 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
I've booked 3 separate weeks skiing this year and as rentals in resort are coming out at about £350, I thought I might as well just buy a pair of ski's instead of throwing money away on rentals. I'm struggling a bit as I dont have much knowledge of the subject and one of the problems I'm having is that I'm overweight. I've seen people talk about selecting length of ski based on height, but I'd have thought weight was equally important if not more so. I reasoned that having say, a rocker ski, would be useless if someone of my weight flattened it out. Hope that makes sense?
My stats are 173cm/5'8 and 101kg/222lb . I'm broad shouldered anyway but I'm about 20kg above my correct weight. I'm losing weight actively at the moment so any ski I get, I'd like it to work for me when I'm back to normal weight also, if possible.
I was looking at all mountain ski's in the range of 160-170cm. Not sure if that is correct given my weight.
I have just begun to do parallel turns on gentle gradients. I also struggle a bit with left turns due to a hip issue which I'm having physio for, so I need the ski's to be a little forgiving.
I'd like the ski to be useful on both piste and off to the sides of the piste on powder days. I'd also like them to take me well into the intermediate skill level.
So, I'm not asking for much out of them.. 
Can anyone advise on a suitable ski? I'd be really grateful.
My boots are Salomon X Pro 2019 model, in case that matters for compatibility.
Thanks very much,
Martin
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi Martin. Welcome. I would advise renting for a while unless you see a really good deal. Don't wory about flattening rocker, they curve up at the end sections so extra weight in the middle will probably make them even more so 
A shop with a decent range should let you experiment and change your skis, especially if they think you may buy a pair. Often they will refund the weeks rental cost if you end up doing so. What works for one person may not work for another so trying a few skis and getting a feel for them really works. Also factor in the cost of bringing skis if you fly, 3 trips will cost you about £150 in airline baggage fees.
160cm for all mountain definitely sounds way to short for you, I'd say the skis should be about the same height as yourself and to give yourself a bit more volume underfoot think width wise mid 80mm's up to upper 90's. Remember, a wider ski will be better generally off piste, but will be harder to learn to carve on.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Welcome to the forum.
I'd go the same as above and say 175cm at 90mm width is a very good starting point for you to look at.
Shape wise to accomplish your skiing aims across a broad set of surface requirements, camber (arcing upwards underfoot) with rocker both ends gives a good combination with wide skill acceptance. The centre acts as shorter on piste ski, the rockered tip and tail become more active as you delve into deeper snow and support you more effectively.
Something like that shouldn't be overwhelmed at your starting point, but will remain really good as skill comes up and kgs go down.
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IME the cost of flying with skis isn’t that different to renting, so unless you’re driving it probably won’t save much money. I’d say if you’re only just parallel that you’re better off waiting before buying....but I also understand the attraction of shiny things and bought my own skis after not many weeks.
Weight isn’t necessarily as important as skiing style but I’d definitely say anything all mountain you need to be looking at least 170. Also if you look at twintips remember that they ski short
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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£350 for three weeks seems rather a lot. Have you checked out using snowbrainer and alpinresorts. If I have written them correctly they should produce auto linky’s which will give you discount codes.
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Are you driving or flying? If you're flying it's likely that renting will be the best option financially. If you're driving then buying might seem cheaper but you'd still have to factor in servicing costs, say £25 for a service after each week of skiing. If I was you I'd rent and go one size longer than they recommend for your height. Or go for the recommended length but get something rated for "expert" skiers as that'll be a bit stiffer.
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Just to add to the confusion....I'd go 175 - but 80-84 under foot, as you are still finding your feet and are likely to want a more piste orientated ski.
I would also hire, until you get a feel for what suits your style and ability.
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Hi all,
I think I got camber mixed up with rocker. On my last hire ski's when I stood on them I completely flattened them out, but of course, I knew no better so just went with them.... 
The driver here, as well as the money side of it is that I found with snowboarding I improved massively once I had my own board. It was night and day. I can't explain really why, but perhaps its a confidence thing. I just did plenty of research beforehand and it seemed to work, but could have been luck.
I'm making notes from the ski selection comments you've all made. It makes sense to me so I suppose thats a start on my journey of understanding.
In terms of transporting gear and the fee's, what I did with my snowboard was put all my winter gear into the snowboard bag and just travel with hand luggage, which means I didnt pay for checked baggage other than the snowboard, so was planning to do the same with ski's. That way I paid virtually the same as everyone else, but had the benefit of all my own clobber. That probably only works if you have a washing machine at the chalet though. Don't know about you, but I seem to get through tons of undies when on the mountain, fortunately not because I'm shitting myself, at least not frequently.
A massive THANK YOU for taking the time to help me out.
PS. Twin tips ski short, I understand why, I think. Should I consider twin tips if I'm not planning on using the park or is it only of benefit if riding switch?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Guys/girls, you are all suggesting I go longer, I'm guessing because of my weight I need the extra length to gain float (snowboard term?) on powder. Does that make them harder to turn though?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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a 170 twin tip v 170 standard ski, the twin tip has a shorter contact edge length with snow so skis like a shorter ski. Dont get to concerned with the term twin tips... lot of marketing involved.
Logic is to rent as the best skis for you just now will be different in 3 holidays time. But i am a sucker for new skis.......
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| Martin & Ami wrote: |
| PS. Twin tips ski short, I understand why, I think. Should I consider twin tips if I'm not planning on using the park or is it only of benefit if riding switch? |
It depends if you want to a)look cool b)spray people in the face with snow c)be cool
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You know it makes sense.
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| SnoodlesMcFlude wrote: |
| Martin & Ami wrote: |
| PS. Twin tips ski short, I understand why, I think. Should I consider twin tips if I'm not planning on using the park or is it only of benefit if riding switch? |
It depends if you want to a)look cool b)spray people in the face with snow c)be cool |
lol.
Sounds exactly like what we used to do at the ice rink in our hockey boots as teenagers. I think if I tried it now I'd look more like a tub of lard on a bungee.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I checked just now, £95 per week skis only. The beginner ski's are what I had the first time and they were quite spongy so I'm pricing on the intermediates. I do get why its being suggested, but its such a lot of money to potentially chuck down the drain when a decent pair of ex-demo ski's can be had for very little more. Dependent on selecting the right ones of course but I understand that I'm not really in a position to know what the right ones are. It's such a difficult decision.
Obergurgl is where i'm heading and it seems its expensive for just about everything but all the same, looks pretty awesome as a resort and got a deal I couldn't turn down.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Martin & Ami wrote: |
| Guys/girls, you are all suggesting I go longer, I'm guessing because of my weight I need the extra length to gain float (snowboard term?) on powder. Does that make them harder to turn though? |
- Piste Skis, with a narrower waste and a tighter turn radius, are easier to turn.
- A longer ski, with everything else being equal, are a bit harder to turn, but give a bit more stability and extra surface area
- Length depends on Ski Type, Weight, Ability, Speed and where you ski...and to a lesser degree, Height
- At your level, imo you need a ski that is just long/stiff enough to support your weight (and no longer)
- The early rise tip makes the ski a bit more forgiving and the more rocker there is, the shorter the ski feels.
These are the sort of skis I have in mind http://www.skiessentials.com/2018-ski-test?skis=rossignol-experience-84-hd
https://www.snowmagazine.com/ski-gear/955-skis/rossignol-experience-84-hd-2017-18
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 26-10-18 21:17; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just checked snowbrainer and not a lot cheaper for Obergurgl- £90.
And have to admit to having paid for a pair of those ex-demos myself  as we went to the ski test and rather liked them. They are to replace the pair we bought from Decathlon for £99.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Martin & Ami, I think most people do travel with just ski baggage, but weight restrictions can be a pain. I think £60-£70 would be normal, so there is a slight benefit to having your own skis...but of course you also have to service them. Don't get me wrong, I've currently got 5 pairs of skis and always take them, I just think that there isn't a huge benefit to it unless you specifically want to ski a certain thing (in my case something fat, soft and twin-tipped)
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So with my new found advice in hand. Ignoring price completely would the Whitedot Altum 94 in 167cm be a good choice? The next size up is 176cm.
I'm just trying to see if I've got the gist of what I'm being told other than the rental question, which I'm seriously stuck with. I dont like to fly in the face of all advice but I'm wondering if I could accomplish the same by demoing at a snowdome to get a feel for ski types, before committing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| SnoodlesMcFlude wrote: |
| @Martin & Ami, I think most people do travel with just ski baggage, but weight restrictions can be a pain. I think £60-£70 would be normal, so there is a slight benefit to having your own skis...but of course you also have to service them. Don't get me wrong, I've currently got 5 pairs of skis and always take them, I just think that there isn't a huge benefit to it unless you specifically want to ski a certain thing (in my case something fat, soft and twin-tipped) |
Hi Snoodles, yeah it can be a bit tight as its generally 15kg but if my wife and I are traveling to our friends chalet, we can get away with it as we can do laundry nightly if we wish. With 7.5kg hand baggage and the 15kg snowboard bag, we've always been OK and it does save quite a bit. I appreciate that it might be different for someone flying solo to a hotel, for example.
This time I'm going on a package (my first as it happens) and the extra for ski's was only £45. I thought that was reasonable considering I can fit two pairs in the bag, split the cost with my buddy.
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| Quote: |
I think I got camber mixed up with rocker. On my last hire ski's when I stood on them I completely flattened them out
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You are always going to flatten the camber when you stand on them. In fact it is your weight bending them into reverse camber (ie. even further than flat) that engages the edge and turns the ski.
I'd go with mid price intermediate rentals and go back and swap them a couple of times during the week to learn what you like. If you buy skis now, without knowing what you like or suits you, you risk being stuck on a pair that makes it difficult to progress - thinking that the problem is yourself!
The few quid you might save by buying early isn't worth buying skis that don't suit you and potentially reducing your enjoyment.
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As a very loose general principle I'd take off 10cm from rockered tip and tail skis to give a realistic "piste ski dimension".
So they will feel something like skiing a 166cm on flat piste if you went to176cm. I'd think the 167 are too short for what you want to do if you extend the view of where you think you'll end up with gaining experience.
They'll not overwhelm you right now though in my view.
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| Martin & Ami wrote: |
So with my new found advice in hand. Ignoring price completely would the Whitedot Altum 94 in 167cm be a good choice? The next size up is 176cm.
I'm just trying to see if I've got the gist of what I'm being told other than the rental question, which I'm seriously stuck with. I dont like to fly in the face of all advice but I'm wondering if I could accomplish the same by demoing at a snowdome to get a feel for ski types, before committing. |
The Asbo (unofficial, unsanctioned nickame) seemed to get good reviews at the EoSB, I'd have thought 176 would be the better choice for your height.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FWIW. I think that a narrower ski, with a turning radius of between 14m-16m, will be be much easier to get the feel of how a ski should work.
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| Tubaski wrote: |
| Quote: |
I think I got camber mixed up with rocker. On my last hire ski's when I stood on them I completely flattened them out
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You are always going to flatten the camber when you stand on them. In fact it is your weight bending them into reverse camber (ie. even further than flat) that engages the edge and turns the ski.
I'd go with mid price intermediate rentals and go back and swap them a couple of times during the week to learn what you like. If you buy skis now, without knowing what you like or suits you, you risk being stuck on a pair that makes it difficult to progress - thinking that the problem is yourself!
The few quid you might save by buying early isn't worth buying skis that don't suit you and potentially reducing your enjoyment. |
Tubaski, I understand what you're saying and your comments echo those of others too.
What I'm not understanding though, is if I rent lets call it Pair A. I ski a day and don't feel I'm doing very well so return and rent Pair B then repeat the same pattern. Forgive my ignorance here but how am I learning about what I like and don't like if I don't really understand the difference between them. Does that make any sense? I can't realistically spend each day trying new ski's, well i could, but a certain major french rental chain for example, didnt even have 6 different types that I'd be able to test as far as I could see.
I think the hire shops I've used must be very poor in all honesty, going by the comments here, because from what I saw, people were just bundled off with the first thing to hand after a couple of very basic questions and no real care was taken with anything. Thats how it looked and its why I'm a bit reluctant to hold out the hope that the hire shop would have what would be suitable for me, let alone actually let me switch between until I found it. The way it all felt was that customers were a bit of an inconvenience, if I'm honest. It left me really jaded about the whole hire experience.
To add to that, the helmets stank, the boots...well you dont want to know. If a global pandemic was to start, it would start in hired ski boots of that I'm sure. This isnt just one hire shop either, but 4 different ones by different companies over 6 seasons. I've never had a good experience of hire and not observed a member of my party having one either. The chap who owns the chalet we visited frequently, insists that the hire shops replace their equipment every season, but they dont. They might do for "locals" but I know for a fact that some of the snowboards they hire out are at least 6 years old, because I happened to be there the year they were very obviously new.
Thats why I sort of decided to put my stock into a pair of my own ski's, despite the risk. It flies in the face of all the advice given here and I totally understand the logic behind that advice, but the crucial factor in executing the advice is having a decent hire shop to begin with and I think I've lost my trust in them.
Does that make any sense at all?
By the way, you are all stars for putting up with my newbieness. I am really grateful to everyone.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Martin & Ami, as you may have gathered, my first pair were bought never tried and they were OK and certainly no worse than hire stuff I have had. We bought cheap, so they owe me nothing and helped me gain confidence again after some nasty knee injuries (only one of those from skiing all the others were playing hockey). So I get exactly where you are coming from. Just really shame that you didn’t decide ahead of the skitest as that would have given you great chance to try different ones, also shame you don’t feel you can’t wait for the next years one.
Good luck!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Martin & Ami, where are you doing your skiing and what package are you getting for rentals? In the past I've known people rent skis that have been fresh out the box, one time they even had to peel the manufacturers label off the base.
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To be honest I was exactly the same. End of first holiday (hooked on skiing) bought a pair of skis in austria, although they where pretty sh$t I never regretted it. I now usually take 2-3 quiver killer (share bindings) pairs every holiday and usually ski the same ski all holiday (whitedot directors). I wouldn't consider renting even for a weekend trip! There is a very strong logic argument to rent but not for me.
I have also been eyeing up the altums, probably not the best option for your level. Not seen any reviews yet.
One word of caution, last chalet I stayed in the host got a small kick back for every customer he put across the door....
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Fri 26-10-18 22:18; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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IMO. Spend money on Boots first...and put yourself in the hands of a good Bootfitter....and also, get a Helmet.
If you tell us what shop you could be hiring from, we should be able to give some suggestions to try, from its selection.
IMO. Before you get on a more off piste orientated ski (90mm+), you need to learn the basics, with some lessons, on a ski that is easier to get to carve.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| NickyJ wrote: |
@Martin & Ami, as you may have gathered, my first pair were bought never tried and they were OK and certainly no worse than hire stuff I have had. We bought cheap, so they owe me nothing and helped me gain confidence again after some nasty knee injuries (only one of those from skiing all the others were playing hockey). So I get exactly where you are coming from. Just really shame that you didn’t decide ahead of the skitest as that would have given you great chance to try different ones, also shame you don’t feel you can’t wait for the next years one.
Good luck! |
Hi Nicky,
I'm probably looking at getting some of last seasons if I do buy, so the skitests should be out there in the wild hopefully. If i chuck even £300 at a pair of ski's and they dont suit me completely, then I can bin them and still have paid the same as if I'd hired. In reality, they have resale value of sorts.
I think its becoming clear that I've just dealt with really crappy hire shops but what really gets me, is that two of them are serious national chains in France. I dont want to name them publically but I am certain everyone will have heard of them. The resort in question is a French focused small family resort and I'm wondering if that has something to do with it.
I went through this exact thing with boarding. Ended up buying my own on a whim after some research and never looked back. Got to a decent standard but as everyone I go with tends to ski, I was eventually converted.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
IMO. Spend money on Boots first...and put yourself in the hands of a good Bootfitter....and also, get a Helmet.
If you tell us what shop you could be hiring from, we should be able to give some suggestions to try, from its selection.
IMO. Before you get on a more off piste orientated ski (90mm+), you need to learn the basics, with some lessons, on a ski that is easier to get to carve. |
Hi there,
I've got some boots and they were properly fitted so I'm good on that front, at least as far as Im currently aware, but I'm confident in the fit. Have a helmet too which fits correctly. The ski's and bindings are the last part of the equation at the moment.
The resort I'm visiting next is Obergurgl and I've never been there before so I wouldn't have the first clue about where to hire from, except that they all seem to be around the same price, give or take a tenner. I've had a couple of ski lessons and plan to take more. I dont know if I'll ever be carving though, in truth. I have very inflexible ankles and it might be a problem. I'm recreational with a capital R.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nicky, yes, I have.
Ideally I'd like to select a pair from there but money isn't the primary motivator here as such, although obviously I dont want to be spending thousands on a pair of carbon Zai's. lol
Just not sure which ones on that list might be suitable. It's a lot to process. I'd not even considered doing this before this past week or two.
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@Martin & Ami,
From the way you are talking on here you strike me as a person who likes to research and one thing I think you should have picked up is that unless you are very lucky (or have done your research really well) if you buy skis to suit your current ability you will probably outgrown them by the end of your 3 weeks this year. If you manage to buy skis that stretch your current ability, then they will still be fun at the end of the season and help you progress. If you are unlucky you will pick which is difficult to ski with your current ability and will hold up your progression.
It might seem boring but basic skills are best perfected on the piste and more easily perfected with piste oriented skis.
When I was hiring I found no problem with hire shops as I would make a point of getting in early before they were busy and when they had plenty of choice, doing enough research beforehand to know what sort of ski I thought I wanted and talking to them. Drop the occasional small tip every time you change and all of a sudden premium skis become available at no extra charge.
My first purchase was the exact model that I had hired and loved on my previous ski trip and as they were then end of line paid about the same as 10 days hire for them. They lasted 4 years (weeks) before I outgrew them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So given what you have said... I would have thought the Dynastar Intense 8? At £240. They are piste skis not all mountain but you are also saying you are just starting to parallel and looking for something to take you into the Intermediate skiing. Personally the ones I am getting at the Intense 10’s.
Especially as you are looking at this as a few years not for life ski? It sounds like you aren’t quite ready for all mountain skis quite yet?
Edit to add: those are “female” skis. Not sure if you are Martin or Ami? Just you are half an inch taller than me...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Timc wrote: |
@Martin & Ami,
From the way you are talking on here you strike me as a person who likes to research and one thing I think you should have picked up is that unless you are very lucky (or have done your research really well) if you buy skis to suit your current ability you will probably outgrown them by the end of your 3 weeks this year. If you manage to buy skis that stretch your current ability, then they will still be fun at the end of the season and help you progress. If you are unlucky you will pick something which is difficult to ski with your current ability and will hold up your progression.
It might seem boring but basic skills are best perfected on the piste and more easily perfected with piste oriented skis.
When I was hiring I found no problem with hire shops as I would make a point of getting in early before they were busy and when they had plenty of choice, doing enough research beforehand to know what sort of ski I thought I wanted and talking to them. Drop the occasional small tip every time you change and all of a sudden premium skis become available at no extra charge.
My first purchase was the exact model that I had hired and loved on my previous ski trip and as they were then end of line paid about the same as 10 days hire for them. They lasted 4 years (weeks) before I outgrew them. |
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I'm very much on the same page as Timc....and is why I recommended the Experience 84s....which are narrow enough to feel turny On Piste, yet have enough width/profile, to dabble off to the side. They will see you through from Intermediate up to Advanced....and should be available to hire....and then buy, if they work for you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Timc wrote: |
@Martin & Ami,
From the way you are talking on here you strike me as a person who likes to research and one thing I think you should have picked up is that unless you are very lucky (or have done your research really well) if you buy skis to suit your current ability you will probably outgrown them by the end of your 3 weeks this year. If you manage to buy skis that stretch your current ability, then they will still be fun at the end of the season and help you progress. If you are unlucky you will pick which is difficult to ski with your current ability and will hold up your progression.
It might seem boring but basic skills are best perfected on the piste and more easily perfected with piste oriented skis.
When I was hiring I found no problem with hire shops as I would make a point of getting in early before they were busy and when they had plenty of choice, doing enough research beforehand to know what sort of ski I thought I wanted and talking to them. Drop the occasional small tip every time you change and all of a sudden premium skis become available at no extra charge.
My first purchase was the exact model that I had hired and loved on my previous ski trip and as they were then end of line paid about the same as 10 days hire for them. They lasted 4 years (weeks) before I outgrew them. |
Thats the difficulty I'm having Tim. Finding ski's that stretch my ability and that I wont outgrow in a season.
Nicky yes, thats pretty much the situation. I feel like this is a bit like a finger in the air once you get past the basics like length and stiffness for my weight? Nobody can give an exact answer because they dont know my body mechanics, ability or capacity to learn?
Would that sum it up?
I never expected so many replies, trying to get back to everyone as best I can.
I think the takeaway for me here is that I need something thats at least 170cm, stiffer than your average beginner ski and
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Scott scrapper 95 in 178cm.
Failing that, Scott punisher (crap name yeh ) in 175cm available via the "bay" from ski Bartlett. I was looking at these last Saturday when over there.
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FAQ
