........
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have done the St Christoph trip three times in the past but always from La Grave.
Looking up to the right once we were down the first big pitch you could see the tracks coming down from L2A and assuming that is where the accident happened I think it is more than steep enough to avalanche given the right conditions. I think photographs looking up a slope always make a slope look less steep than it really is, or even just looking at a slope from below has the same effect.
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I was going to say, the photograph in the report has that camera perspective thing going on, but if you look it looks plenty steep.
I'm not sure if Google Earth doesn't dick with the vertical scaling to assist, but contours obviously don't lie.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@richjp, you can’t see this route from the first pitch of the “classic” St Christophe route from LG.
If you look up to your right when you are just above St Christophe itself, the route comes out there and you have to take a footbridge over the stream to get into the village itself
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@Weathercam, thanks for the additional maps and google earth - the initial photo is very deceiving. Goes to show, you really shouldn't judge from a series of photos.
Thanks
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I have never skied it neither, but looking at those pictures, it for sure looks above 30 degrees.
Rest in peace
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I've been further studying the terrain etc and now FatMap app gives you a lot more detail for free (might be worth a post in the Off-Piste), so if you stream the LDA / La Grave and then call up the area you can change to the gradient map and it's a good 35+.
I also did a simple calc of 207 m vertical over 470m from my digital mapping software and that gives 44% but that was straight up.
With all the snow forecast over the next few days and strong winds we could well see 5
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Weathercam, wow, I’m amazed how deceptive the initial photo, looking back up at the scree is.
Honestly, from the initial photo alone, I was thinking - not too steep, no terrains traps, looks nice.
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More deaths on a 3/5 day. The report says the area had 20-30cm the night before, it must have looked tempting.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@bar shaker, that was the night before that. In French, this night is last night and the night before is 2 nights ago. I know ....
They do show an awful lot of respect here when this sort of thing happens. For both victims there was a mass in the local church tonight which looked very well attended, it's across the road from my place. After a private mass and internment on Saturday there will be a homage in the main square on Sunday evening. I expect that to be extremely well attended.
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