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In Praise of Winter Tyres

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm currently watching a big Volvo 4x4 (an XC90?) failing to get up the access road from the building I'm in in Les Arcs. It's not too steep, and was cleared of snow just about an hour ago, but despite this the car is slipping sideways as the tyres fail to get any grip in the snow. Yesterday, in similar conditons the hire car I'm driving had no problem whatsoever in getting up the same little bit of road. The hire car I have this time is a Smart car (the four door version), so not really renowned for it's abilities in difficult driving conditions! The difference is that my hire car is shod with winter tyres, and I'm sure the Volvo has regular tyres. The difference in traction between the two types of tyre is obvious. If I needed confirmation that winter tyres are essential kit for driving to ski stations, I guess this comparision between a Volvo XC90 and a Smart ForFour is it!


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 4-03-06 6:47; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rolling eyes And 'standard' vehicles without winter tyres stand even less chance. Just like yesterday, when I had to stop for a big RWD Merc negotiating something like a 3° incline to the Bourg SM funicular (bottom station) virtually sideways on, with wheels spinning away, almost no grip.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I know I know my RWD (small!) Mercedes was absolutely hopeless this year even with snow chains on the back, it might have had some chance with a second set on the front I suppose. Winter tyres aren't really economical though unless you are resident or a very regular visitor.
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Can only agree that winter tyres are very good for resort conditions, perhaps out performing chains. The cars I have been in
recently have been a revelation.
There must be an unoffical changeover day in the alpes...!!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The smart (I think it is a Colt in wolves clothing) is not too bad on snow. The little smart with its micro wheels is better. Also remember that many 4x4 are bought by people who can't drive very well (they wouldn't by a useless gas guzzling 4x4 otherwise would they?). I disagree with Pete, your average small car is better than your average 4x4 shod with city tires because it carries less weight and has greater ground pressure. That's why the 4x4 Panda is better than other 4x4s in snow.

I've driven a rwd 525 in deep snow with chains, no problem. I'm not the best winter driver in the world (despite spending 6-8 months of the year driving in snow) but many people use far too much acceleration when it is not needed and have a habit of stopping directly over ice!
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davidof, Puzzled - I only said that a RWD without winter tyres is worse than a 4WD ?? At least, that's what I meant anyway! It depends greatly of the type of snow. This was wet slippy stuff - the driver wasn't doing anything especially wrong - he tried low revs, high revs, the lot. No traction whatever he did.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
davidof, That's probably the difference. I spend 6 - 8 days a year maximum driving in snow and am probably the worst at it in the world. Sad
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I can only agree with the foregoing posts! My 4 wheel drive car with intelligent 4 wheel drive control cannot cope with snow and the 'system' does not inderstand chains! Put a set of winter tyres on it and I can drive across ice without the car behaving differently. My mamouth 4 hour drive around the Lyon bypass in thick and falling snow last month was relatively stress free because my car never slid came out of line or lost control at all.
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I once drove over the Julier to St.Moritz in a VW Golf with summer tyres in a snowstorm. Ok I know it's not the most clever thing to do, but it wasn't my car and my GF had assured me that they were winter tyres and I didn't bother checking Embarassed It involved a lot of cursing and sliding around, but if you've ever been over the Julier you really have to be amazed that I made it at all. Ever since then I've driven a Golf in the mountains. Never had to use chains, even under the worst conceivable conditions. But I definitely do use winter tyres, and yes they do make a huge difference!
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boredsurfin, Out of interest what have you got? I was thinking about a Honda CRV or Toyota RAV when I change. But I think they both have "intelligent" 4WD also.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
BMW's are supposed to be crap in snow but at least they are predictable
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Mike Lawrie wrote:
I once drove over the Julier to St.Moritz!


Julier pass is a good run, I remember doing it in my Peugeot 405 2.0 GT - only had winter tyres on the front which caused some interesting sliding on corners which impressed the bird I was with... not.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
a lot of it has to do with tyre width (normal tyres) which float on the snow compact it under and then sit there spinning, a smaller car with narrower tyres cuts through the snow and gains grip of the harder service under neat.

I too use to drive a golf & a 205 in poor conditions back when the UK use to have real snow storms and both were excellent, I use to get by bigger cars on the hills no problem.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Colin B wrote:
boredsurfin, Out of interest what have you got? I was thinking about a Honda CRV or Toyota RAV when I change. But I think they both have "intelligent" 4WD also.


See lots of folk round here with Honda CRVs... they seem to be pretty awful in the snow but it may just be the drivers.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
davidof, Thanks, bet many of them are right hand drive.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I have a Merc (RWD) which is absolutely uselsss in the slightest bit of snow. I am taking over to our place in Samoens in April - hopefully the fantastic snow conditions will be confined to the mountains above Samoens by that time of year!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Colin B wrote:
davidof, Thanks, bet many of them are right hand drive.


Not at all, local folk but probably valleylubbers. The RAV looks more serious but maybe it is just looks I have no experience. My neighbour has a Suzuki 4x4 and promised to show me just how good it is - and he got stuck on a road I normally driver up with my wife's Panda.

My feeling is you've got to have good tyres on a 4x4 or the extra weight they carry makes them a liability on snow.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Got snowed in in Nethybridge (low lying village near to Aviemore) many years ago (those were the days, my friends.... sorry, that's another thread) and the only thing moving was a Citroen 2CV. Small = light and thin tyres not generating a 'snow-plough' effect are a potent combo. 4WDs on fats are useless by comparison - as Rob says above. And high ground clearance also helped the 2CV.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 4-03-06 9:44; edited 1 time in total
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I should have expected problems with my Mercedes (RWD coupe, low profile fat tyres) really, after all I did manage to get it stuck in snow on my own drive in Cambridgeshire (max altitude about 2 meters above sea level) a couple of years ago. I've already booked to go back to St Sorlin D'Arves agin next year and will be in the same car but it will be staying in St Jean de Maurienne with us taking the last 10 miles by taxi.
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JT wrote:
BMW's are supposed to be crap in snow but at least they are predictable


They are also useless in our gravelled car park!
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Colin B, I have a Jaguar X type. But previously an X-Trail which has a brilliant 4 wheel drive system with the added bonus of being able to set it yourself if you want to, or leave it to make it's own descision.
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boredsurfin,

Just don't boot it...!! Laughing
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
JT, Which the Jag or the X Tail

If I boot the Jag it frightens the life out of me Laughing
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boredsurfin,

I thought you had the BMW.... great fun as long as you don't take liberties.... but I wouldn't want to caught short in the mountains....
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JT, I stopped driving BM's when the drug dealers moved in wink

and I'am far too young for a Merc wink
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boredsurfin,

Agree that a Merc is an old man's car.... I just like cars that do what they say on the tin and do it well..
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Not if its a CLK thank you very much - try one....best car I have ever had (except in slippy stuff)
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
stevo_the_saddler wrote:
Not if its a CLK ....best car I have ever had


I think you need to try some more stevo wink
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Best car I ever had was a Standard Ensign Deluxe. If I could have it back now I would drive around in nothing else wink. (Except when it snows).
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Have an old e class merc estate with a set of summer yres and a set of wintertrac winter tyres. Has got us up to hochgurgl in loads of snow, les karellis in the same conditions. On the way up to hochgugl passed a stuck uk reg merc ml and a stuck BMW x5. Have not needed the chains yet, winter tyres were the best purchase we ever made for it. Why more uk motorists dont use winter tyres i have no idea, they are better in the rain and at temps under 7 degrees.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Winter tyres are a must they make a huge difference. I normally change over at the end of October at the latest since being caught out in my first year after a early heavy snowfall. My cars not to good in the snow (BM 5 series) so I need all the help I can!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
stevo_the_saddler, Very pleased you said that as thats what I drive Laughing
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
boredsurfin, JT, I'm neither old nor a man, and I drive a Merc. And I love it NehNeh
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Not all 4x4s are SUVs, you know. And this is not another post in praise of the 4x4 Panda...

Just get a Subaru. Proper (ie unintelligent) AWD. Low range box in the non-turbo versions. Not a truck. A bit thirsty, but then it is a 4x4. No bells and whistles, just a superbly engineered car that does what cars are supposed to do.

Easy Smile
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Stevo wrote:
Not all 4x4s are SUVs, you know. And this is not another post in praise of the 4x4 Panda...

Just get a Subaru. Proper (ie unintelligent) AWD. Low range box in the non-turbo versions. Not a truck. A bit thirsty, but then it is a 4x4. No bells and whistles, just a superbly engineered car that does what cars are supposed to do.

Easy Smile


Subarus are just fine but it's not true that low ratio is available in the non-turbo version or that the 4wd is in anyway unintelligent.
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ise,
Quote:

Subarus are just fine but it's not true that low ratio is available in the non-turbo version or that the 4wd is in anyway unintelligent.

Some Forester 5 speeds, and some Legacy 5 speed models have the low ratio option, and AFAIK no Imps Smile
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you can spec a low ratio option on the Audi Allroad i think too
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snowbunny, they do, I meant that some non-turbos don't have low ratio. I missed the word "only" before available Embarassed
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Funny - my impreza had low ratio......
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little tiger,
Quote:

Funny - my impreza had low ratio......

How old is it?
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