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Insurance and piste closures

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Reading a bit in the paper this morning about winter sports cover in travel insurance (apparently only 17% of annual policies cover winter sports as standard)

It seems that the majority of policies would pay out between £10 and £25 for a day of piste closure (and that often assumes 100% closure too, so if the drag on the bunny slope is running...check your small print ).

With more heavy snow moving into the Alps, how much would you be expecting to recover from lost days?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Nothing, given the small print!
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@Richard_Sideways, I haven't heard of any policy paying out if less than 100% of the skiing on the ticket is closed. And there's almost always some lift of another that runs for that very reason.
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100% ski area piste closures must be extremely rare, I don't think any have happened in this region despite the huge snowfall and avalanche risks. But the answer is to take transport to another area which is open.
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Possibly. But travel likely to be challenging and open areas rammed. There isn't an easy answer when activities are weather dependent. I've spent a fair few days holed up on boats in bad weather. Always take a few good books on any holiday.
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@pam w, it's less of a problem here. Travel to a neighboring valley is relatively easy, most ski areas are reachable from the motorway or main access roads. But, there haven't been any 100% ski area closures either.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Richard_Sideways wrote:
With more heavy snow moving into the Alps, how much would you be expecting to recover from lost days?

Nothing. I've never been in a resort that is completely closed. I've only ever chosen not to ski myself because conditions were so horrible. And then only having gone out for at least a couple of runs to try things out. Bailed out after a couple of runs about twice I think.

If a resort was completely closed I would expect the lift pass company to refund a day. But as I say that is has never happened in the nearly 30 years I've been skiing.

I don't buy insurance to pay relatively small costs like this anyhow. And I got my moneys worth skiing full days most of the time. Sometimes I'm sharing the run home with the liftees!
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Direct Travel policy is 80% of all lifts closed for more than 12 hours.. (too much snow/not enough snow/high winds)
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I’ve had the lift company take my money, only to get up the gondola to discover they had closed all but 2 very short runs and then the fog and rain closed in so badly it was getting both dangerous and unpleasant.

Had a nice lunch and down loaded, and got free tickets for the next day after a bit of discussion at the cash desk, on the lines of they shouldn’t have been taking people’s money in the morning
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@albob, well that's very impressive, what would a UK resident need to do to make that claim?
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The only time I ever got a refund for lift closure was in St Anton in 1999. All lifts were closed for 3 days near the end of February due to exceptional snowfall (it was the same week as the Galtur avalanche). The lift company gave out printed letters at the ticket offices that confirmed that everything was closed on those days and I did get a refund. I was there for two weeks so the loss of skiing the first week was made up by the spectacular conditions the week after. It wasn't so good for the people who were there for only one week though especially those who arrived with tour operators by air and were all shipped out of the resort on Friday evening instead of Saturday.
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under a new name wrote:
@albob, well that's very impressive, what would a UK resident need to do to make that claim?


From their policy wording

https://www.direct-travel.co.uk/faq/travel-insurance-policy-wordings-new/#DirectTravelPolicy

"..Please note: This section only applies between 1 December and 15 April for travel to the Northern hemisphere or
between 1 May and 30 September for travel to the Southern hemisphere.
What you are covered for under section U
We will pay up to the amount shown in the table of benefits if, as a result of not enough snow, too much snow or high
winds in your booked holiday resort, at least 80% of all lift systems are closed for more than 12 hours. We will pay for
either:
• the cost of transport to the nearest resort; or
• a benefit for each complete 24-hour period that you are not able to ski and there is no other ski resort available.
Please note: You must get written confirmation from the management of the resort stating the reason for the
closure and how long the closure lasted.
What you are not covered for under section U
1. Anything mentioned in ‘General exclusions’ on pages 18, 19 and 20...."
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In North America they'd refund your ticket if you were reasonably not happy with the conditions. The lifts can be still open, but if it's been rained on or something then they won't take your money/ you can take your ticket back for a refund.

Has anyone ever managed to get any money back from an insurance company on this particular clause, and how much?
I'm just thinking that being at a resort each day plus the opportunity cost of not working could be a lot of money they'd need to pay out...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Layne, I think that Chamonix valley had a few down days last year due avalanche danger and or wind.
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albob wrote:
Direct Travel policy is 80% of all lifts closed for more than 12 hours.. (too much snow/not enough snow/high winds)

how would anybody measure/prove that?

That 12 hours means the closure has to go over two days?

I'd love to know how many claims have been made for this...
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 Poster: A snowHead
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queenie pretty please wrote:
@pam w, it's less of a problem here. Travel to a neighboring valley is relatively easy, most ski areas are reachable from the motorway or main access roads. But, there haven't been any 100% ski area closures either.


If you bought a pass for a specific resort rather than one for multiple resorts then it can be a problem.

Stubai Glacier was closed on 10th December.
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I expect to recover nothing as usually a bunny slope is open or another resort theoretically accessible by public transport. Practically it's such a tiny amount they compensate I'm not sure it would be worth the admin of a claim. Suck it up and recognise you've chosen a weather dependent obsession which means it giveth and it taketh away.
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I wouldn't expect any compensation and wouldn't go looking for it. I've spent enough days back home sat in front of snowgates waiting for them to open, only for the wind to pick up and they stay closed for the day. It's all part of playing in the mountains.
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We had this happen in Cervinia last season. The resort was closed for three days.

We got a certificate from the lift office to confirm the lifts where closed, the certificate was to be presented to our travel insurance company so we could recover some money.

Our excess was £150 so we didn't bother.

As said, you would expect the lift company would pay out as it's their responsibility (regardless of why the lifts don't run), but they offload the responsibility to your insurance.

Just one of those things with winter sports.
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Gyro wrote:


As said, you would expect the lift company would pay out as it's their responsibility (regardless of why the lifts don't run), but they offload the responsibility to your insurance.



I've heard it said that the rationale is in Europe that they are giving you a fairly hefty discount if you are buying a multiday ticket so in return you are accepting the risk that there may limited weather related openings on later days. If you want to avoid the risk you can buy day by day, which might be worth it if the weather forecast looks sufficently sketchy
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Gyro wrote:


As said, you would expect the lift company would pay out as it's their responsibility (regardless of why the lifts don't run), but they offload the responsibility to your insurance.



I've heard it said that the rationale is in Europe that they are giving you a fairly hefty discount if you are buying a multiday ticket so in return you are accepting the risk that there may limited weather related openings on later days. If you want to avoid the risk you can buy day by day, which might be worth it if the weather forecast looks sufficently sketchy


Yeah, I have no problem with it, but I thought I would throw something out there.

My thinking is, it's a winter, outdoor pastime, so at some point it's likely to go tits up.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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I seem to remember at the snowmageddon birthday bash in Arabba everything was closed for a couple of days (not the whole Dolomiti area though). Can’t remember if we got any money back or not.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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Gyro wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Gyro wrote:


As said, you would expect the lift company would pay out as it's their responsibility (regardless of why the lifts don't run), but they offload the responsibility to your insurance.



I've heard it said that the rationale is in Europe that they are giving you a fairly hefty discount if you are buying a multiday ticket so in return you are accepting the risk that there may limited weather related openings on later days. If you want to avoid the risk you can buy day by day, which might be worth it if the weather forecast looks sufficently sketchy


Yeah, I have no problem with it, but I thought I would throw something out there.

My thinking is, it's a winter, outdoor pastime, so at some point it's likely to go tits up.

A few years back at Christmas conditions were very ropey. The ticket office refused to let me but 6 day tickets so I went to Stubai instead. An hours drive each way but it ended up much better for it. I was grateful for their honesty regarding piste conditions and weather prospects.
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Had a one day closure last year in tigne and my insurance paid up £35 per pass..ischgl had a one day closure this week and was told that I would have to claim back through insurance but rep has called to say that crystal will refund so happy with that but would have preferred to ski..well maybe not in the conditions we had on closure day.
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That’s interesting MogulMonkey - we're in (loving) Ischgl but Inghams say try the lift company (who don’t refund ) or insurance. Your Crystal seem nicely generous!
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@paulmags, seems crystal have delivered.. I have the letter in my hands confirming a cheque will be issued.. time to get inghams to step up there after sales service..will be interested to see how you get on
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What about the other aspects of the travel insurance policy. You can get a policy for very little money for a week that includes ‘winter sports cover’, and I get one every year costs around €20....is there anyone out there is has ever actually had to use this insurance for anything other than lift pass refunds....say for a personal injury or lost baggage....? Would be interested to hear how the claims process worked out etc.
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t4tomo wrote:
I’ve had the lift company take my money, only to get up the gondola to discover they had closed all but 2 very short runs...


Australian lift companies are notorious for doing this, especially my home hill of Falls Creek. Refund? Nope, you are SoL.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Losing a day out of a 6 day ski holiday is expensive. It’s not unusual for the marginal cost of a holiday to be in the region of £200 per day and you are there to ski.

Certain resorts are particularly vulnerable to lift and piste closures. The payback may be powder skiing the next day, but if you are on a time budget a lost day or a day of severely restricted piste skiing may taint your impression of the reliability of An area for skiing.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Quote:

Certain resorts are particularly vulnerable to lift and piste closures.


Such as high-altitude resorts. They are more likely to have good snow, but also more likely to close in bad weather (high winds). Swings and roundabouts really.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Peter S wrote:
Losing a day out of a 6 day ski holiday is expensive. It’s not unusual for the marginal cost of a holiday to be in the region of £200 per day and you are there to ski.

Certain resorts are particularly vulnerable to lift and piste closures. The payback may be powder skiing the next day, but if you are on a time budget a lost day or a day of severely restricted piste skiing may taint your impression of the reliability of An area for skiing.


Yeah but if you want a reliable consistent sporting experience you should take up indoor bowls. Closures/whiteouts/insane crowds/ crappy surface conditions go with the territory - if you can't afford to bear the odd closed out day the sport probably isn't for you.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
.. - if you can't afford to bear the odd closed out day the sport probably isn't for you.


Well yes, which is why insurance for such things seems strange.

The "marginal cost" as mentioned may be £200, but you're also facing the opportunity cost of not working, which if you're my plumber is also a significant amount.
Plus it's a sunk cost: you've already lost it if you ski or don't ski.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Peter S wrote:
Losing a day out of a 6 day ski holiday is expensive. It’s not unusual for the marginal cost of a holiday to be in the region of £200 per day and you are there to ski.

Certain resorts are particularly vulnerable to lift and piste closures. The payback may be powder skiing the next day, but if you are on a time budget a lost day or a day of severely restricted piste skiing may taint your impression of the reliability of An area for skiing.


Yeah but if you want a reliable consistent sporting experience you should take up indoor bowls. Closures/whiteouts/insane crowds/ crappy surface conditions go with the territory - if you can't afford to bear the odd closed out day the sport probably isn't for you.


Agree.
If I get a full 6 days skiing in decent conditions from my weeks holiday (which we have pretty much every year for past 11 years) then I feel very lucky that weather gods have been on our side. It’s part of the risks. You can try to mitigate it by going to an area that has say a range of altitudes, so if foggy down low you can ski up high above the clouds; or if windy up high, ski in the trees down low, but you are in the lap of the gods and unfortunate if big storms come through like in A / CH of late closing off much of the pistes for a couple of days.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Peter S wrote:
Losing a day out of a 6 day ski holiday is expensive. It’s not unusual for the marginal cost of a holiday to be in the region of £200 per day and you are there to ski.

Certain resorts are particularly vulnerable to lift and piste closures. The payback may be powder skiing the next day, but if you are on a time budget a lost day or a day of severely restricted piste skiing may taint your impression of the reliability of An area for skiing.


Yeah but if you want a reliable consistent sporting experience you should take up indoor bowls. Closures/whiteouts/insane crowds/ crappy surface conditions go with the territory - if you can't afford to bear the odd closed out day the sport probably isn't for you.


Agree.
If I get a full 6 days skiing in decent conditions from my weeks holiday (which we have pretty much every year for past 11 years) then I feel very lucky that weather gods have been on our side. It’s part of the risks. You can try to mitigate it by going to an area that has say a range of altitudes, so if foggy down low you can ski up high above the clouds; or if windy up high, ski in the trees down low, but you are in the lap of the gods and unfortunate if big storms come through like in A / CH of late closing off much of the pistes for a couple of days.
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I’ve successfully claimed for closure a few times over my 30 years of skiing. It’s pretty much the least fraudulent claim you can make.

1. Had you bought a valid ticket for the day in question. Y/N
2. Have you got proof from the resort that the lifts were closed. Y/N

If Yes to both, then they should payout.

The only times I haven’t been able to claim were with DogTag insurance, who stated that their piste closure insurance was only for no snow, rather than too much or high winds (my fault as it was in the small print, but it hadn’t occurred to me that ‘piste closure’, would have restrictions). The second time was with Ski Club GB insurance, or rather their claim processors, who want so much personal financial information (credit cards, bank accounts etc), that it wasn’t worth the hassle and personal intrusion for £25, which I guess was the whole point of the exercise).

Btw: in Saas-Fee the village lifts don’t count in lift closures. Also, the locals have always been amazed that we could get lift closure insurance.
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Yes it can be a bit of a gamble.

Go high for more snow but risk poor weather and lift closures. Or go somewhere more sheltered but less less likely to have reliable off piste skiing.
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