2nd home in the French Alps - where would you chose?

A snowHead

Agree with most of whats's said here about the Morzine area, but would add a couple of things...

We moved here 14 years ago, and I have been commuting on the Yvoire - Nyon ferry for over 6 years now ( From Oct - April ) in the summer I ride my motorbike round every day, GVA is not too bad on 2 wheels, and it means every days commute starts and end with a fantastic ride in the mountains Smile

I have found the ferry is pretty reliable, and on days it does not run, we have 50Mbps internet in the Col Du Corbier, so I just work from home.
Being "away from the action" is actually very nice, as we can dip in and out of the scene when we like, and the tranquility is lovely, especially for walking the dog.

As for the canton Vaud tax thing vs GVA:
The tax rate in Vaud is a bit of a red herring, as if you are a frontalier working in canton VD you are taxed where you live (France) and not in VD.
It depends upon your family circumstances, but for us I think VD is better than GVA until our kids finish Uni, after which GVA would be better.

If you are married with dependents, I believe the GVA tax is around 11% ( based on 75.000-100.000 CHF), https://www.eycom.ch/en/Publications/20170426-Tax-2017-Geneva/download

In France if you have a partner + 3 dependents, then you pay 1/4 of the basic rate which is 22%, so you pay 5.5%.
In either case you need to pay an additional 10% for healthcare in France to URSSAF via CNTFS, but this is deductible from your tax liability in France, so the actual rate, with other amortisations is around 3%. ( Plus the 10% URSSAF, Taxe de Sejour and Taxe de Habitation, but you would pay these in both cases)

Thonon has some really good schools.
St Joseph was the top rated school in the department, and in the top 10% nationally : https://www.lexpress.fr/palmares/lycees/0/lycee-saint-joseph-thonon-les-bains_0740100G.html

While many children from the valley do board Mon-Fri, our boys have just take the bus every day.

A snowHead

Taninges or verchaix in the giffre Valley would be my no. 1 choice. don't underestimate being close to gva. Samoens is pricy.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Yes, there was a little house that needed some work in Taninges that we were interested in. Looked ideally placed for Les Gets and further on, the Grand Massif. I never even got a reply from the Estate Agents, though!

Will try Verchaix.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@TheJackal,

No doubt there are some nice properties at sensible prices around Sallanches and I quite like the place.
That said we were up in Les Contamines for a week at NY and it was cold and sunny most of the time. Every time we got a view down to the Arve valley it was full of cloud and I did shiver slightly at the thought of how cold, grey and dirty it would be. They cut the speed on the autoroute to 110 in the winter to reduce particulates - there is a reason for it.

You'll need to Register first of course.

@jedster, The same is often true of the Leman basin : Geneva, Thonon, Evian, Lausanne, Montreux etc..
Above 1100m you are in bright sunshine, while below is a sea of grey murk.
This is one of the most depressing things about going down to work ( other than missing bluebird / Pow days like today) is that you leave bright sunny clean air to spend most of the day down in the gloom before returning above the cloud for the last knockings of the day.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

I prefer Sallanches to Cluses. But the villages out the back of Cluses towards Taninges are a good option and slightly higher do you get out of the inversion. Also, you can sneak in the back way in Geneva. Having sat in the traffic this morning, i can see avoiding it would be a good idea.

I prefer Sallanches to Cluses. But the villages out the back of Cluses towards Taninges are a good option and slightly higher do you get out of the inversion. Also, you can sneak in the back way in Geneva. Having sat in the traffic this morning, I can see avoiding it would be a good idea.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Just had another look at Taninges... always liked the look of it and Samoëns but it does seem a bit out of our price range.

Found somewhere in Magland, a bit on from Sallanches near to the future Funiflaine but I suppose that's going to suffer from the same inversion problem.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

I too was amazed at the pollution/temperature inversions in the Arve valley. And the area around Bonneville is getting more and more built up. To me, if I'm going to have a second home in the Alps, it's not going to be in an industrial zone.

If money were no object I would do either the Giffre Valley, as I mentioned, or Annecy. Though anything remotely interesting in Annecy is very expensive, too.

Speaking of the Geneva area, we have friends who just moved to Gex and love it. They are a couple of minutes away from some of the small Jura ski stations, can't recall the name.

snow reports

Annecy suffers from the same issue of pollution, in fact it could be worse.
https://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2014/05/14/annecy-son-lac-pur-et-son-air-pollue
One of our sons is at uni in Annecy, and he comments on how the air "tastes a bit funky" in Annecy.

Seriously guys and gals, all this talk of pollution makes me think of Hong Kong... the pollution just cannot be as bad as HK, in the run up to Chinese New Year... with every factory within 200 miles working through the clock to make up for the week that they'll be shut!

By the way, thanks for all your advice. We're still nowhere nearer buying a property despite flying back for a couple of days, next week! French Estate Agents could really do, with checking their emails...

If any of you need some advice about skiing in Japan or South Korea or even New Zealand for that matter, you know who to PM.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

We are going back to the maurienne valley for the third year this year for our skiing holiday. All the resorts seem to have great skiing - the eskimo liftpass covers you for several resorts which is great i think as it allows you to do lots of different runs (and at different times of the year you need different snow conditions). we met teachers who buy an annual pass and go out to different bases at christmas easter and half term. (very jealous)
Not many english come, which is a surprise because driving there is very easy - the autoroute goes right to the bottom of the valley and you can get the train there. And it is very cheap in comparison to the big name resorts.
I would love to buy a property there but we can't really justify it.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Graham Bell came to Aussois last year if you want ot see the review of it.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@davidof, Private and Catholic schools in France are not the same as in the UK.
Our lads are neither catholic or private, the school accepts anybody of any religious belief or non-belief.
Religion is not permitted in the school as France is a secular country, so no assembly, no RS / RE / Scripture etc..
Latin is available as an option, but thats about as Catholic as it gets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_conspicuous_religious_symbols_in_schools

"The French government highly subsidises private elementary and secondary schools, even those affiliated with religious organizations, as long as they apply the same curriculum as the public schools, with the same academic standards, and that they do not discriminate on grounds of religious affiliation nor make religious education compulsory. It is for instance common that children of agnostic or otherwise non-religious families, or children of families from other religions, are put in Catholic schools, if their parents judge these schools to offer better conditions of education or to be more convenient. Consequently, families can use private schools at moderate costs. While there are no accessible official national statistics on the costs of private schools, typical prices per year for low-income families are in the range of a few hundred euros. The average costs are €500 a year per student;[5] however, this statistic includes very expensive, exclusive schools. In addition, according to the figures from the secretariat, more than half of schools have established a price schedule taking into account a family's income; as a result, costs to parents can be as little as €20 to €30 per school month per student."

St Joseph fees are of this nature.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Yes, thanks. I couldn't work out the altitude. Looks about 1050m. Maybe just less. The ski nordique area looks interesting. Always fancied a go.

Just had a surfeit of replies from Estate Agents.

Interested in a chalet in the Montricher part of Montricher-Albanne by the Karellis. Looks idyllic but I'm not sure whether they keep the road up there clear in the winter. Looks a sizeable "bled" but who knows?

Got another reply about a place in Vulmix above Bourg Saint Maurice, as well.

After all it is free

@TheJackal, the pollution is for different reasons though. Having lived in HK myself as well, I can say that the inversions around Cluses etc are equally bad for health. The cold air sinks into a very narrow valley and traps the particulates - caused by industry, diesel lorries struggling to the Mt Blanc tunnel and log burners etc. If a high pressure sets in and there is no wind it just hangs about. By moving up the valley you avoid it but still it is worth considering. @WindOfChange, never thought of it being an issue in Annecy as well. Interesting that one of yours is at Uni there, one of mine likes the idea of it. Thinks we can live in our place and she can come and see us every weekend!

Montricher is certainly a pretty little place. I've never had any problems getting up the hill that far but, on occasion, have been cautious on the last bit up to Karellis. I'm sure the road will get closed occasionally but, I imagine they're pretty quick at opening it as so much business relies on it.

I'm never quite sure what happens in the Albanne bit. You can ski down to the village (very pretty) and see tarmac and, occasionally, cars moving about. However, as you drive up the main hill, the little road to it always seems to be blocked.

Albanne:

PS. If you have a high vehicle, check the height of the squeeze under the railway at the foot of the road. There is an alternative route to St Jean but that'll be a pain if you want to get directly to the Autoroute.

PPS. Scrub that. The bridge I'm thinking of, that's only 1.7m, is part way back to St Jean. The bridge at the foot of Montricher is a full sized thing.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Saint Sigismond looks like a good spot. One cheaper area near there may be the plateau on the south side of Cluses, around Mont Saxonnex. Haven't been but it looks like its own separate little world on googly maps.

Bourg Saint Maurice / Vulmix: pretty area but busy; endless skiing nearby; excellently Asterixish name; but a long old schlep out of the Tarantaise and on past Albertville to the world.

snow reports

@Ugo, good shout. St Sigismond is lovely. A lot of the GM workers live there, as it is cheaper than in resort. Agy is just up the road and is a Nordic area and has wonderful views. Popular with cyclists in the summer.

You know it makes sense.

Austria !!!!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

What school is your wife moving to out of curiosity? Le Rosey in Rolle (as you mentioned boarding)?

I work in Lausanne but live between there and Geneva near many of the big International schools.

A snowHead

@TheJackal, I’ve not really any idea. The direct route to St Jean is very minor and is probably more prone to ice than snow. I doubt it gets cleared often.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Good luck! Happy to give advice about the area (and also about some of the schools as I've visited a few of them for my daughter)

You need to Login to know who's really who.

A good friend (and great skier!) works at Le Rosey if you want a contact.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Bit of an ‘in’ joke, so you live in near Evian? Above or below the clouds?

You'll need to Register first of course.

Just to put forward another PoV, and forgive me if I'm parsing your various posts incorrectly: Perhaps you need to decide whether your priority is work/school at one end of the spectrum, or lifestyle aspiration/mountain retreat at the other end. Or some compromise in between. If you and your wife are working in Lausanne then why not live there with your children going to school a walk away? It's a fantastic city and within 60-90 minutes or a train ride of great mountain leisure areas. It's natural to fix on the mountain lifestyle but being realistic, wouldn't a smaller apartment near to work/schools with short commute and local amenities be better than a larger m² mountain retreat with a massive commute? In the former, you'd still be able to take advantage of VTT and skiing. And if you have family back in the UK, then the latter is nearer to GVA for short trips back. And mountain locations can be pretty dead in the spring/autumn low seasons. I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer, and it's hard to generalise without knowing much more about your circumstances, but if your wife is 'locked' into an urban lakeside job, then how about making that the baseline location for the family, against which you compare mountain alternatives, rather than the other way 'round?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

For kids, I'd think that living in the vicinity of their school would be a huge boost to their social life.

After all it is free

Thank you for your thoughts.

The reality is that if my wife ends up working near to or in Lausanne or Geneva, we will simply swap an apartment in HK for one near to or in Lausanne or Geneva.

As @pam w quite rightly states, my kid's peers will be there which is the most important thing and as @LaForet says, it's hardly the worst place we could be stuck!

All we have to do now, is sort out where this old knacker would like to retire and what would make the best sense financially and logistically, for him to get to and from Switzerland and a base for skiing/cycling/walking in France!

Got 3 properties to view in the Maurienne, 1 at the head of the Tarentaise, 1 in Sallanches, 1 in Seytroux near St Jean d'Aulps, 1 in BdO and finally one in La Vachette in between Briançon and Montgenèvre.

Wish us luck!

Oh well, that was interesting!

We saw most of the houses that we planned to see but are still no further down the road to purchasing.

Just a few notes to help others who may welcome our observations;

BdO was definitely dark and brooding at this time of year. The sun shines on the ADZ side of the valley as it does above the inversions in the Vallée d'Arve.

Above the valley floor Combloux and Les Gets were resplendent in sunshine but way down below, Sallanches and Cluses were kind of chilly and grey.

In terms of industry and traffic both the Maurienne and Tarentaise were very similar and we couldn't choose between the two. The upper part of the Maurienne seemed to be steep sided and as such, the sunlight there was less apparent, whereas further down near La Chambre, the wide open spaces above La Chambre and opposite it, going up to Les Villards were very appealing. The one blot on the landscape however, was the Arkema factory situated in La Chambre. As was the FerroPem factory churning out God-Knows-what opposite Saint Martin de la Porte and below Montricher and the ascent to Les Karellis.

The Dranse de Morzine valley was a lot more pleasant than we anticipated and the house we saw at Seytroux very appealing. Our one reservation was that we like to vary where we ski a lot and one sensed that the PdS was the only game in town, without driving over Les Gets to get to the GM.

True to the advice given, once we descended below the clouds, Lac Léman was practically non-existent and the whole area was as grey as a wet Wednesday in Wednesbury! Now, whether there was an unhealthy mix of pollution in there, we couldn't tell but suffice it to say that we now get why people say to live above the cloudline!

Compliments to those who suggested the Giffre Valley and who live near Flumet and Les Saisies. Along with Les Gets and Saint Gervais les Bains, these areas all received a big "If only" from us, on our way through.

In terms of the prices of dwellings and the attitudes of Estate Agents, we found there to be a marked difference in attitude between Haute-Savoie, La Tarentaise, La Maurienne and BdO. The further South one travelled, the more open to negociation and the general courtesy (desperation?) of Agents was remarked upon, with many Estate Agents in the North simply not giving a flying fig, knowing that what they had on offer would be snapped up within days, not months or years, as seems to be the case futher South.

We are now left wondering what alternatives there are, to be honest. We'd like to raise a mortgage if we could and so France seemed the ideal location but I'm wondering whether there is anywhere else that may be a little more accessible? Either that or we'll just have to stump up the cash and be done with it!

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

self build?

Help!!

2nd home in the French Alps - where would you chose?

snowHeads Forum Index >>> The Piste