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Why are there so many idiots on the slopes?/Pole-tapping

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@clarky999, well said Sir !!!!

Can't quite believe this thread has generated into the do and dont's of pole tapping rolling eyes

KenX, and I were talking about this thread earlier, and I recalled how a good few years ago I was skiing down with one of my Jacks in my backpack as she was quite an old girl and was finding it tough, then we joined a long valley chemin where walkers and XC skiers were proceeding along with other skiers at a very gentle gradient.

Now Pooch could bark on command, the only trouble was that her bark was more like a quack so as I skied up behind them I made her bark and the people in front turned round scowling thinking I had some electronic klaxon, it was only when I passed and they saw Pooch did they see the funny side of it Toofy Grin

Anyway at least pole tapping is better than shoulder charging someone off into the trees Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Amazing how it seems to come over all skier vs snowboarder on here.
soon Sunday some knob (was a skier but doesn't matter) managed to take out my wife heading to the lift. She was making a gentle turn and he slammed into her from behind.
I get the feeling some on here would condemn her because she was on a snowboard.
seriously people of you are considering differences like this then you need to really reassess your lives.
everyone uses the piste, it's just some people are dicks irrespective of using 1 or 2 planks
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@grahamt1980, I think the only person who would have possibly condemned her.. i.e. for being a snowboarder doing nothing wrong at all...would have been the OP, but he's gone off in a huff now
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That's cool. Wasn't a dig at snowheads as the vast majority are cool on here.
was interesting about the comments where skiers don't always understand how snowboarders can move around.
that's definitely real and actually having that knowledge would help a lot of people on both sides, boarders understanding how skiers move too
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grahamt1980 wrote:
Amazing how it seems to come over all skier vs snowboarder on here.
soon Sunday some knob (was a skier but doesn't matter) managed to take out my wife heading to the lift. She was making a gentle turn and he slammed into her from behind.
I get the feeling some on here would condemn her because she was on a snowboard.
seriously people of you are considering differences like this then you need to really reassess your lives.
everyone uses the piste, it's just some people are dicks irrespective of using 1 or 2 planks


Maybe I've been reading wrong but I haven't noticed anyone being disrespectful to boarders. A bit of obvious banter but nothing more
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No worries, just picking up on the first page that's all.
all good, back from loads of pow today so the world is good
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Quote:

However these days I just whistle a song while zipping along cat tracks, which hopefully works just as well while being less confusing/stressful fir beginners.


I like the idea of whistling a nice tune Very Happy

I don't have poles being a pesky snowboarder and like to carry a bit of speed on a cat tracks for obvious reasons. I often say "excuse-me", "on your left" or whatever ideally in the in the local language before I pass safely* . A nod or a "thank you" as I pass helps too.

*rather than using it in the hope/expectation that the person ahead will make way for me
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@clarky999,
Gilberts Fridge wrote:


If you can't get passed the skier in front safely, take a chill pill, smile, and enjoy the slow tree lined glide to the next lift, for we were all that beginner or nervous skier at one point.


If you can pass them safely then do, lets be honest how often do you come across someone who is that nervous and taking up the whole track, not that often where I ski and there are a few cat tracks.
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Bet there's a strong crossover between skiers who tap their poles and motorists who flash their lights when coming up behind someone overtaking on a dual carriageway or motorway.
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[quote="Gilberts Fridge"]@clarky999,
Gilberts Fridge wrote:


how often do you come across someone who is that nervous and taking up the whole track, not that often where I ski and there are a few cat tracks.


True. They're usually easy to spot with their massive snow plough and windmilling arms
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I don't think I'm unusual in alternating between straight lining and short radius turns on cat tracks depending on gradient and what/who's around me.

If someone is about to pass me on a tight track I would be quite happy for them to click their poles or shout on your right/left so that i put off breaking out into turns until they've safely passed. I'd rather not have a collision Smile
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dave_3 wrote:
They're usually easy to spot with their massive snow plough and windmilling arms
That's right, you can tell a bit about a skiers competence from the way they are skiing, and in the case of the flailing windmill I'd give them a bit more space, just like I'll give a snowboarder a bit more space on their heel side (with a preference to passing on their toe side). Seems to me that's as much about ensuring I don't get tangled up with another slope user as it is about being respectful to them.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
dode wrote:
@pinhead, Where do you ski? Because pole tapping isn't common edict ime. It is used by a small minority.

I ski in the west of N America with 1 trip to Italy and some of the narrow cat tracks of the Sella Ronda were quite busy and yes I'd occasionally tap my poles, but yelling on your left/ right means 50% turn their heads and start moving in that direction, and just zipping by means they may freak out and crash causing more havoc for others on the track, I'll be past it though.
Traverses are an area where letting someone else know you are coming up on them is considered polite, especially if they are not comfortable and struggling, one moment to move out of the way versus a pack of experienced traverse skiers on your heels. Never met anyone who would rather have a pack of better skiers on their heels, now there's stress.


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Wed 30-01-19 16:29; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

I don't think I'm unusual in alternating between straight lining and short radius turns on cat tracks depending on gradient and what/who's around me.

If someone is about to pass me on a tight track I would be quite happy for them to click their poles or shout on your right/left so that i put off breaking out into turns until they've safely passed. I'd rather not have a collision


I'd be aware of people around me before I make that switch. But in any case, if someone is so close to you that you don't have room to make a short turn then they are too close. They way to avoid the problem is don't get so close not click your poles.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
dave_3 wrote:
... If only we could get snowboarders to read this Laughing

Perhaps we are.

As a snowboarder, I don't ride in straight lines most of the time, so simply I have to look behind before I make broad turns in order to not get injured.
If skiers are able to carve, then they'll do the same thing, or whine on about boy scout rules until seriously injured.
-> It's the same for skiers and snowboarders, in that sense.

Overtaking skiers or snowboarders on a [narrow] cat track is the same problem but with less room for mitigating the risk.

As a snowboarder I probably care more about my momentum than the people with the sticks, although mostly speeds are moderate when that's a factor. For snowboarders looking behind on a cat track is very easy as you're half way there. I don't find pole clicking remotely rude, although you'd have to catch me to be able to do it, and you probably wouldn't bother because I don't look like I'm going to do something unpredictable.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
jedster wrote:


I'd be aware of people around me before I make that switch. But in any case, if someone is so close to you that you don't have room to make a short turn then they are too close. They way to avoid the problem is don't get so close not click your poles.


Hmm - what's yoru radius of a short turn? I don't expect anyone to give me that kind of leeway let alone the "short turn" room of an overterrained beginner (measured in supertanker lengths - fortunately the turn also takes a similar time).
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If you are oevrtaking me on a cat-track please tap your poles to let me know you are there.

I am AMAZED that so many others find it rude or unpleasant!

I do it to others, it is just a way of saying "I am here, you would probably prefer to know that"

I certainly prefer to know...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I used to have a tiny cowbell attached to a glove. Having read numerous tales of getting clobbered while doing nothing wrong on this thread, I might dig them out and reattach (even if it's bit gadge!) Very Happy
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rungsp, I don't mind someone alerting me with a pole taps, when I learned to ski, our instructor suggested it was good form not to spook the person you were passing on a narrow path. On wider cat tracks with lots of room I wouldn't need to, .
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rob@rar wrote:
holidayloverxx wrote:
Who changed the thread title and why?
I don't know, but the video in the opening post has been deleted or made unavailable on Vimeo, presumably by the person who posted it, and the formatting on the first page is now a bit screwed up.


I would imagine the video being removed from the page disrupted the formatting, I also kind of understand why the OP has gone quiet, but he did ask for it in his opening post................
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As a snowboarder (17st 6'3") on a 6'7" Lib Tech Doughboy Shredder, when I'm on narrow tracks (especially choppy & rutted ones) I have to plan several manouvre contingencies ahead. You can get away with spinning/alternating a 3'-4' board on a track to dump speed, but a 6'7" plank is pretty much locked on 'straight ahead', as otherwise it's bound to knock someone or something. So, perhaps that's why when I fancy overtaking in such situations, I have a longer wait for a low risk opportunity than most.

When skiers are almost squeezed by the chap they're overtaking against a snow wall, they have the option of a mild snowplough to slow down (aborting the overtake), but all I have is a glove scraping the wall or the ground (pretty ineffective) - the tail wheelie is an emergency-only option (would probably break my board). So, I have to avoid getting into such situations. I have got into them once or twice, but fortunately they didn't turn into calamity. I have to make sure that should any squeeze occur, I have an exit (up/down side bank). I also have a look at the skier weaving ahead to see if they like going right up to the sides - often they seem to be happy to just take up 70%, usually biased left or right.
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On a slightly different note, am I alone in sometimes 'indicating' before I turn? I only do it on aforesaid cat tracks or where I think someone is following closely behind and it's usually when I haven't been doing any turns until that point. My 'indicator' just takes the form of a rather premature and exaggerated pole plant that pauses for a second before the actual plant. A bit like you see instructors doing sometimes, but perhaps even earlier.

Obviously I have every right to slam on the anchors and turn straight in front of anyone Very Happy but this seems a polite and easy way of increasing safety margins.
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@foxtrotzulu, I do if I am going to cross a slope or significantly change direction, e.g spot the turning a bit late. Sometimes exaggerated pole plant but sometimes arm out...and I always look before moving - MSM
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foxtrotzulu wrote:
On a slightly different note, am I alone in sometimes 'indicating' before I turn?


If I'm briskly boarding down the centre of a piste and need to take an exit piste, because my behaviour is about to suddenly change, I stick my respective arm out - just in case there is an even faster skier who intended to overtake me on that side.
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rungsp wrote:
If you are oevrtaking me on a cat-track please tap your poles to let me know you are there.

I am AMAZED that so many others find it rude or unpleasant!

I do it to others, it is just a way of saying "I am here, you would probably prefer to know that"

I certainly prefer to know...

I too, prefer to know. So I don't find it rude. And I do it too, when appropriate.

Some the people who found it rude are based on the assumption the pole tapper is actually saying "get the h* out of my way". It was the wrong assumption, especially when applied to ALL pole tappers. A bit like the OP who assume everyone who doesn't go in a straight line are "idiots" being an ignorant idiot himself.
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I think that learning Morse Code, should be part of ski school....so we can all use pole tapping as a universal language. Madeye-Smiley
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I defintely point with my arm when crossing a convergent base area where there are multiple lifts. It is ASTONISHING how even where there are multiple converging runs how few people ever deviate from looking straight ahead, maybe they all have special force fields?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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rob@rar wrote:
anarchicsaltire wrote:
When I hear someone tapping behind me on a narrow cat track I usually respond by introducing as many movements and shape changes as possible.

I see no reason why I can't reply in semaphore if they are using morse.
Happy

Last winter a skier behind me had some bells attached to his ski pole and shook them vigorously as he came up behind me. I took great exception and used a word my grandmother would not be proud of as he skied past. Turns out it's recognised in other languages as well as English. This was not on a cat track but a very wide, flat piste were two pistes join, one slightly slower than the other. In order to pass me he had to move to one side, which probably meant he lost a fraction of is speed, so I guess the jangling of the bells was a bit of a "get out of my way, I'm coming through". I did not take kindly to such rudeness, so let him know what I thought. He continued to jangle his fecking bells at other skiers in front of him. It's confusing and discourteous, and shouldn't be done.


That would annoy me too! Who has bells on their poles??! Perhaps he thought he was Santa! What n*b. Sounds like he was making his own rules up; a gentle pole tap or even a little cowbell as mentioned above I can understand but using bells like a horn is completely rude.


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Wed 30-01-19 18:16; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
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@Dave of the Marmottes,
Quote:

Hmm - what's yoru radius of a short turn? I don't expect anyone to give me that kind of leeway let alone the "short turn" room of an overterrained beginner (measured in supertanker lengths - fortunately the turn also takes a similar time).

come on - don't be obtuse. You don't need to leave room for the whole turn just room to react to the move from straight to turning
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

On a slightly different note, am I alone in sometimes 'indicating' before I turn? I only do it on aforesaid cat tracks or where I think someone is following closely behind and it's usually when I haven't been doing any turns until that point. My 'indicator' just takes the form of a rather premature and exaggerated pole plant that pauses for a second before the actual plant. A bit like you see instructors doing sometimes, but perhaps even earlier.




I do that but I also make a big point to where I'm going if I'm conscious someone is tracking me at similar speed and I'm about to make a significant course change. In some case I've gone to the point of turning and getting eye contact. But then I cycle to work every day so defensive thinking is pretty embedded.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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@jedster, Being obtuse on this thread is my light relief. Give me something. The real world is horrific enough.
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crosbie wrote:
foxtrotzulu wrote:
On a slightly different note, am I alone in sometimes 'indicating' before I turn?


If I'm briskly boarding down the centre of a piste and need to take an exit piste, because my behaviour is about to suddenly change, I stick my respective arm out - just in case there is an even faster skier who intended to overtake me on that side.


similar here - I will indicate my direction with my arm. Especially if there is a nervous skier & we manage to make eye contact & just acknowledge my planned route.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Mr.Egg, @Dave of the Marmottes, @crosbie, Me too, especially if its a heel-side turn.
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Oh la vache, been silent lurking in this thread, but decided to join the fun Twisted Evil

I'm trying to understand if there's something I missed from the logic of pole tapping, but I'll first try to sum up how pole tapping 'works', as objective as I humanely could, based on the exchange here (and some other thread that touch this issue); so under the assumption (as to adhere to FIS rule):

- pole tapper shouldn't expect the downhill person to behave in a specific way from hearing the pole tap, and
- pole tapping doesn't exempt pole tapper from liability in case of a crash;

This makes pole tapping's one and only purpose limited as a mean to communicate "Let the downhill person recognizes that there's a person behind them".

Now here's the problem: what's the point of letting the downhill person to recognize that there's someone behind them/ehat to do with this information? Realistically (as evidenced from the exchange in this thread), both parties can intend/perceive the pole tapping as a "hello", "get the feck out my piste", "good day, I'm behind so please don't make sudden moves, m'kay?", or even "you dropped your gopro in front of the lift", and there's no way for the downhill person to know the supposed meaning of said pole tap, nor for the pole tapper to know how his/her pole tap is going to be perceived by the downhill person.

So now I'm going to ask to pole-tapper: how do you make sure that the downhill person will understand the meaning of your pole tap as you intended?

I can't see how it's possible unless pole tapping is formally introduced as some kind of "official rule" (whatever that means). So, I can only conclude that your intent to communicate with pole tap, however well-intentioned it is, already fail before you start tapping those poles.

I'm actually more interested in continuous whistling/wearing cow bell as a more 'neutral' solution, but imagine if everyone's start doing it Laughing
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@bashing,
yep _ I think that is a neat recap of the very sound argument Rob made a few pages back
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@Dave of the Marmottes, Very Happy
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@Alastair, PMSL!
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I'm up for a bit of jingle jangle.




Too soon to invoke the ghost of now then now then?
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@bashing, how do you know someone is creeping up from behind you?

Do you look behind frequent? Or you just don’t care to know, period?

And if it’s the latter, do you believe no one care to know? Or no one should even care to know?
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