Parking outside at -10C

A snowHead

This weekend we're off to the Alps where we'll be using the car every other day or so to get to different parts of the Megeve ski area. Our parking spot is outdoors and overnight temperatures are forecast to get down to about -10C, maybe a little lower. Should we need to take any special precautions to avoid problems in the mornings? e.g. seek covered parking, fill up the tank in resort (though it'll still nearly be full at that point!)…

We're hiring from Geneva airport.

Thanks in advance. We've driven in the Alps before but not in midwinter, and in the past we've had indoor parking.

A snowHead

Not at -10. Just don't de-ice the windows with a kettle like they do in the UK rolling eyes

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

no special precautions need

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When I lived in Sweden I found that when it was cold the windscreen did not frost up over night. It only did so when the temperature was closer to zero. Of course it would depend on how damp the conditions are

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@denfinella, if there is snow forecast, lift the wiper blade(s) off the screen and if you can, don't park where you have an uphill start to your first move. Oh and don't leave it to the last minute to get the car moving on departure day. Check it starts and can get out of its parking spot the night before you leave and again check the forecast for the night before your departure, digging out can take more time than you think wink

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@Rabbie, I have found this in the Alps as well. It can be a bitter but dry night, so no ice on the windscreen, but plenty under tyre. @Masque, give a good top to lift of the windscreen wipers. I do this even if no snow is forecast just in case.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

If its a Diesel, then make sure you fill up & have winter diesel fuel.
None of that chip fat or bio diesel.

After all it is free

Diesel should be good down to around -15C, but much lower and you could have problems. Make sure they give you a windscreen scraper in GVA.
Oh, and don't leave fizzy drink cans in the car - at really low temperatures they can blow the top off and spray sticky snow flakes all over your car rolling eyes

@Chamcham,

ahh, thought he was driving from UK - then should be good as regional would already have adapted fuel, etc.

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Nothing special, I live in Norway and my car stands outside everyday at work. -10 at the moment.

Couple of things that help. Cheap foil windscreen protector like this;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Windscreen-Protector-147x100cm-Aluminium-Reflective/dp/B07BBRQCZS/ref=mp_s_a_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1547723631&sr=8-21&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=windscreen+frost+protector&tag=amz07b-21

Doesn’t stop the windscreen from freezing but saves time if it snows or rains.

Cat litter in an old ski sock can reduce condensation in the car.

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Don't use the handbrake, leave it in gear as handbrake cables (well at least in the old days) can freeze, as what happened to a mate 15yrs ago here.

Oh and don't leave your boots in the car, now it's obvious but some people do and they can't get them on in the morning in the parking and same slightly true of skis as bindings can freeze, but we always leave them in the van, though tech bindings can freeze up, you'll soon find out!

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Another Norwegian posting here...diesel will NOT freeze (even down to -30). I have never even heard of "winter diesel"...

the most annoying thing when it gets around -10 is having small kids that don't kick the snow off their shoes when they get into the car...then you have to scrape both the inside AND outside of the front windscreen...

You know it makes sense.

@Lilledonmarco, It may not freeze, but it will gel if not treated with an additive, so that the engine may not run below -15 to 16 C. Maybe all Norwegian diesel has the additive, but not all French diesel will.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Layne, Interesting link

A snowHead

@Lilledonmarco, you want to be here when it goes minus 15 many a person gets caught out.

@Chamcham, is right - here even in the valley you have two types of diesel with the more expensive one containing the additive etc although maybe it's a marketing ploy there are definitely issues if you don't have the additive / right fuel.

A snowHead

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Anyone old enough to remember winter 1982 may remember seeing fires being lit underneath lorries to melt waxed up diesel. Not sure how many caught fire that year Laughing

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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I don't particularly remember the 1982 winter (though am just about old enough), but just after Christmas 1995 in Glasgow the temps got down to about -28C and all the buses were breaking down with the waxed up diesel.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Weird one for you BUT if you are transporting back and forth ski boots etc then a sock full of cat litter to wick up the moisture stops you having to de ice the inside windscreen on a cold day.

After all it is free

Thanks all, that sounds fairly reassuring (unless the forecast gets much colder). I'll check we have a scraper, or will buy one if not.

Washer fluid can definitely be a problem at -10C (ours sometimes freezes even in Scotland), but not a serious one if you have a bottle of water to hand.

@Spoon, windscreen protector looks like a good idea - not for this time, but in the future maybe!

I don't know whether our car will be diesel or not, but what are the respective fuel types called (with / without additive)?

And the other one we see a lot of after a heavy snowfall.

Especially if the snow has fallen at the beginning of their week-long holiday and they do not use the car, then they will leave the snow on the car and around the base of the car and wheel arches etc

Then with maybe fluctuations in temperature over the following days initiating a freeze/melt cycle the snow will become rock solid and difficult to shovel away, then people try and dig their cars out using plastic bum sledges as they don't have shovels etc Laughing

So take a stiff broom and shovel if you have the room, and clear the car as soon as possible after the snowfall!

Plus do not park at the edge of the road where a snow plough might shift all the snow against your car and really block you in as the snow solidifies.

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From 1 Nov to 30 April all diesel sold in France must be Class E, ie down to -15 deg. Some garages do sell Class F (but not the supermarkets in Bourg IME) so the myth that you must fill up in the mountains is often false. The UK requirement os for the mid nov-mid mar period.

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Our car has no problem with anything left outside all winter in the alps, has been below-20 no problems. Our work minibus however, we have to carry around 4 lumps of firewood as handbrake substitute, as the handbrake freezes on at the slightest excuse.

You know it makes sense.

@Lilledonmarco,
If we have winter diesel here in Finland, then I'm sure you have it in Norway too.

@johnE,
I doubted the handbrake advice too, but I googled a bit and apparently it's a real thing, mostly in older cars. NB, the wire itself doesn't freeze, so in dry conditions, I wouldn't be at all concerned. Actually, I'm never concerned about it.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Spoon & @Nadenoodlee, OK great, it sounds really obvious now you've said it but that never occurred to me as a solution for the internal ice.

My truck (and the previous one) suffer really badly and it takes ages to clear. I've been leaving all the doors open when I get out for a minute to let out all the warm (and ergo moist) air in the cab, which has helped, but only a little.

Cat litter it is, do you leave the sock on the dashboard, or just anywhere?

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@philwig, you're right in that it's the brake itself that can lock. As aready said though, cables used to get stuck as they where often open systems that would accumilate snow and slush while driven, virtually all modern vehicles have fully covered systems now so more unlikely currently.

Specifically the pads start to corrode in combination with the brake disc (if that's what is fitted to car, mostly on anything but small cars) helped along by any road salt usage. They can really get stuck and usually make a bang as you get enough torque only the wheel to free them. That may be difficult on front wheel drive cars on snow as the rears will just slide along.

Reasonably flat parking is ok with Park for auto or 1st gear for manual.

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I would assume any country that has seasonal winters, then winter diesel would be swapped out at the pumps at the norm.
Unlike the UK where its very rare - hence you can get caught out.

BioDiesel/Chip Fat vehicles have the same problem & you can use a fuel heater/heat exchanger.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Spoke to Audi about winterdiesel, and they told me that newer cars, have heating in the diesel feeder-tube, so wax won’t stop the dieselfilter from working. Can anybody confirm this? Is this normal Practice on newer cars, or just premium? Just ordered a new Volvo ( delivered in 2 months), and i suspect that Volvo, being swedish, also have this feature?!

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My handbrake froze - car made a terrible noise - everyone was turning round to look who was coming. I had to leave it at a garage - was told not to use the handbrake by a French mechanic who clearly thought everyone should know that!

The diesel should be OK at minus 10
- but if you do need to fill up during your trip the station on the roundabout near the supermarket between Megeve and Praz sur Arly has very cheap petrol prices, and the supermarket is good, too.

Usually when it's cold it's also dry and the windscreen won't ice up. If it does, don't use a bottle of water to clear it.....

The sock of cat litter sounds a good idea - never thought of that!

If you're in for a snowy week an underground parking space could be a good investment.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Keep the fuel tank as full as possible
Run some vaseline around or spray WD40 on any rubber door seals
Keep your washer bottle topped up with a winter screen wash, carry a spare 5L
Religiously check all internal lights are off

After all it is free

@pam w, I just think as old farts we were driving cars in the old days that had an external cables that were liable to freeze Toofy Grin

Maybe it's no longer an issue, but I still do not use the handbrake

@Frosty the Snowman, it's a rental car Puzzled

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I was just thinking about winter fuel today. We are hiring a car from Lyon and driving up to La Tania next week.

Is it just diesel that can have this issue or does it effect petrol cars as well? Won't know what we get until we arrive next Saturday.

Help!!

Parking outside at -10C

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