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Why are there so many idiots on the slopes?/Pole-tapping (5), snowHeads ski forum
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Why are there so many idiots on the slopes?/Pole-tapping

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
holidayloverxx wrote:
@Old Fartbag, DOTM = Dave of the Marmottes

Embarassed

Thx

When I looked it up, I got "Diarrhoea of the Mouth"! Toofy Grin
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@JamesHJ, ..I’d say very similar to my experience. People who start a conflict ... possibly because they are themselves already running scared by the situation...and underneath it all just want to get out as quickly as possible. Well done for being proactive yet unaggressive in getting his car details.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@dsoutar, I’ve been skiing around today with this thread in mind and I think you’re right about cycling and instinctively checking it’s safe to proceed. I think I do it without thinking too, I don’t have a bicycle but I have had motorbikes and when you ride a motorbike or a bicycle regularly I think it makes you more aware generally of what’s around you compared to driving a car. I feel that doing my motorbike test definitely made me a better car driver in terms of awareness.
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There is a lot to be said for skiing only in the morning. At least then you avoid those who have been drinking at lunchtime and ski in the afternoon, when if they were driving would surely fail a breathalyser test.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Old Fartbag, ...oooops....sorry....just being lazy typing DOTM ... note to self...always check the acronyms, given the yoof-driven and text-driven proliferation of TLAs - er....Three Letter Abbreviations....or more - Regards and Best Wishes (RBW), Have a Nice Day (HND) and over-and-out (OAO), Valais2.
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@nigelg, ...we have a bit of an argument in our household. I like to ski low in the morning, whilst the snow is good low down, and then head up high in the pm, and often then take the gondola down before the Big Rush, or ski down very late as the pistes are patrolled, or later (but before the bashers put their wires out). This is entirely in conflict with my partner, who heads up high as possible in the morning (and thus follows the big crowds and gets stuck in the lift lines) and heads down with the pack. Deep down I know that I am profoundly right, but am prepared to concede...how very generous and pompous of me....
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
valais2 wrote:
@Old Fartbag, ...oooops....sorry....just being lazy typing DOTM ... note to self...always check the acronyms, given the yoof-driven and text-driven proliferation of TLAs - er....Three Letter Abbreviations....or more - Regards and Best Wishes (RBW), Have a Nice Day (HND) and over-and-out (OAO), Valais2.

Nothing to apologise for. I was a bit slow on the uptake.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
valais2 wrote:
Deep down I know that I am profoundly right, but am prepared to concede...how very generous and pompous of me....

You can be Right....Or you can be Happy.....but you can seldom be both. Lesson learned from 30 years of marriage. Madeye-Smiley
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I think the standard of behaviour has deteriorated a lot in the last few years with cyclists and skiers/boarders.
I can't help wondering if a percentage (not all) of it is due to the increase in helmet wear and the false sense of security this can give both disciplines and the negative effect it has on the speeds people travel at as a consequence.
Riding a bike and winter sports are a skill after all.

#justanopinion


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 28-01-19 15:15; edited 1 time in total
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
valais2 wrote:
@JamesHJ, ..I’d say very similar to my experience. People who start a conflict ... possibly because they are themselves already running scared by the situation...and underneath it all just want to get out as quickly as possible. Well done for being proactive yet unaggressive in getting his car details.


It's much, much, funnier as well :- )
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@JamesHJ, fortunately yes....although how was your nose in the long run? Not as cream-crackered as my tooth I hope....
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Old Fartbag wrote:
holidayloverxx wrote:
@Old Fartbag, DOTM = Dave of the Marmottes

Embarassed

Thx

When I looked it up, I got "Diarrhoea of the Mouth"! Toofy Grin


Fair
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
slopestyless wrote:
I think the standard of behaviour has deteriorated a lot in the last few years with cyclists and skiers/boarders.
I can't help wondering if a percentage (not all) of it is due to the increase in helmet wear and the false sense of security this can give both disciplines and the negative effect it has on the speeds people travel at as a consequence.
Riding a bike and winter sports are a skill after all.

#justanopinion


Gold dust! That's the way to quality troll right there!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
thecramps wrote:
@davidof, a link from the end of that vid was this


http://youtube.com/v/T0YuY3T29hw

Something I have seen in Tignes a few times on a uni student week. Sadly.


I didn’t look at this properly until now
Why do they put themselves through this!? Laughing
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
holidayloverxx wrote:
@Old Fartbag, DOTM = Dave of the Marmottes

Embarassed

Thx

When I looked it up, I got "Diarrhoea of the Mouth"! Toofy Grin


Fair

Yup!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
davidof wrote:
peter_h wrote:

My understanding, from a number of skiers, is that a skier or snowboarder can do absolutely anything on the slope and if somebody who was upslope hits them, it is the latter's fault 100%.


That seems like the only rule that is possible really, even if I'd like it otherwise. Take Saturday, I've never seen our local resort so rammed with people, it was like Beijing Mountain. We saw one piste with a big sign "Experts only, steep slope, intermidiots take the other piste". Well it was like a red rag to a bull, I've never seen so many bad skiers on a single slope - moms and dads dragging their petrified youngsters down in tears, snowboarders sitting on the bums blocking the whole piste, people doing one long traverse side to side, ski school mega structures, the lot. We also saw far more blood wagons hauling people off the mountains than we did even in the xmas icicle fest.

Skiers do have a responsibility to ski on slopes they are capable of skiing / boarding and to not stop in dangerous places but at the end of the day, weighing up the pros and cons, it is for the uphill skier to take idiocy into account.

On a similar note this ski instructor has been getting a lot of criticism


http://youtube.com/v/9Ls-MYo3vGQ

I haven't had time to read all comments, this guy looked like he had fallen & lost control before he gently slid into the instructor.
Whilst yes, you should ski in control at all times, does this mean falling is forbidden? ie the rules say ski in control, therefore losing control after falling over is not allowed therefore falling over is not allowed and you should be barred from the mountain if you do fall over? Only people that NEVER fall over should be allowed to ski?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Any stats for the ski areas on casualties, eg, numbers carted off the slopes via skidoo, helicopter per 1000 visitors?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
slopestyless wrote:
I think the standard of behaviour has deteriorated a lot in the last few years with cyclists and skiers/boarders.
I can't help wondering if a percentage (not all) of it is due to the increase in helmet wear and the false sense of security this can give both disciplines and the negative effect it has on the speeds people travel at as a consequence.
Riding a bike and winter sports are a skill after all.

#justanopinion



Oh God no.
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@thecramps, indeed...slopestyless not really up to date with research.

Bailly research - very well-designed - suggests no risk compensation effect in helmet users

Nice article on the issues:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/news/research-shows-ski-helmets-do-not-prevent-concussion/
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
tangowaggon wrote:



http://youtube.com/v/9Ls-MYo3vGQ

I haven't had time to read all comments, this guy looked like he had fallen & lost control before he gently slid into the instructor.
Whilst yes, you should ski in control at all times, does this mean falling is forbidden? ie the rules say ski in control, therefore losing control after falling over is not allowed therefore falling over is not allowed and you should be barred from the mountain if you do fall over? Only people that NEVER fall over should be allowed to ski?[/quote]

Yep and applying mad instuctor woman logic - if you can't ski on a black slope you should be on a green slope presumably you are declaring you can't ski on a black slope if you need a lesson to be there. hence she and her group disappear in a puff of logic and the guy slides into no one wink
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I think what we have established is that people are f***** stupid.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
valais2 wrote:
@thecramps, indeed...slopestyless not really up to date with research.

Bailly research - very well-designed - suggests no risk compensation effect in helmet users

Nice article on the issues:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/news/research-shows-ski-helmets-do-not-prevent-concussion/


No, I meant "Oh God no, not a helmet thread" Madeye-Smiley Madeye-Smiley
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I haven't read all 5 pages of this thread but going back to the OP's original 4 second "d**khead" video, here is his full video of that run leading up to the said "d**khead".
https://vimeo.com/312778179


It's 5 minutes of your life you won't get back, but one can see the apparently "offending" snowboarder first comes into shot at 4m13 seconds and is followed by the OP, remaining in space and clear view for a good 20 seconds before the (non) "incident" at 4m 34.

The OP's commentary on his original video:
https://vimeo.com/312773796


Quote:
"D**khead snowboarder not looking where he is going.
Sadly this is really typical of the snowboarding community."


Seems to me the OP thinks he has some sort of divine right of way on the piste and all other users should move out of his way in advance of his arrival, and/or just has something against snowboarders generally. The skiers criss-crossing each other without giving reasonable space at the junction at 2m40 - 2m50 seemed worse to me, or the skiers stopping in the middle of the piste at the end of that junction, but he didn't call them out.

I put it that the OP, in describing the snowboarder, has merely described himself.

The OP also states :

Quote:
This is why skiers (and particularly snowboarders who are by far the worst problem - partly because they tend to be young and care-free and partly because with two legs strapped together you can do much more sudden directional changes) need to look upslope before.


This is utter rubbish. You cannot possibly look uphill before every turn/maneouvuer. Skiers face downhill they'd be craning their neck every two seconds. Also note this snowboard was on a heel edge turn, left foot forward and could not physically have turned his head all the way round left to see the OP coming in behind him uphill from the left. (the snowboard is already looking 90 degrees in the direction of the board, the neck won't turn much more !) rolling eyes This is exactly why the downhill skier/boarder has right of way.
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Another angle on it - why are we so attached to rules of the road as an analogue?

Because driving is the primary experience we have of "rules" and discipline for the coordination of complex numbers of objects moving at speed. And we get culture shock all the time e.g. come from the Uk where the most you'll have had is a 4 lane motorway which generally good lane discipline and experience the free for all that is a US urban 8 lane freeway with over/undertaking, vehicles doing 8 lane switches, off and on ramps every mile. Now take that culture shock between national driving norms and imagine it exists between every single skier and that's what you're really dealing with. Everyone has a different perception of what is too close, everyone a different reaction to a different risk, and many confounding factors from groups all trying to ski within inches of each other to parents deliberately obstructing traffic to try to protect offspring, nervous ninnies to blue run heroes, jumping juveniles to septugenerian skidders.



Help us be not a prick and forgive those who are bellendish towards us
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Didn't mean to turn it into a helmet thread - I just think some people use a helmet as a solution to their lack of skill and slope awareness.
Doesn't excuse the person above for going so close and causing a collision or a person entering a slope taking a cautionary look above them.
Enough piste maps carry basic slope etiquette still
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VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
@dsoutar, I’ve been skiing around today with this thread in mind and I think you’re right about cycling and instinctively checking it’s safe to proceed. I think I do it without thinking too, I don’t have a bicycle but I have had motorbikes and when you ride a motorbike or a bicycle regularly I think it makes you more aware generally of what’s around you compared to driving a car. I feel that doing my motorbike test definitely made me a better car driver in terms of awareness.


This is what I preach to my kids. Skiing is like cycling, you have to be aware of your surroundings and the people using the road(piste) around you.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
gorilla wrote:
Key point: the FIS code is mainly intended as a guide to not hitting other people while skiing. It is not drafted as legislation and, as such, it is impossible to use it to litigate who is in the right and who is in the wrong based on crappy go pro footage. That won't stop people trying.

The FIS code also does not include Gorilla's two master rules:

1. Don't be a dick and

2. People will make mistakes.

Rage mode instructor lady contravenes both of these. I can appreciate that being knocked over is upsetting but there is a difference between the an accident and negligence. Former rather than the latter applies here.

As others have pointed out, the only way to be safer is to ski defensively and with a large margin both for one's own error and the errors of others. There really isn't that much more to be said other than that the OP's video in the first post is very, very silly.



Great post. Says it all really.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Gazzza, Very enlightening. Thanks for going to the trouble of watching it on other people's behalf. Very Happy
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Gazzza, I did actually take the trouble to view the longer version.

What the shadows show is the OP holding the camera in his right hand and his ski poles in the left. He overtakes far more people than overtake him so he is going quite quickly and at one point there is a fairly busy piste joining from the right. He is hardly in a position to lecture others about safety or etiquette.

I suspect that the real reason he is upset, although he may not rceognise it himself, is that the boarder spoilt his camera shot as he approached the restaurant at the end.

It had nothing to do with safety.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@richjp, Also the point half way down where he skis quite close to someone and turns the camera on them briefly, was he miffed with him? He cut his partner up after overtaking her, watch the shadows.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So who has right of way in the following scenario:

Two slopes join in a ‘Y’ and a fifteen year old girl on snow blades barges into the back of you at a eleventy million miles per hour as you both carve the same bit snow, ricocheting both participants and equipment down the mountain?

Answer? It happens. Behave properly British, say “sorry” (even though it’s not your fault), help said reckless fifteen year old girl back onto her feet, fetch her snow blade and reset her binding for her in order to help her back onto her flipping blade thingy and wish her a jolly good day. Follow with retrieval of own now wrecked equipment and find a bar.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@dredgey, Better man than me - my answer would be ski off with one or more blades to give her the gift of some "mindfulness training" as she walks her way down.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If a snowboarders turns their head to look behind him, that means the shoulders will turn, the hips will turn & the snowboard will turn.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
@dredgey, Better man than me - my answer would be ski off with one or more blades to give her the gift of some "mindfulness training" as she walks her way down.


Haha! Tempting!

She looked genuinely shocked and it must have taught her a lesson. All her mates had naffed out without her so moral responsibility made me feel like making sure everyone was ok first and getting her on her way back to her group. Cost me a repair to my boot and a wonky ski pole though!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I never film any person intentionally; just the scenery around, which was quite nice.

Sorry to spoil the party. BTW, the slopes are nowadays full of "teletubbies" with helmet cams.

Remember also that the eye angle of view is a lot wider than the camera's in this case. The DJI Osmo is narrow angle; much narrower than the go-pro types. So much more is visible to the sides than you see in the video.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 28-01-19 21:52; edited 1 time in total
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peter_h wrote:
Remember also that the eye angle of view is a lot wider than the camera's in this case. The DJI Osmo is narrow angle; much narrower than the go-pro types.
Trying to understand the significance if that comment, but not quite able to understand the relevance. Curious.
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So enlighten us - what exactly was going on off camera that justifies your original post?

Or are you now saying your vision is superior to the view of the camera so you'd comfortably identified the risk of mild speed perfectly well behaved slope users and had a bombproof plan to avoid them?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
FWIW I don't think peter does anything really wrong in the original video (other than the - completely undeserved - "dickhead" comment). He probably passes a bit closer to the boarder than I would have done, given width and crowdedness (is that a word?) of the piste, but there's no real risk of collision, so...

However, in the full-length video there are moments where he passes a downhill skier too close for comfort IMO, where had the other skier done something unexpected I'm not sure he'd have been able to avoid a collision (particularly around the 2:07 mark where he's far too close for comfort for me). He also goes over a roller a bit too fast for my liking at one point. And I'm not sure about the whole skiing with poles in one hand and camera in the other thing. I did once ski for a couple of hours with only one pole after one of our group (then at early intermediate level) had one of his nicked at our lunch break (seriously, who in their right mind would steal a single ski pole??). I only skied red and blues that afternoon, but didn't feel particularly comfortable doing so.
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mad for chelsea wrote:
....seriously, who in their right mind would steal a single ski pole??

Some toe-rag breaks a pole and steels one, to get him down the hill.....this could even start a chain reaction of "One Pole" thefts. You were too honest and broke the chain. Madeye-Smiley
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This is a wind up I think...I mean Peter is skiing with two poles in one hand and camera in the other in perfect conditions on a slope wider and flatter than the M25 at Heathrow.. and he's having a go at the snowboarder in front who's been in his field of vision for about half a minute and is just messing around having a bit of fun in the sun. This is a total non-event as someone else pointed out.
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