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Binding angles

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi,

I think I've set different angles on my board every time I have gone on holiday without any reasoning, just to try something different really....
I can't do switch, but its something I need to learn as I am getting more into the park and jumps still cant do spins properly though, but assuming I dont ride switch, spend most of the time on the piste with a few jumps thrown in what angles should I start with, something like 18/0?

Do people change the angles through the day if they're going from piste to park or is it best to get used to one set of angles and stick with them?

Thanks
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
A very general rule is that you want to have about 30 degrees maximum between both feet with you back foot pointing a little towards your tail. I like 18/-12 for general riding and park but may go 21/-9 if I want a more aggressive ride.... Here's a good overview of what the pros use... note almost everyone is different..

https://whitelines.com/snowboard-gear/set-up-maintenance/pro-snowboarder-stances-binding-angles.html#VM0A5I1x5f1x1gyx.97
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@fredbob, I'd start with 15/-15 and see how you go. If you get outside footpain try 18/-12. The 30 rule is a good rule of thumb though not a law.
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I'm generally +15, -9. I find it I go more duck I seem to wash out my turns a bit. No pain either. I suggest roughly those angles too. I guess it's all sliding down water at an angle at the end of the day.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Out of interest why would different binding angles hurt the outside of your foot, am interested as I sometimes get that. I ride 15/-15 on all boards currently
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@grahamt1980, it affects how you apply pressure across the width of your foot. Too wide and you push the pressure on the outside edge of your foot, too naffow and it goes to the inside. 30deg is too much angle for me - i'm something like a 12/-8. Also can be a sign you've got your stance too narrow as your knees will roll your feet over as you extend through the turn.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@fredbob, everybody's different, I'm having to make some major changes because I've a large chunk of Mechano holding my right leg together. Changing foot positions also alters your upper body articulation which can have a negative/positive/neutral effect on your riding.
Do the socks on a slippery floor slide test to a standstill and look down at your foot angles. That will give you an idea of what your body wants to do rather than what your mind or the Internet is telling it. It is ALL about comfort in ease of full range of movement. Snowboarding is a lot like a really good dancer that doesn't move their feet but you never notice that.
You should be able to get down to a full squat with no discomfort and still be able to move your hips side to side to allow edge pressure changes through either foot.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
That all makes a lot of sense, stance width seems to make a difference too.
with that knowledge it's time to experiment I think.
cheers
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I think I need to experiment with my stance width as well, but I can't do a proper decent squat as I have tight hamstrings ( doing lots of stretches at the mo) and it seems I also have poor ankle mobility as well, apparently if you put your big toe 10cm from a wall you should be able to bend your leg without raising your heel and touch the wall with your knee, i cant get close.....

I'll try the slippery floor thing as well

thanks
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As Masque indicated:

1) Find a corridor with a highly polished wooden floor.
2) Suspend a camera from the ceiling pointing down at the floor (set to record).
3) Wearing thick, furry, woolly socks, and with a running start, proceed to slide as far as possible along the floor.
4) Review the video recording and analyse the angles of your feet with respect to the line connecting them.
5) From the video, measure the distance between the centre points of your feet.

There you are, your angles and stance width! snowHead

However, I suspect that you'd adopt a narrower stance width on a polished floor, vs on a board.
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fredbob

Don't be afraid to spend a whole couple of days mucking about with your settings, both angle and stance width. 'General' advice is just that and the more you board the more you'll realise that it's more about what works for you as an individual.

Many years ago I almost packed in 'boarding as I was unhappy with progress ....... I spent three days in the mountains moving binding settings around until I found some relatively (by what people are suggesting above) wierd settings to develop with.

While the 30deg spread might work for some I'm still no where near that even now ....... so just go with what you're happy with.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Trial an error
11, -9 for me with my left foot binding offset to heel hedge to help me get more pressure down. Best adjustment I made!
This allows me to board leading with either foot.

As for riding switch, lighten the weight from the back foot by transfering it the front leg, initialise a turn using your shoulders (move your front shoulder out & back shoulder in) & if the tail should come around to the front naturally.

I think there is a pro rider (Im sure its an asian fella) who rides with a negative front foot!
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
BCjohnny wrote:
fredbob

Don't be afraid to spend a whole couple of days mucking about with your settings, both angle and stance width.


I know you're right, but when I get there I just want to go out!! haha
I am going again soon so I will try and set aside a couple of days to experiment with


Mr Egg - so you have the front foot binding (assuming you're regular) further back than the rear one? I've never heard of that before is that just something you tried yourself? Does that help with heel side turns, they are the ones I am washing out on at the moment and end up swinging my back leg round on too soon
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Best progression I ever had was a week with my mrs, who tends to ride a fair bit slower than me. I spent that trip perfecting switch riding and gradually shifting from a 0 angle on the back foot to a pure duck stance (plus and minus 15 or so).
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I'm not sure about this sliding around on wooden floors bizniz. This may work better, it did for me. Stand and jump forward going down to a squat when landing. Stand up and measure your stance width, and feet positions. Do this a few times and at different heights and you should start seeing a common width and angles. This is a good place to start. Then, if you can go to a local fridge and test - this leaves your mountain time for fun fun fun!
snow conditions
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
crosbie wrote:
As Masque indicated:

1) Find a corridor with a highly polished wooden floor.
2) Suspend a camera from the ceiling pointing down at the floor (set to record).
3) Wearing thick, furry, woolly socks, and with a running start, proceed to slide as far as possible along the floor.
4) Review the video recording and analyse the angles of your feet with respect to the line connecting them.
5) From the video, measure the distance between the centre points of your feet.

There you are, your angles and stance width! snowHead

However, I suspect that you'd adopt a narrower stance width on a polished floor, vs on a board.


This wouldn't get close to my riding style. If I ran down a wooden corridor and into a slide, I would go right foot forward. On a board though, I ride regular.
When I started boarding I went close to +24 / +0 (left foot forward - not right foot forward like I would on an ice slide). As I progressed and started playing with switch, I have ended up +15 / -15. I still like to hit the mountain pretty hard regular and have no issues with the duck stance. Something I do notice with some beginner boarders is their stance is often too narrow. This makes it harder to initiate a turn. A good exercise on the slope is to raise your arms along the line of the board - one out in front, one out behind. This holds your shoulders and body in position. As you initiate a turn, point your forward arm in the direction you want to go. This will turn your shoulders, then hips, and then apply the correct pressure on the board. Always remember your weight needs to be on the front foot as you learn to turn (once you have this in the bag, you can have your weight wherever you like). It might look a little silly as you practise a few turns with your arms up, but it sure works.
Like most folks on here are saying, there is no fixed rule. Try a few angles and stance widths, but be sure to give them a decent try. Every time you make a change might take some getting used to before you can appreciate what the difference makes to your ride.
Above all, relax and enjoy!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@craigiemack, Yup, each to their own. It's all worth a try. Very Happy

Another technique is to stand on the board (without bindings), with feet roughly over the binding holes, and make out like a snowboarder, frequently crouching and rising, and once the feet have settled down into comfortable positions get a friend to chalk an outline around the feet. The stance can thereafter be tweaked to be centred across and along the board as appropriate.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I have two boards, one for powder and one for piste charging. I'm using different angles on each.

On my powder board, I am +15 -12, on my piste board I am +20 -5.

In my early days of riding, I found the sock slide thing useful but it works better if you do it with the wrong lead foot. This is because you will have most of your weight over the back foot in the slide and when you are learning, the foot with the most pressure will be your lead foot. This gets your individual angles better for your pressure and knee bends. I also did it slightly differently in that I held two sheets of paper and a pen for the slide. When I stopped, I slide the paper under my foot positions and drew around my feet. I could then draw my centrelines and extend them across the floor, to work out the total angle plus the foot angles relative to my direction of slide (which should be pointing back at where you started). I could also measure my distance between centre of feet for stance width. It helps if someone does it with you!

I've now marked the inside edges of each binding position with a marker pen, to get them back in the same places quickly, after a service (I have ICS boards). When they are right, you shouldn't get any pain on the inside or outside of your feet or knees.

After a bad leg break, the angle of my left foot changed slightly and I had to re-do my angles. It took a few rides and adjustments to be 100% happy.
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The night after reading this thread I dreamt I was trying some new binding positions. I had my front binding about 12, rear about -5.... and middle at 0 Shocked Shocked Shocked
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
craigiemack wrote:
... Always remember your weight needs to be on the front foot as you learn to turn (once you have this in the bag, you can have your weight wherever you like). ...

A lot of novice snowboarders do have their weight predominantly on their front leg or their back leg.
That's one of the reasons they're novices.

I'm probably crap at sliding on floors, but for snowboarding, surfing and noboarding I use different stances because the action is different.
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Just to add a brief clarification, the 30deg rule of thumb above is a suggested maximum, not a target. The more general suggestion is somewhere between 20 and 30deg.

I ride 15 / -15 on most of my boards because I ride a LOT of switch for teaching. On my freeride boards I might tweak it forward a bit for no particular reason. Have happily ridden freeride boards at 15/-15 too. When I was working hard on technique I also found the symmetrical stance helped keep me aligned and in good posture. Also helped to stop my back knee collapsing in.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
philwig wrote:
craigiemack wrote:
... Always remember your weight needs to be on the front foot as you learn to turn (once you have this in the bag, you can have your weight wherever you like). ...

A lot of novice snowboarders do have their weight predominantly on their front leg or their back leg.
That's one of the reasons they're novices.

I'm probably crap at sliding on floors, but for snowboarding, surfing and noboarding I use different stances because the action is different.


I don't noboard, but I surf (a lot) and snowboard pretty much identical stance, though the back foot gets 'closed from -9 to zero by the kick in the tail pad when hitting the lip, for driving down the line of maybe cruising on a mal the back foot is definitely around -9, you can see it in the wear on the tailpad blocks.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
fredbob wrote:



Mr Egg - so you have the front foot binding (assuming you're regular) further back than the rear one? I've never heard of that before is that just something you tried yourself? Does that help with heel side turns, they are the ones I am washing out on at the moment and end up swinging my back leg round on too soon


no, my back foot is further back, so my heel is over the edge a bit more.
I have a weird knee issue & I cannot get pressure down on my heel. I only have to bend my knee a little & my heel lifts.
It was trial & error for me.
Naturally I lead with my left, but because of the knee weakness I try to stay on my right as front foot. This is more for stability & to get weight forward. I can still overturn when leading this way, but I dont mind riding what feels more natural to me until I switch back.


As for you swinging your back leg to soon, are you rolling your back shoulder in to early/to much?
Stretch your back arm out (almost like a rudder) towards the back of the board. Idea is to keep that arm pointing at the tail of the board.
you know if your rolling your shoulder as your arm will twist & you will feel it twisting. You could even be turning your head to much which is bringing your back shoulder inwards.

Similar you can use your front arm to point at a fixed spot when you turn. Keep your eyes on the spot & your finger pointing at the spot.
This will make your shoulder turn your hips, your knee & your board.
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@Mr.Egg and @craigiemack, your shoulders should not be « turning your hip, your knee and your board ». You ride your board from the feet up, not from the top down.

We don’t (as some seem to think) have to be holding our shoulders rigid at all times, but pressure and weight-shifts come from the feet and maybe the knees, with movements of the shoulders as required to maintain posture and balance.

I’m on-board with keeping hands over the nose/tail to help maintain alignment, but pointing with the front hand is very outdated technique and leads to rotation of the board and skidding.
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@stevomcd,

Turn your head far enough it will move your shoulder, then hip, then knee.
the pointing is to get an idea of how your body reacts & how it moves other parts of your body.
Equally, roll your knee out & keep your foot planted & your hip will move out & then your shoulder.
You need to think about all elements, but once your used to the position of how each part interact, you get that feeling of where your body needs to be in the right position.
By using your knees first, it does not help knowing the hip & shoulder positions. By doing it in reverse, it sets your shoulders, sets your hips & eventually the board moves.
Its reverse engineering the turn. Once you get the feel of where the rest of your body is when the turn starts, you can drop each element.


Like a drag lift, when you learn, you point, once you done learning, you no longer need to point as you know the position your body needs to be in.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Mr.Egg, nope. Disagree with all of that. « Reverse engineering the turn » makes no sense at all to me. Learn to control the board from the ground up with a static/passive upper body.

The only time you should be actively using your shoulders is in freestyle where there is a need for separation of the upper and lower body.

Why teach something that just has to be unlearned later?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Mr.Egg wrote:
... Turn your head far enough it will move your shoulder, then hip, then knee....

Can you post a video of someone trying to turn a board like that?
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Mr.Egg wrote:
@stevomcd,

Turn your head far enough it will move your shoulder, then hip, then knee.
the pointing is to get an idea of how your body reacts & how it moves other parts of your body.
Equally, roll your knee out & keep your foot planted & your hip will move out & then your shoulder.
You need to think about all elements, but once your used to the position of how each part interact, you get that feeling of where your body needs to be in the right position.
By using your knees first, it does not help knowing the hip & shoulder positions. By doing it in reverse, it sets your shoulders, sets your hips & eventually the board moves.
Its reverse engineering the turn. Once you get the feel of where the rest of your body is when the turn starts, you can drop each element.


Like a drag lift, when you learn, you point, once you done learning, you no longer need to point as you know the position your body needs to be in.


pillock! rolling eyes That is probably the most appalling pile of pap ever written about how to snowboard . . . PLEASE post a video of you demonstrating this.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
philwig wrote:
Mr.Egg wrote:
... Turn your head far enough it will move your shoulder, then hip, then knee....

Can you post a video of someone trying to turn a board like that?


not on a board. like my post says, keep your feet planted. its to demonstrate how the body parts move when other parts move.
You see plenty of beginners who struggle with the positioning of their body as they concentrate so much on manoeuvre. flaying the arms, leaning over/forward, looking down, etc. All mostly because they have not grasped they need to use the whole body.
ts one of the more difficult elements to understand, since everyone positions the body differently. However, by them learning the positioning of the body, it becomes more natural.
Then do it on a board with a gentle slope.

Using this technique to show/explain the position of the hips, shoulders & head to the turn, I have helped both my brothers & a skiing mate who swapped to boarding. My skiing mate was ruddering with his back foot, both brothers leaning forward at the hips.

Ask 10 people to look behind them, some will turn using their heads, others the hips, some from the legs. All done differently.
Ask 10 people to take a seat then chances are they will stand in front of seat, bend the knees, etc. into a seating position.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Mr.Egg, whilst you apparently have an inkling about biomechanical kinetic processes/relationships, your application of this limited knowledge is appallingly bad, intrinsically confusing and dangerous. PLEASE STOP.
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