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Fat lad with burning quads

 Poster: A snowHead
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Old Fartbag wrote:
Then you need to get an apartment further away from the slopes.
No, I need to find a piste which only turns right.
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rob@rar wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
Then you need to get an apartment further away from the slopes.
No, I need to find a piste which only turns right.

What you need is a Helter Skelter, with snow on it....while making sure your Delta angles, Q angles and Forward Lean angles all add up to 42.

I should have been an Instructor!
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@Old Fartbag, Laughing
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just out of interest, how much fitness work would you normal week consist of?
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Mother hucker wrote:
just out of interest, how much fitness work would you normal week consist of?

2 Hours, every other day...made up of: 1 Hour Aerobic; Half and Hour Stretching/Mobility exercises/Triggepoint Roller;Core; Balance; Half an hour weight training (mostly body weight ie Press ups/Pull Up/Lunges etc)
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Mother hucker wrote:
just out of interest, how much fitness work would you normal week consist of?


Ummmm Embarassed I probably go up the stairs a few times each day and most days I walk the 5 minutes to Lidl and back.
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@Old Fartbag, not you. youre not the one complaining of burning thighs.
i see it if stay in a chalet or hotel, folks on holiday absolute write offs after their 1st day.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Ummmm Embarassed I probably go up the stairs a few times each day and most days I walk the 5 minutes to Lidl and back.[/quote]
do you ski much?
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Mother hucker wrote:
@Old Fartbag, not you. youre not the one complaining of burning thighs.
i see it if stay in a chalet or hotel, folks on holiday absolute write offs after their 1st day.

Sorry, not my brightest moment....haven't had my coffee yet. Neurons will be firing better, shortly.
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Mother hucker wrote:
just out of interest, how much fitness work would you normal week consist of?


I am unfit without a specific excersice routine. Especially as I am now a desk warrior rather than running around 12 hours a day which I was doing until last year. Im pretty inflexible as well which probably doesn't help.

This is something I really need to work on! When skiing though I rarely feel out of breath or tired out like I would after a run. Ive never found skiing exhausting like I do running but I don't ski to be fastest or hardest I just enjoy it.

I looked at the leg blasters so I will give that a go along with some cycling and general stretching of my legs each day before march.
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I am elderly - no athlete but normally fairly active (walking and a bit of cycling) and not overweight. I can ski for hours without the slightest problem provided I'm doing it right - after all, we use lifts for the hard bits! But the moment I am skiing badly(e.g. when visibility deteriorates) I can feel it - for most holiday skiers cruising the pistes decent technique is far more important than spending hours in the gym!

If you haven't skied much for a long time, or are inactive, I'd say that ensuring good flexibility in ankles and calf muscles (soleus and gastrocnemius) is more important than having iron-man quads!

But having said all that, some properly-focussed work in the gym can only do good.

Someone who is very overweight needs to guard against asking too much of their knees with high-impact stuff.
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pam w wrote:
I am elderly - no athlete but normally fairly active (walking and a bit of cycling) and not overweight. I can ski for hours without the slightest problem provided I'm doing it right - after all, we use lifts for the hard bits! But the moment I am skiing badly(e.g. when visibility deteriorates) I can feel it - for most holiday skiers cruising the pistes decent technique is far more important than spending hours in the gym!

If you haven't skied much for a long time, or are inactive, I'd say that ensuring good flexibility in ankles and calf muscles (soleus and gastrocnemius) is more important than having iron-man quads!

But having said all that, some properly-focussed work in the gym can only do good.

Someone who is very overweight needs to guard against asking too much of their knees with high-impact stuff.


I also get tired pretty quickly in low visibility but this year was the first time I had the option of a yellow lens and it made such a massive difference. I got 6 days of enjoyable skiing in lowish light and snow (Innsbruck area last week!) where as previously in my old goggles I wouldn't have even considered that a possibility.

I think the flexibility part may play much more of a role than first imagined and I will have to look at that more seriously than just a bit of a stretch in the hotel room before leaving to ski!!

Thanks everyone for the advice its really appreciated but does anyone have any insight as to why I would suffer so much more on the shallow runs? This was the bit that seemed to differentiate myself from the majority of cases I had read about.
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@PaddyM, at higher speeds (on gentler slopes) you might drop back and inside your turns in an effort to create bigger edge angles.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rob@rar wrote:
@PaddyM, at higher speeds (on gentler slopes) you might drop back and inside your turns in an effort to create bigger edge angles.


What do you mean by that? Allowing my inside shoulder to come back round into the turn?

I think the main thing is to work on a bit of fitness / flexibility and see an instructor (I realise this was the first suggestion in this thread...). Would you recommend MK or Hemel's own instructors or would I have to look at someone privately?

I see that MK seem to offer lessons up to "level 6" which from the descriptions they give indicates it would be when you are ready for the main slope skiing parallel. I feel I am probably beyond that level by quite a way now and the only other stuff I could see was private lesson with no indication of what level of skiing that was suitable for, or ski racing / freestyle lessons neither of which seem very appropriate.

Hemel offer 2 hour adult development lessons during the week which seems more suitable and would fit my horrendous shift pattern, would you or anyone recommend these as a good way to go?

Are dry slopes a viable option for improving real snow skiing? I get the impression dry slope skiing can be a skill on its own and may not be ideal for me trying to get a few quick fixes before I go away in March.

Again this is all really appreciated.
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Quote:

private lesson with no indication of what level of skiing that was suitable for

could be any level - that's the point of a private lessons - so you can focus on what you want. Expensive but can be very effective. The indoor snow slopes are much more pleasant than dry slopes - though there's nothing wrong with the latter.

@rob@rar might hesitate to suggest you have a look at the Inside Out website https://www.insideoutskiing.com/private.html
So I will ! If you can get along to any of their clinics, or book a private lesson, you'd find it very helpful.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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I seriously doubt that your problem is fitness related. I’m a pretty unfit person (see posts above) but rarely have a problem with thigh burn even if I’m skiing 6 hours a day.
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SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
I seriously doubt that your problem is fitness related. I’m a pretty unfit person (see posts above) but rarely have a problem with thigh burn even if I’m skiing 6 hours a day.
Ditto. Except in poor visibility, when I stiffen up and sit back, at which point I inevitably get thigh burn.
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PaddyM wrote:
...
Hemel offer 2 hour adult development lessons during the week which seems more suitable and would fit my horrendous shift pattern, would you or anyone recommend these as a good way to go?...


Either do that or do a private lesson on the first day of your next holiday.
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SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
I seriously doubt that your problem is fitness related. I’m a pretty unfit person (see posts above) but rarely have a problem with thigh burn even if I’m skiing 6 hours a day.


+1, I've skied with a HR a few times, it really isn't an aerobic sport at all. If you are near Hemel then I'd thoroughly recommend Inside Out skiing. They helped me improve massively.
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For me burning quads are a sign that I’m not skiing properly and that my weight distribution isn’t right. As soon as I start skiing the way I’ve been taught then the burning goes away.
Voltarol, Vin Chaud and beer also help.
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kitenski wrote:
... If you are near Hemel then I'd thoroughly recommend Inside Out skiing...


I know a few of the in-house instructors there and there are some very good ones.
Not wishing to do Rob and Scott out of business, but the OP could just book an hour with one of the regular Hemel instructors - it would cost much less.
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@Ray Zorro, perhaps you could recommend one? There are also some terrible ones. But I don't know any of their names, either the good or the bad.
Rob and Scott won't be at Hemel until after the end of the season in any event.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Hurtle wrote:
@Ray Zorro, perhaps you could recommend one? ...


If the OP drops me a pm I'd be pleased to give him some names.
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if you get it on flatter runs .... it could be you are just holding yourself too stiff and upright ... stand tall, deep breath and exhale, ease your shoulders and get all the tension out of your quads, let your knees flex and relax your shins into the boots and keep centred, and you will use a higher percentage of skeletal structure to muscle to carry your weight. You should ski from your core. If youre tired from skiing, on relatively easy terrain you may not engage mentally and proper form goes and you ski stiff where you cant exert any power and all you do is squeeze your quads tighter in a hold on fashion which only gives you less control , you put strain through your knees as you sit back and your thighs burn..
relax more .. if you can ski reds comfortably then you shouldnt need instruction to ski flat blues ...



......always have instruction.....


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 30-01-19 18:24; edited 1 time in total
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Hurtle wrote:
Rob and Scott won't be at Hemel until after the end of the season in any event.
We have some availability for private lessons during the winter months. The full coaching programme will resume in April.
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@rob@rar, oops, sorry, thought you were off the slope altogether. Embarassed Had I known that, I might not be going to Italy quite so badly prepared.
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Hurtle wrote:
@rob@rar, oops, sorry, thought you were off the slope altogether. Embarassed Had I known that, I might not be going to Italy quite so badly prepared.
We're available in between trips, which typically means midweek rather than weekend availability.

On price comparisons with The Snow Centre, its slightly tricky as our private lessons are structured slightly differently to the private lessons offered by Hemel. All our private sessions are two hours in duration, including about 30 minutes video analysis with the video files uploaded to our client's online video library for them to download or review at a later date. As I understand, the private lessons offered by The Snow Centre are one hour duration. Prices vary by season and by day of the week, our midweek price in the winter for that 2-hour session is £159, compared to £75 for a one hour private session booked with The Snow Centre. In the peak months of Jan-March we have to increase our price by £10 due to differential pricing for slope passes. We appreciate that ski lessons are not cheap, so for any of our clients who want to work on their ski improvement on a longer term basis we offer a £20 discount on a group clinic for anyone who books a private lesson, as well as a general 'frequent flyer' club which offers discounts if people train with us on a long term basis.
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@rob@rar, thanks, good to know. Wish I'd realised earlier, I haven't been on my skis since 25 November and I think that's going to show, particularly since I'm catastrophically unfit. (said the fat lady, probably with soon-to-be burning quads)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@PaddyM, sounds like you're a similar build to me, I'm 5'10" and 16.5 stone. I used to have exactly the same problem. I got to a plateau where I could get down pretty much anything but long days and especially long cruisey runs were exhausting and absolute agony and the prospect of doing a whole run top to bottom without a few stops was unthinkable. Good news is I ploughed on and got through this plateau in 2-3 years (2 ski trips totaling 8-10 days per year) without expensive 1-2-1 lessons but in my experience, what got me through it was, basically, more experience! If you can afford 1-2-1 tuition then go for it but I couldn't and got on OK without it.

I watched loads of youtube vids and coaching channels, researched and read a lot of tips/books/forums but basically I just ski'd and concentrated on feeling the snow, the skis, how things react and move etc and just got better through practise. After a while I got to the stage where skiing became a much more natural, relaxed and intuitive activity and my quads have barely ever burnt or hurt since then so have faith, it will get better.

One caveat though: despite being big, I've always been fairly fit and strong, sometimes very fit. You describe yourself as a fat lad, which I probably would describe myself as too as I'm certainly well covered however my chest is 8-10" bigger than my waist and that's usually a better guide of fitness for us "gentlemen of substance" so if you are feeling a bit festive, converting a bit of chub into muscle will help. So will losing weight, obviously, but tbh, if you've always carried a bit of timber your legs are well used to it and it's refining your technique through practise that'll make the biggest difference.
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@PaddyM, firstly 100kg & 5'9" is not fat... This time last year i was same height & 120kg & my skiing was suffering due to lack of fitness, I changed my diet & started running, just back from second weekend of the year at 100kg & the difference is incredible, can ski all day & the knee brace is now in the bin.
Apart from the fitness side of things, the biggest win for me was like the guys say above lean forward, use your shins & the boots to take the strain on the shallows not your thighs
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PaddyM wrote:
So my thighs / quads burn like hell when I ski. I suspect this is mainly down to technique but partially due to being around 100Kg and 5'9 with shortish legs and a longish upper body.
This odd part seems to be this issue is exaggerated hugely on shallow slopes (easy blues). I can ski a moderate red slope fine with the expected amount of unfitness showing but then the straight shallow blue run back down to the lift kills me with my thighs feeling like they are almost ready to cramp up to the point I need to stop especially towards the end of the day. It doesn't seem to matter if i try to move my weight forward or back to relieve the pain whilst skiing.

I skied once a year with 4 weeks of instructed skiing over 4 years around 15 years ago (school trips) and then the last 4 years skiing for a week each year without an instructor. I feel I am an intermediate (what ever that means) skiing fairly confidently on on most slopes just not particularly quickly on steeper reds and blacks.

I've read a bit on this topic but couldn't find much reference to people suffering specifically on shallower slopes and hoped somebody may be able to give me some advice based on that info.

If there are any more details which may be helpful please ask.

Thanks in advance and apologies if my searching skills aren't up to much and this has been covered previously!
I have this same issue, thanks for raising it (I'm 6'2" and 105kg) - skiing the steeps is great and I feel balanced and in control, skiing the long blues back to the lifts causes my legs to burn proper.

It might be because you (and I) are too relaxed / bored on the blues and are leaning back?

alternatively it may be the opposite, we are trying too hard not to catch an edge on the easier cruisey blues (been there and done it spectacularly several times) so we tense up and are not as flowing as we are on the reds / blacks?

Anyway, a friend told me to keep balanced in my boots, so not checking on if I'm leaning forward or back, just making sure I'm balanced on my feet, it seems to work for me most of the time (although I still occasionally forget and get the burn!)
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Quote:

just making sure I'm balanced on my feet

the difference between being balanced fore or aft can be almost imperceptible to an onlooker - just a few inches movements of the hips. I find that exercise where you side slip diagonally good for getting the feel of it - fore balance will push the tips down the slope and you'll go diagonally forward. Aft balance will do the opposite - backwards.
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Quote:

100kg & 5'9" is not fat...

A standard BMI calculation would suggest it is substantially overweight. I know those BMI calculations are arguable. But nearly 16 stone at 5'9" is surely somewhat above ideal weight?
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pam w wrote:
Quote:

100kg & 5'9" is not fat...

A standard BMI calculation would suggest it is substantially overweight. I know those BMI calculations are arguable. But nearly 16 stone at 5'9" is surely somewhat above ideal weight?


I suspect it throws up as obese, seeing as I'm 6ft and 105kg and am 'in the top tier'.
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Yes, actually. 32.5 BMI. I know some blokes claim it's all muscle....which, as we all know, is heavier than fat.... wink
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Hi, not sure how much use my experience is. But I had the same problems last year. I couldn't go more that a couple of hundred metres without being in absolute agony quads burning and cramping, hated the week skiing and spent most of it sat at the side of the piste. Just back from a week skiing exactly a year later and the problem has gone. I put a post up last year and lot's of people suggested big calves can push knees forward and recommended having the back of the boots blown out to help get more upright.

I didn't end up finding anyone in Scotland to blow the boots out, but I have lost a lot of weight since last January when I had all the problems (63kg lost, back rowing and cycle racing at the velodrome so at a pretty decent fitness level again after a really bad prolonged injury). The weight loss has meant my calves are a bit smaller and I can really tell the difference in stance, and lack of quad burn!

I was faffing stuffing piste maps on the insides of my boots as my boots don't have cuff alignment, when I had 4 stuffed maps down the inside of boots I noticed my knees felt quite far forward and within no time I was getting quad burn, nothing else had changed just knees further forward, despite being absolutely fine the rest of the time and clearly now not a fitness issue my knees being too far forward caused the problems almost immediately.

I'm sure technique, equipment and fitness all play a part, but unless you have experienced this, I don't think you can appreciate just how horrible it is! But for me the knee position has been what has meant I've gone from skiing 3 to 4 minutes at a time to this trip first lift to last lift just stopping for lunch.

I hope you get something sorted as it really is miserable.
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you have lost 63kg in a year??? Wowsers. That's impressive.
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endoman wrote:
you have lost 63kg in a year??? Wowsers. That's impressive.
I second that, how did you do that???
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I have exactly the same issue, been skiing for 25 years, at least 10 days a season (before marriage and kids I would spend most weekends skiing at Cairngorm). Had loads of lessons when I was younger and I'm reasonably fit (cycling, running etc). I think it's defo technique. I can ski at Cairngorm no problem as the pistes aren't too long, but get me out on top to bottom run in France and my quads are absolutely burning to the point that my technique goes out the window and I'm just turning to reduce the pain (skiing at the back of the group so no one sees me Happy ).

I can ski on any run without difficulty and in control - blacks, moguls, off-piste - so my technique is broadly okay, but something obviously isn't quite right with my technique. Tried moving around slightly, trying to lean more forward, but it doesn't fully alleviate it. I obviously need to get a one-on-one lesson to get an experts opinion.

I heard from someone to get the weight forward you really need to be pushing your shins into the front of your boot so they hurt ... I don't do this, so maybe that's it. But hearing some of the comments above it sounds like it might be a subtler issue with how the weight is over the ski ... wish I could fix it easily, it can ruin a nice long run on a red for me
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kaiserpc wrote:
you really need to be pushing your shins into the front of your boot so they hurt ...


most definitely not ! ...
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