 Poster: A snowHead
|
a friend of mine is in the process of buying her first board and bindings. she got the board on a cheap deal from the USA and is debating about the bindings.
ive heard mixed reports about flows. on the one hand theyre a doddle to get in and out of, on the other theyre not that responsive and theyre a bit on the heavy side.
does anybody out there have any first hand experience of them, good or bad?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I ummed and ahhed about this not so long ago when I bought my board...
ended up choosing some regular bindings (albeit burton ones that clip around the toes rather than over top of foot)
the clincher for me was weight - go in a shop and pick up a flow vs regular...
although there's a personal preference thing - i felt that for a once or twice a year skier they aren't so different performance wise
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
frostie1861, New ones are not 'as' heavy as the old and they're only a "doddle" if you set them slightly loose and that makes them a bit unresponsive. For a first timer I'd go the 'cap and strap' route, it's much easier to make adjustments, keep your feet comfortable and identify if your boots are well fitting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Bought Pro F11's.....gonna try them in 7 days....can't wait!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, the weight issue is a bit down to personal preference rather than performance as the only difference is you feel it more when you carry the board. On slope I cannot see how the weight affects you at all, If anything it should improve power transfer to the board, especially a stiffer one.
Masque, does have a bit of a point as if you do tighten the pads up then the entry system becomes more difficult. Loose pads can reduce sensitivity but a bit, not much.
Straps v Flows really is just what u fancy.
Comfort and quick release/entry don't mind a heavy board - Flows.
Tighter bindings/more response (toe edge) and fiddlin at the top of every run - straps.
In terms of riding performance I do think only pro riders would really notice the difference.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I am a big fan of Flows. Weight? - as Philip says this isn't really an issue in my book. Ease of in and out? - this is true and can mean that you are away from the lifts as quick as any skier, but that's not the real reason I like them. Comfort - this IS the reason why they are so good. If you have any problem with cramp in the feet or cutting off the circulation, then Flows will probably cure that. With my old strap bindings I used to be in agony at times. With Flows I can ride all day, all week and pretty much have pain free feet at all times - which allows you to concentrate on and enjoy the riding.
However, I have just got some cap strap bindings to replace my Flows. The reason? I took a freestyle lesson and was convinced by the instructor that the increased responsiveness would improve the ability to do the tricks that he was teaching me. Was he right? Yes. On my last trip I noticed that I could set the straps up so that they are more responsive than the Flows, when doing these tricks and in hard riding. The downside? The cramping problem reappeared on day 4, possibly because my boots had softened up after successive days of riding and I was now overtightening the straps to compensate. Note to self not to be tempted to overtighten the straps next time.
After analysing this cramping problem and thinking back to previous trips, I am convinced that boots do temporarily soften up during the week due to the constant use. I used to get a similar feeling with Flows but to a much lesser extent - and the symptom then was a reduction in power transfer because you are less likely to change the setting of the straps. With strap bindings it is difficult to remember to not crank them too tight in the end of the week, when it was perfectly possible to crank them tight at the start of the week and remain comfortable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
cheers guys, defintely some food for thought there!
personally i think i'll be upgrading my ride SPi's and buying some toe straps as soon as i can get hold of them
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Has anyone considered K2 Cinch bindings ?
I used straps for two years, then Flows for 5 and have now moved on to the K2 Cinch. For those of you not aware, the Cinch is the middle ground between the Flow concept and strap bindings. You still have adjustable straps the same as strap bindings, but the Heel plate works in the same way as the Flow, allowing rear entry.
I used them last season, and found them to be great ! - The ease of Flows, but with the extra 'on the fly' adjustment of straps. Plus, for those that think that Flows look like 'old man carpet slippers', the Cinch look like a regular pair of strap bindings...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
ive got to say first impressions are pretty good. of course thats only form looking at the pictures and reading the blurb, and if that doesnt make them sound good then some marketing exec some where is not doing their job properly! 
from what you say richie S it looks like they combine the best of both worlds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
frostie1861, I got last years K2 Cinch as well.. in response to an earlier question on the forum I wrote the following...
Have to say that since I wrote this I have been away this year.. and got on much better with the bindings this time.. e.g. geting them on and off.. and this years models are supposed to be improved:
| Quote: |
I only had a couple of issues with them really. Once the metal wire which is used as part of the locking mechanism on the highback after you push your boot in popped out of the piece that holds it in place.. but that was more to do with not setting it correctly.
They're not as easy to get on as flows (or I guess so as never used flows). when you undo the highback to put your foot in the upper section i.e. the part holding the straps moves up to allow your foot to move in, but the toe strap doesn't go high enough. Basically when your taking your foot out it's best to undo the toe strap a couple of notches so when your putting your foot back in you’ve got a bit more clearance.. then once you lock the high back, you need to crank your toe strap a couple of times to get it snug.
I guess they are a bit more fiddly than flows, but are quicker once you get used to them than straps. If your a strap man then they are cool, quicker than doing up your one binding when you get off the lift.
I guess one other thing I found was that my old Salomon dialogue boots (02/03) are pretty chunky volume wise, and this kind made sliding my foot in/out a bit difficult. I'm buying new boots next week, hopefully some that have a smaller profile.. and this may improve the situation. i did try the bindings with my boot last year, but it's a whole different story when kicking in and out of the binding when on snow than on a shop floor 
This said, this seasons are supposed to be improved and lighter, but don't know exactly what they have done mechanism wise.
Over all they didn't wow me, but I am not hugely disappointed either... and I really need new bindings last year anyway
EDIT: oops should mention that performance wise.. I found them pretty tight.. i.e. they're fairly stiff, or stiffer than my old liquid bindings. they are pretty big n chunky but found then responsive.. guess it's fairly hard to notice a huge difference in binding performance... but I felt that board control was that little bit sharper as well |
I like them more now since this years trip.. so I would recommend 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I almost bought a pair of k2 cinch last week to replace my flows but found them too heavy and felt "clunky".
I've gone back to straps, Ride SPi to be precise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
prog99, are they the new version with the toe strap?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
prog99, I'm surprised you found them more heavy and chunky than Flows... the flows I had were definately chunky ! - Before I bought, I held a Cinch and a regular K2 strap binding in my hands and couldn't really notice a different weight wise - and anyway, I've never felt that binding weight was an issue when riding...
Oisin Osh Kelly, I wouldn't say they are harder to get into than flows... I also didn't have particular issues with the toe straps - but then having ridden flows I don't tend to overtighten the straps. I bought new boughts with the bindings - Salamon Synapse I think ( or summink ) size 11's in a Large Cinch ( or was it XL, can't remember now ) and I'd say these are pretty chunky boots - no problem getting them in and out...
Overall, i think the bindings are a great middle ground between Flow and Straps... but then I was a Flow convert anyway - if you're a straps man ( or woman ! ) then you might take more convincing !
One thing thou, I'd probably think long and hard before buying these if you were already a Flow rider - the main benefits to the Cinch are the immediacy of adjustment ( like straps ) and that they 'look' like straps. If you are a commited flow rider, the benefits of Cinch might not go far enough to warrant the £200 price tag ( I bought mine last year when they were £150 ). If you are Strap rider, and can't face moving to Flows, then the Cinch might just be what you are looking for !
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I also have Flow MK4 bindings. I am a beginner and found them really nice. You have to get used to the way you step in, but I found them very useful in the snowboard school. You can get in and out pretty quick, which is very useful when you learn.
I didn't find them chunky compared to the other bindings, but it was difficult to make them really tight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Just got my F11's upgraded to this year as they were faulty....thank you Two seasons in cambridge......I now have an even newer set, still to see snow...3 more days
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Richie_S, Wouldn't know abot flows as have never tried em... as for the K" getting in and out.. I have a tendancy to max both toe and and ankle strap as tight as I can.. but as I say ... now I'm happier with them...
I got mine for £150 as well.... wow hadn't realised that they had gone up £50 this year... I know they are supposed to be improved.. but £50???
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
When I bought mine in Jan 05, the retailer said they were at a low price to encourage take up, and that they would be increased to £200 next ( this ) season...
It certainly worked on me... £150 was 'low' enough price to make me consider buying them, but I doubt I would have been enticed with a £200 price tag - I would have made my Flows last a few more years !
On the your strap tightness point, with Flows there isn't the same 'need' to crank down the binding and indeed its difficult ( and I guess not the intention ) to do so. Hence, you tend to get use to looser bindings, which is probably where the 'lack of responsiveness' criticism comes in. Using the Cinch, I feel comfortable with a 'looser' fit because of the experience of Flows. However, the benefit with the Cinch is that i can do as you do and crank the bindings real tight for those full on tanking down the hill runs when being tightly bound helps ! Still, don't you suffer from feet ache with tight bindings ? - I always do, which is why the Flows have always suited me - far more comfortable....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Richie_S, some days I get an ache up along the shin on my front foot .. but I think it may have more to do with the bio-mechanics thingy that people have spoken about before... last year I was crippled by end of the day.. but that was more to do with heal lift. I have new boots this year soooo not so much of a problem. I've never suffered with cramp or pain around my feet where the bindings are done up.. maybe I'm lucky.. but the last 2 pairs of boots I've had always have plenty of space around the toes and bridge of the foot.. i.e. a wide boot.... the boot seems to take up most of the pressure. maybe I'm lucky ?
I've always cranked as far as I can go .. i.e. the ratchet mechanism slips on the last crank.. it's never really been a big problem for me.... I think as your fitness improves over the holiday it becomes more of a problem.. that meaning your legs/feet get used to being in an unnatural position... not natural.. but putting more stress on certain parts that through the rest of the year you don’t.
BTW for those of you with wide feet and looking at buying new boots.. I can recommend the Celsius climate... really nice boot and fairly stiff as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
i was reading another thread on here about shin splints being related to your high backs not beeing set properly. its something ive always suffeed from so ive adjusted my highbacks -i'll let you knwo how i get on next week!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
frostie1861, it's more about you relaxing into your boots and letting your body mass pass into the board. If you're constantly trying to press down or pull up with your toes (try it) you're putting stress into your shins. Just relax and sink down and your board will edge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Masque, i think that the two might be tied in together. i definitely need to relax more on the board and also if the high backs arent adjusted properly then im having to make that much more movement to get the heal edge. i guess i'll find out soon enough 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I find that any pains in the feet are much worse after 3-4 days of riding. On most trips I ride like a god on the first day (or at least I think so) and then gradually get worse. I suspect that this is due to the fact that the muscles are fresh on the first day and so it is easy to relax and "flow" (pun intended) on the board. After a few days, the muscles are more tired and you find yourself forcing things and letting bad habits creep in - which becomes a vicious circle of deterioration.
Working on specific fitness probably helps but in recent years I have not done so - and I have probably suffered more than I used to. As I pass through my mid 30s it is no longer enough to just turn up and say that I'm generally fit due to regular running and cycling - I need to train the specific muscles that will be used when riding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tony Lane, take a day off on the second or third day or do something completely different (snowshoes and a camera?), get a decent massage and an early night. Or just don't stay out as long on the first two days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
As far as I can tell, flows vs. straps:
- Flows are easier/faster to strap in when on flat ground (at the start of a run)
- Straps are easier/faster to strap in when in deep pow, or even on non-flat ground
- Flows more comfortable
- Straps are more resposive/less sloppy
- Straps are lighter
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I would disagree with the second point and as for the fourth point, I would not call Flows "sloppy" - the extra degree of responsiveness is slight in my view, but will occasionally make the difference. Other than that, I agree!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've been using Flows for 8 years now.
The original aluminium ones were the lightest bindings I've ever come across.
Last week I didn't take my own board, but hired one with straps on & whilst I agree they are slightly more responsive, it's not so much as to want me to give up the convenience of Flows.
I think a good fitting pair of boots with no heel lift are more important.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
I went back to straps there for a few weeks (Drake F60s) and it back to my flows f11 now. I noticed a marginal gain in responsiveness (on piste only) but off set by much more effort and time. I will not dabble in straps again !!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
i wil always use straps.. im not bothered about taking a minute to strap up at the start of a run.. lets face most people are still faffing around the piste map by then.. plus all your great plans you made on the chair lift up about off piste suddenly look very different once you are up there.. an extra minute wont kill you..
to be honest i'd say the boots are more impotrant than the bindings, as long as the bindings hold your boots in the place you are fine..
if you are doing your bindings up so tight that they affect your feet through your boots then you are more likely to break your bindings than hurt your feet! .. as you get better you relax more into your gear (as already mentioned) and you can cope better with for example hire boots and a bit of foot slippage.. you use your legs/bindings more and your feet less.. if you want the perfect fit, throw money at it n get fitted..  ...
and i agree that boots loosen up after a few days.. thats why i favour the wire lace twist thingy they do now... well i did untill the twist button on mine came off/got kicked off/fell off/etc one night whilst i was pissed, and no one could fix it so i had to get hire boots!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
i purchased some flows last spring got a good price! tried them for the first time this year! just got back yesterday after 2 weeks with them! they are great! nice & easy! & pretty responsive!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Just got back from austria.....loved my flows....easy to use and responsive for me!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I just came back from a weekend in Andorra. I also really love my flows now. Before I thought there were some small problems with my gear, but I think that was just me being rubbish.
I put some pictures of my gear on the snowheads wiki: http://snowheads.com/wiki/User:Cdamian
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| cdamian wrote: |
. Before I thought there were some small problems with my gear, but I think that was just me being rubbish.
|
heheh.. now thats what i call a great quote!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
On a related note, the Finish olympic halfpipe team were all on Flow kit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Ahh, so that was the problem. Bad workmen.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
prog99, But yes, you are right, this is a good enough reason for this debate to be put to bed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Oisin Osh Kelly, No, there was def' one guy in the 2nd heat using flow bindings as well as board.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
i hear this all the time from people and it's always from people who've never tried. I find them just as responsive as my old straps (maybe they were pants though 
sorry 
